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post #361 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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The entire building shakes, all ~10,000lbs of it.

Wouldn't really matter what screen I make, it would shake too; short of anchoring it to the ground with large metal cables and gluing the back of the screen with lead sheeting. biggrin.gif

Basically, the only way to stop the shaking is to turn it down biggrin.gif

This shaking is probably in-large why the bass is escaping as much as it does.

Looks like I may have to sell this place and build again. Ouch!
Even more beefy and secluded next time.

The problem from the begining is that I was working with an existing structure, rather than new one.
This room is about as good as a wood structure gets. From some quick measurements, the room and air distance is blocking 30-40db at 30hz.

I need it to block 70db at 30hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baniels View Post

Your screen is wobbling there, isn't it? I recall someone asked before about why you don't do a fixed AT screen. I don't remember your answer - maybe time to revisit that? Bigger screen, no wobble, and you could keep your CC tower.
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post #362 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 01:29 PM
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Dude, you're an animal.

With that said, are you really considering starting over?

If your whole building is shaking then it seems as though the outer walls are acting as massive bass radiators. lol. Perhaps building another building on the outside of your existing building.

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post #363 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

It's situations like yours that make me realize I have no chance in my current house of running any of the desired sub systems at anywhere near full volume without getting a knock on the door from the cops...
The lots around here aren't exactly tiny at 1/3 to 1/2 acre, but we are talking about subs with slightly above average firepower. smile.gif

I'm on 1/3 acre. I have 9 neighbors in a tic-tac-toe layout.

My house is closest at 60ft away.

The other 9 are as follows:
62ft
73ft
83ft
86ft
92ft
96ft
126ft
137ft
136ft

Beyond that it would have to travel out to 150-300ft to impact the next radius-ring. (Which would be another 10 houses.)
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post #364 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, that was with 25kW out of 33kW in 2-ch mode.
Movie-mode is 35kW.
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post #365 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's some pictures of the measurements of the power draw of my system at idle in movie-mode (35kW's + projector).
All of that is converted to heat of course.





Movie-Mode @ idle: About 10.75 amps, or 1290watts RMS.




2-ch Mode @ idle: About 9.5 amps, or 1140watts RMS.




Power Draw at -30db in 2-ch Music-Mode: 12.5amps or 1500watts RMS.

So as you can see, unless my heater and popcorn maker is running and all lights AND I'm pumping at max volume, I ain't anywhere near 200amps. (and neither are you.)

The heater consumes 15amps RMS BTW, and the popcorn maker is probably 12.

I tried to pop the sub-panel breaker but I couldn't (thus far biggrin.gif).

There is nothing on these legs that isn't theater related, it's a dedicated theater sub-panel.
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post #366 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 06:11 PM
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Cool video. Nice to see what I might be pulling from the wall. PLUS I am looking at about 1/3 the power consumption as you. So that should be easy on my wallet.smile.gif
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post #367 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I purchased 15lbs of theater popcorn today.
It's really good stuff, just like at the movie theaters.
You can buy it in Seattle Washington.

#511248
http://www.harlans.ca/images/Promos/Harlans_2009.pdf
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post #368 of 747 Old 03-25-2013, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rader View Post

Lightning fast on this build, nice work! Have you been doing everything yourself?

Not everything but darn near. The flooring and roofing was done by contractors, as was the 200amp main lines.

The rack, the columns, the fabric, the AV equipment, popcorn maker, diffusers, acoustical panels, lights, trim, paint, green-gluing, the audio wiring, the insulating and all associated purchases, the projector mount, the projector duct/fan, was all me.

and most of all, the CLEAN UP eek.gif
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post #369 of 747 Old 03-26-2013, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like I blew up one of my Dayton 18's.
The cone detached from the coil (or something), I'll have to take it apart and see if it is fixable (doubt it). frown.gif
Looks like I blew it 7 months ago and I didn't notice until I went to go hook it up today.
I think it's a manufacturer defect because the other 3 are working just fine and were fed the same signal, dual series.

Just one more thing added to my to-do list.
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post #370 of 747 Old 03-26-2013, 01:14 PM
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slightly off topic, but...

I saw that a few of your subs are pro subs(?) What are they, how do they sound, and what made you go with them? I haven't seen pro subs used in an HT environment other than your's so it peaked my interest.
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post #371 of 747 Old 03-26-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domanskipaul View Post

slightly off topic, but...

