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post #451 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 06:22 PM
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I don't blame you about your friend, however, coming to this thread and making a comment about the OP's speakers in a negative way is not very cordial. He has put lots of work into his room. Just becuase he chooses to put foam everywhere does not mean everyone who buys those speakers needs to.

Believe us, we know about directivity speakers, I have owned quite a few. I owned a similar speaker to the SEOS design and still own a T8LP which is not in use. I am using horn speakers in a line array.
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post #452 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Don't own B&W, just curious as to your reasoning.

Not a speaker guru myself, but im sure to you'd still need an acoustic panel with SEOS speakers to remove side reflections. It may cut down on dispersion to far off to the sides, sound waves are still sound waves and will bounce and reflect.

My buddy can't or more correctly WON'T use any acoustic panels. He values aesthetics first and foremost. So I am pushing him towards a directivity based design for his HT system for all the reasons they are better.

More even sound stage - His HT is used for weekly family movie nights. There are 4+ people watching every time.
"Lessoned" need for room treatments due to less energy bouncing around.
Directivity usually equals compression driver - Dynamics capability of Comp driver vs dome.
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post #453 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I don't blame you about your friend, however, coming to this thread and making a comment about the OP's speakers in a negative way is not very cordial. He has put lots of work into his room. Just becuase he chooses to put foam everywhere does not mean everyone who buys those speakers needs to.

Believe us, we know about directivity speakers, I have owned quite a few. I owned a similar speaker to the SEOS design and still own a T8LP which is not in use. I am using horn speakers in a line array.

Yes I realize what you know, and was surprised I was getting flack for my opinion....WHICH I WAS ASKED FOR BY SHADY. "I would love to know...."

I realize the OP decided a hairpiece was exactly what his speaker need...I never even questioned it...I merely stated it because I was going to send a pic of it to my buddy who might in-turn post it in whatever audiophool forum he himself has been reading...I wanted the OP to know that if he sees a pic of his system floating "further" around the web...I may have contributed...
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post #454 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

No worries, it overlaps the frame and gravity does the rest.

Yeah, GreenGlue is not a bonding agent.
It would be good in a multi-layer full-range box, but not a sub box (bass is below it's effective range).

Trying to glue sheets of drywall together is just a bad idea period. It would only glue the paper together, which is a very weak bond.
Adhesing MDF's together is a lot stronger of a bond, but GG is the wrong stuff to be using for a wood-glue supplement; (and shouldn't be used together).

It takes GG 4 hours of being exposed to direct airflow to even START drying.
GG is "sort of" an adhesive... but it's not nearly as strong as glue and it takes literally two weeks to adhese; it's like very-slow drying latex.
Glue will become hard within 24hrs and some super-glues just 30 minutes, but GG remains a soft gel compound forever.

Gluing drywall (paper to studs) works very well. If you want your drywall not to ever rattle, then glue and screw it in place.

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post #455 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

If you dont mind I may use a screenshot one of those last two vids when explaining to my buddy why he doesn't want B&W w/dome tweeters and why he does want a SEOS.

Well if the SOES sounds anything remotely close to this, then no thanks. Based on my limited exposure to horns, I have yet to be convinced of their superiority.



The B&W's sound very high quality to me (if you damp the backwave), better than the output of my Sennheiser HD headphones in many ways, and better than every other speaker I have listened to to-date.

I wish I could hear this SEOS speaker you speak-of so that I could formulate a better opinion of what it can/can't do.

My videos sound pretty good (to me) on my Sennheiser HD headphones, although I will say that my mic tends to make things sound plastic-e and imparts a echo-effect to the acoustics (even though my room is like 50% anechoic).
In my louder videos, the subwoofers clip the mic quite often.
My mic rolls off the highs above 16khz and the lows below 30hz, almost a brick wall. Where as in-person the subs go to ~6hz (for example).
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post #456 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 07:32 PM
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That video is also not a very fair comparison. One speaker had proper acoustics with it and the other had none. We're they both in stereo? Comparing one speaker is not a very good way to test speakers, in mono that is. One more thing, that peavy is probably not I high quality horn speaker like others have mentioned.
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post #457 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That video is also not a very fair comparison. One speaker had proper acoustics with it and the other had none.
Not to mention that one carried a $5k price tag and the other $300.