I saw that a few of your subs are pro subs(?) What are they, how do they sound, and what made you go with them? I haven't seen pro subs used in an HT environment other than your's so it peaked my interest.

They are Dayton 18's, they sound good, I purchased them because they are loud and efficient above 40hz, unlike "car" subs which just overheat.
You really need both types of subs to get the best of both worlds.
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post #372 of 747 Old 03-26-2013, 02:35 PM
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Just move out into the sticks a little ways. I have the same neighbor problem. I have an open lot on each side of my house- approx 150 feet or so on each side to the next house. Both neighbors say that I shake their houses sometimes. They have been very understanding and I never run things loud late at night so it hasn't been an issue.
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post #373 of 747 Old 03-26-2013, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hulk Smash on 27kW. Got movie-mode working now.


Transformers 3 - Portal Collapse on 27kW


Transformers 3 - Intro on 27kW


This is with tri-channeled subwoofers (Left Bass and Right Bass and LFE Bass).

These videos were uploaded using this Cat6 cable. YAY Theater has 1Gigabit now.
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post #374 of 747 Old 03-27-2013, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's REW charts of the new theater.
There's a problem at 87hz, other than that it looks alright.

(This is with 8 subs).



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post #375 of 747 Old 03-27-2013, 01:38 AM
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Holy smokes whats going on there? Is that in crossover or what?

I know you have some pro drivers too, how do you have them set as far as crossovers? Are you using the pro subs for the L and R you mention? Looks like something at 40-50hz with pro subs switched from others too possibly?

Other than that spot it's awesome!!! Wish my graph was that smooth without major EQ. Will add more drivers to optimal placements eventually and may smooth it out.
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post #376 of 747 Old 03-27-2013, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't powered on the two EP4000's yet.
I should probably do that and rewire the subs.
It would give me more consistent channel technology, more discrete channels, and more total-power of course.

Looks like I may have to boost the SPL on the PA subs and EQ downward any peaks to make it more level above 80hz.
If that doesn't fix it I may have to play with sub placement next.

I've tried a bunch of phase, delay and XO settings as-is and it just makes the graph less-smooth or worse, on average.

I wish I had a USB or 120v power mic, I hate depleting batteries.

All sweeps were done in 2-ch music-mode.
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post #377 of 747 Old 03-27-2013, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Here's some pictures of the measurements of the power draw of my system at idle in movie-mode (35kW's + projector).
All of that is converted to heat of course.





Movie-Mode @ idle: About 10.75 amps, or 1290watts RMS.




2-ch Mode @ idle: About 9.5 amps, or 1140watts RMS.




Power Draw at -30db in 2-ch Music-Mode: 12.5amps or 1500watts RMS.

So as you can see, unless my heater and popcorn maker is running and all lights AND I'm pumping at max volume, I ain't anywhere near 200amps. (and neither are you.)

The heater consumes 15amps RMS BTW, and the popcorn maker is probably 12.

I tried to pop the sub-panel breaker but I couldn't (thus far biggrin.gif).

There is nothing on these legs that isn't theater related, it's a dedicated theater sub-panel.

You are reading off of the OHM scale, not the Amp scale. The outer scale is the Amps. When the dial on the meter is set to 600, you use the outer scale reading in hundreds. When dial on the meter is set to 60, you use the next scale down that reads by 10's. When the scale is set to 6 amps, you still use the scale that reads by 10's, you just knock off a zero. So where you said 10.75 amps, it is 5.25 amps. Where you listed 9.5 amps, it is 4.43 amps.

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post #378 of 747 Old 03-27-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

You are reading off of the OHM scale, not the Amp scale. The outer scale is the Amps. When the dial on the meter is set to 600, you use the outer scale reading in hundreds. When dial on the meter is set to 60, you use the next scale down that reads by 10's. When the scale is set to 6 amps, you still use the scale that reads by 10's, you just knock off a zero. So where you said 10.75 amps, it is 5.25 amps. Where you listed 9.5 amps, it is 4.43 amps.