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post #458 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Status Update: I just purchased the Extreme Reference 1 preamp today.
Should be here by next Friday.

I'm hanging with the Big Boys now! McIntosh, Classe, Bryston etc to name a few. biggrin.gif

Can't wait!!! That is a HUGE upgrade for me (and just about anyone for that matter).

My SNR will be 10-20db better in the highs and the subs will get ~20-50db better as well. eek.gif As I said HUGE.
Also I'll go from 7hz to 4hz will 10db less rolloff (maybe even 3hz capable).

Can't wait to see what that thing sounds like. Like how much better will it be Exactly?
It's been 3 years since I've upgraded my up stream.

I used to have a Yamaha HTR, than an RX, then a Rotel RSP, then a Emo UMC-1... and now finally the XSP-1.
Each one was worth its weight in gold as far as an improvement in SQ goes.

I'm sure my B&W's will love it, as they tend to be very sensitive to the smallest deviations in quality.
Like... never EVER even THINK of powering it with a best-buy type AVR, they aren't nearly good enough... the B&W 800's will expose it for the garbage it is. (In my experience anyway...)
The B&W's are brutal in that regard, to no real fault of the speaker, that is the nature of Hi-Fi: to be brutally-true to the source. (But yeah, they aren't the PERFECT speaker, like all things, they have their flaws too.)
Quote:
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Not to mention that one carried a $5k price tag and the other $300.

I paid $1200, not $5000.
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post #459 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 08:46 PM
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What is an XSP-1? That peavy is still a cheap horn speaker. There are many horn speakers better. You can't group all horn speakers because of it. I am not trying to convince you but it is about the same mentality of listening through computer speakers from these forums and deciding if something sounds good or not, like your videos or mine for that matter which I used my phone to record.
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post #460 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

What is an XSP-1?

It's a pure stereo hard-wire analog-only, fully balanced, pre-amp, of arguably world-class quality.
aka Extreme Stereo Reference Preamp-1.

It has no EQ, no DSP, no digital NOTHING.
It's a pure analog-only 2-channel device.

This will feed my pro-amps and hi-fi amps DIRECTLY, hence the crazy good SNR.
No Y-cables, or extra external conversion boxes needed (it does RCA to XLR conversion itself).

This makes my BFD and UMC-1 redundant for 2-ch music-mode, still need the UMC-1 for HDMI conversion to analog but I can throw my BFD in the trash now.




I'm more excited about this device than upgrading to quad LMS's. No joke.
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post #461 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 11:21 PM
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I understand the upgrade but how will you run LCR when watching movies?
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post #462 of 747 Old 04-10-2013, 11:48 PM
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Scott,
You were wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

I actually LOL'ed

He was half right...

Oh, I know snark when I see it. tongue.gif

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post #463 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 06:04 AM
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You should try using some good horns sometime, not the low end peaveys.
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post #464 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 08:27 AM
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BassthatHz, you should drop a measely $400 to build a pair of the Jeff Bagby Designed SEOS 12 Fusions. If you don't like those, your not out too much. smile.gif DIY sound group sells the CNC cut cabinets even.

Sweet setup though. I've been thinking about trying to make my own diffusers, did you have any specific plans you followed, and does it make a big difference? I know my wife would be thrilled.
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post #465 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I understand the upgrade but how will you run LCR when watching movies?
It's simple holic. Once I explain the wiring configuration to you, it will be obvious. As follows:

I put the XSP in the rack, and switch the wiring from the left and right amp connections into the HT Bypass inputs on the XSP-1 (more or this in a bit);
I then switch the existing 2-ch LR inputs from the UMC to the XSP input #1, the center channel output continues to be connected as-is, that is the center out directly into the center amplifier.

I then connect the left and right output on the XSP to the previous left/right amp connections.
The XLR outs on the XSP-1 goes into the pro-amps (daisy chained together in a circle).

Therefore the UMC only gets powered on when movie-mode is needed (for HDMI decoding), otherwise the 2-ch analog goes into the XSP.

When in HT Bypass mode, the XSP is a direct-wire pass-thru, bypassing any additional preamp transistors or gain leveling volume knob (unlike inputs #1 & #2).

The XSP also has a second pair of outputs, sub L & R, which are XO-defeatable (thus running full-range) acting as a second set of identical L+R XLR outputs. My Hi-Fi amps are RCA only, so I don't need to go that far, I can just use the RCA for that and the XLR for the pro-amps; but for those that need to, it is there. (Or if you like running subs higher than 200hz or whatnot.)

It supports XLR to XLR, XLR to RCA, RCA to XLR and RCA to RCA; thus both RCA and XLR outputs are always-active and identical (unless muted that is biggrin.gif).
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post #466 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

You should try using some good horns sometime, not the low end peaveys.

Seriously. Would be a bigger eye opener than these "high end" electronics, imo.

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post #467 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 11:07 AM
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Seriously. Would be a bigger eye opener than these "high end" electronics, imo.

...something something cordial something...SNARKY!
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post #468 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 11:20 AM
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Umm. Okay. confused.gif

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post #469 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 11:39 AM
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Umm. Okay. confused.gif

It was supposed to be funny...Man, I cant win this week.
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post #470 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 11:40 AM
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Gluing drywall (paper to studs) works very well. If you want your drywall not to ever rattle, then glue and screw it in place.

What kind of glue?
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post #471 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 11:49 AM
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It was supposed to be funny...Man, I cant win this week.

Ah. Post needed some smiley's. wink.gif

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post #472 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 12:31 PM
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What kind of glue?

Drywall adhesive. Several companies make this: http://www.liquidnails.com/products/wall-adhesive-DWP24

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post #473 of 747 Old 04-11-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

It's simple holic. Once I explain the wiring configuration to you, it will be obvious. As follows:

I put the XSP in the rack, and switch the wiring from the left and right amp connections into the HT Bypass inputs on the XSP-1 (more or this in a bit);
I then switch the existing 2-ch LR inputs from the UMC to the XSP input #1, the center channel output continues to be connected as-is, that is the center out directly into the center amplifier.

I then connect the left and right output on the XSP to the previous left/right amp connections.
The XLR outs on the XSP-1 goes into the pro-amps (daisy chained together in a circle).

Therefore the UMC only gets powered on when movie-mode is needed (for HDMI decoding), otherwise the 2-ch analog goes into the XSP.

When in HT Bypass mode, the XSP is a direct-wire pass-thru, bypassing any additional preamp transistors or gain leveling volume knob (unlike inputs #1 & #2).

The XSP also has a second pair of outputs, sub L & R, which are XO-defeatable (thus running full-range) acting as a second set of identical L+R XLR outputs. My Hi-Fi amps are RCA only, so I don't need to go that far, I can just use the RCA for that and the XLR for the pro-amps; but for those that need to, it is there. (Or if you like running subs higher than 200hz or whatnot.)

It supports XLR to XLR, XLR to RCA, RCA to XLR and RCA to RCA; thus both RCA and XLR outputs are always-active and identical (unless muted that is biggrin.gif).

Yeah. I knew there were options for you. Just wanted the breakdown. I saw the HT mode on the rear of the xsp and wondered if it did something like you confirmed.

The reviews on that thing are great.

Thanks for the breakdown.
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post #474 of 747 Old 04-24-2013, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Clone did 110 Volts RMS @ 17hz into 4-ohms into my 21's. Hot damn.



Still not at xmech yet. The 21's are very power hungry; as you can see eek.gif
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post #475 of 747 Old 04-24-2013, 10:39 PM
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Ummmmmm where did you get that 4 ohms from ??!?!?!!?
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post #476 of 747 Old 04-25-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Ummmmmm where did you get that 4 ohms from ??!?!?!!?
That's the nomial value it is wired as. Not sure about at THAT particular frequency, it could be higher.
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post #477 of 747 Old 04-25-2013, 11:28 AM
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Is that a FTW-21 or the Mael-X?

How does the 21" compare to the LMS Ultra?

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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post #478 of 747 Old 04-25-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
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That's the nomial value it is wired as. Not sure about at THAT particular frequency, it could be higher.

Unfortunately a speaker load is very reactive, calculating power like that is pretty meaningless.
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post #479 of 747 Old 04-25-2013, 12:25 PM
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winisd shows around 17hz, it is about 3.9, so probably good enough for government work.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #480 of 747 Old 04-25-2013, 01:01 PM
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What about the amps. How did you measure the amperage?
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