That's how I was doing it. I was doing it correctly. wink.gif
Additionally I was summing both legs, -120v and +120v. It's a 240v service.
You would be correct though... if it was only a single leg 120v service, but it's not. wink.gif
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post #379 of 747 Old 03-27-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

That's how I was doing it. I was doing it correctly. wink.gif
Additionally I was summing both legs, -120v and +120v. It's a 240v service.
You would be correct though... if it was only a single leg 120v service, but it's not. wink.gif

I should have paid more attention to the leg that you had it clamped around. I just looked at the meter and the readings, you posted. Sorry.

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post #380 of 747 Old 03-28-2013, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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New REW chart. Much better. I can live with that.
It took about 17 EQ points.

Haven't enabled the EP4000's yet, and I still don't know what is going on at 90hz.
(The subwoofer positions haven't changed, they are still in the original placement.)

Before:


After:
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post #381 of 747 Old 03-28-2013, 08:05 PM
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Nice looking graphs! biggrin.gif
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post #382 of 747 Old 03-28-2013, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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post #383 of 747 Old 03-29-2013, 04:42 AM
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Wow, nice build! I'll have to do some outside measurements once I get my second LLT sub built. Here in Germany the houses are of a cinder block contruction, so I'd imagine most of the escaping bass is going out my window, which has about 6-8" of mineral wool stuffed into the opening. Has anybody considered cinder block walls to keep bass in? I'm not sure how much cinder blocks cost, but I'd imagine after all the blocks, rebar, and possibly even concrete fill, it would be pretty expensive...
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post #384 of 747 Old 03-29-2013, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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First victim killed already. Damn, that didn't take long. eek.gif

Shook to death. How to rectify the problem? [Turn it down, right? biggrin.gif]

Got the first EP4000 hooked up, 27kW in music-mode now.
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post #385 of 747 Old 03-29-2013, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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For the first time in history, I reached the clones full power. Up until now, in all my previous videos, I hadn't taken it beyond the half way point.



Somehow I dreamt it would be louder... but meh redface.gif

Oddly enough, my system was only drawing 2400 REAL-RMS Watts from the grid.
This was with 14 channels of amplification out of 22 in my rack. (27kW vs 35kW)
The gear is not 100% efficient either so... there you go.
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post #386 of 747 Old 03-29-2013, 08:34 PM
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Just saw your "8 subs, 25kW. Speechless. Nuff said" video eek.gif No wonder your house is breaking biggrin.gif
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post #387 of 747 Old 03-30-2013, 03:02 AM
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I got a box of 30 PAR20 halogen bulbs. Anytime I forget to turn mine off before blasting it, there are casualties. These are mounted in the ceiling too. I'm going to swap to LED bulbs when I run out
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post #388 of 747 Old 03-30-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I got a box of 30 PAR20 halogen bulbs. Anytime I forget to turn mine off before blasting it, there are casualties. These are mounted in the ceiling too. I'm going to swap to LED bulbs when I run out

Good to know, I should go that direction too. The halogens get stupid hot, it's no wonder bad things happen with them; everything becomes fragile at 400 flipping degrees!
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post #389 of 747 Old 03-30-2013, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I raided parts-express again. The ever expanding list of things that needs to be built, fixed, or made better.

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post #390 of 747 Old 03-30-2013, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Let's try something more exotic shall we? I bet you $20,000 that BB doesn't have this one on their no-fly list! ha tongue.gifbiggrin.gif


Ah... such 1st-world problems we must deal with!
Meanwhile... in Syria and Ethiopia and other such ...ia's and ...stan's!!! eek.gif

You're Chinese...?


Sorry, just started reading this thread and that vid completely threw me off. Haha.
Sounds absolutely stunning.

Edit:
On another note. Would it not be better to use something like sand for sound insulation?
The point being to convert acoustic energy into mechanical energy.
I thought it is much easier to transmit low frequency energy through solid material than through sand, example being how whales and elephants communicate over long distances.

Have you tried decoupling your subs from the floor using something like this: Subdude?
Weren't these all the rage on AVS for a while?

Edit 2:
Looks like my intuition is correct after doing a bit more research.
Check this out:
More info here http://acousticsfirst.info/
Notice how they use sand for isolation.

Check out this article by Ethan Winer: DIY Bass Traps


For sound isolation, the goal is loose material, not rigid material. Rigid material only helps to transmit the energy.


STC ratings are good for higher frequencies. They do not do much for lower frequencies, which is what you are having trouble with.
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