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post #1 of 747 Old 10-27-2012, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is what I'm starting with. This has to be beefed up significantly.


For this one, I was thinking of removing all windows and using furring channels on all 5 sides with sonoclips, DD/GG/MDF with a backing of acoustimat rubber VB, Roxul and then R-20. Dricore and padded carpet on the floor.
Single studded 2x4 until spring time, and then if need-be, beefed up to double-studded and/or another DD/GG/MDF and/or with cinderblocks.

Basically, I'm trying to contain 100% of the bass... ideally / if possible biggrin.gif

The slab is currently 20x16ft, but I'll be adding another 8ft to the front, and upgrading the 50amp to a 100amp run.
It will have an amp rack, projector hood, AC, wall heaters, track lighting, and a security alarm.

I was thinking of possibly making my own 400lb exterior soundproofed security-door, and then having another inner sliding-glass door; if need be... one of these: http://www.soundproofwindows.com/recording_studio_doors.html

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post #2 of 747 Old 10-27-2012, 06:24 PM
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Well, if you consider double 5/8" drywall damped doesn't even contain 80hz...if you want to contain 10hz you'll need to at least go to 8 times the thickness to get equal results....and it still won't contain 100% of 10hz. ...and that's if it is a linear function. So figure 1.25"x8=10" thick at least. A thread on the dedicated HT forum would get you more info.

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post #3 of 747 Old 10-27-2012, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Andreas, How did you figure those numbers?

By my calculations, that would already give me 7.7inches of top-notch high-STC material it has to work its way through. (That's not too shabby.)

It's not JUST two 5/8's of plain vanilla Drywall...but rather WITH sonoclips and GG, and 3/4 MDF with a backing of acoustimat, and the Roxul, and the R-20 and the exterior plywood, and the siding; and then it has to go through 5ft of air, a hardwood fence, and then another 60ft of air, and then (usually) through the external walls of someone's house, before they can hear it.

The door is usually the weakest point for a self-contained structure, that's why I'm leaning towards going a little bit fancy with it and maybe even the inner glass door.

I'm fairly certain nothing above 300hz would get out of the room. It's the 20-300hz band that humans can hear fairly easily (and get very annoyed with) that has me most worried about.


Here's an example of the level of bass it has to be able to stop, except with the other 4 channels going as well smile.gifeek.gif
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post #4 of 747 Old 10-28-2012, 01:42 AM
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mass is your friend. a thick concrete barrier all around will do what you want.

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post #5 of 747 Old 10-28-2012, 06:01 AM
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The FG, clips, double wall, accoustimat and sealing will help contain mostly the high frequencies. The low frequencies will just shake the whole structure...they are not airborne like high freqs. Think of a ported sub or a rotary sub's chamber. To pass low freqs they have to be big. What stops the structure from shaking? Mass. I am not sure why stiffness doesn't come into play other than it will increase the resonant frequency...and supposedly you want to lower it. Below or at that frequency the walls will just shake and transmit low freqs freely.

If I were to do it all over again and go for some real ULF isolation I would look into solid concrete walls not touching the structure's walls. You wouldn't need clips, GG, accoustimat, but you'd need to hire someone to pour the concrete....and then do a solid concrete ceiling (also THICK). Mind you, I don't know if this would be the way to go....I just would look into the option. You'd need some room height to spare also.

You are right about the door. Best is two communicating doors. Since the STC is a log function having a door at 30 db and the walls at 60db mean a room at 40 db depending on the ratio of room to door area.

I think there is probably a reason why these types of rooms cost millions of $ and are usually located underground! You really should consult with Ted or Dennis if you want to do it right...they are experts and will get you closer to your goal while avoiding spending money on something that wont work.

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post #6 of 747 Old 10-28-2012, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like many layers of iron sheets would be the way to go, or rebar filled blocks... and cork would be a very bad thing. biggrin.gif

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post #7 of 747 Old 10-28-2012, 02:25 PM
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The good thing about sand, is it remains somewhat soft/fluid and more able to convert vibrations into heat as opposed to hard/dense objects.

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post #8 of 747 Old 10-28-2012, 02:47 PM
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By far the most cost effective is masonry block wall construction filled with either concrete or sand. Poured concrete is great if you have a hookup that can handle the molds and pouring at a good price.

Looking at that pick, since there is an existing outer structure and siding you're talking about an inner wall. How much room inside can you spare? An 8" block spaced from the existing framing an inch or so should do the trick. Gonna need a serious ceiling too though. Either solid performed slab ceiling or something deep/rigid enough to support several layers of bonded materials.

For ulf, you want both mass and stiffness.

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post #9 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Basically, I'm trying to contain 100% of the bass... ideally / if possible biggrin.gif

Whatever you come up with, make sure you have a plan for ventilation. If you get it tight enough to keep the bass in, you'll need to provide a way to get fresh air in/stale air out or you won't be able to use the room.

I second the suggestions on posting to the dedicated HT forum. There are lots of knowledgeable people over there when it comes to sound containment.

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post #10 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 12:52 PM
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Dig hole right beside structure. Put structure in said hole. Pour additional concrete around structure in the hole. Bury structure with storm shelter type steps to access main entrance. Done

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post #11 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Looks like many layers of iron sheets would be the way to go...
Zinc and iron. Start collecting engine blocks and pennies to melt down! biggrin.gif
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Whatever you come up with, make sure you have a plan for ventilation. If you get it tight enough to keep the bass in, you'll need to provide a way to get fresh air in/stale air out or you won't be able to use the room.
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Dig hole right beside structure. Put structure in said hole. Pour additional concrete around structure in the hole. Bury structure with storm shelter type steps to access main entrance. Done
Yup. Build it underground with reinforced concrete, zinc and iron walls. Tell the neighbors your building a zombie apocalypse shelter. They'll believe that before they believe it's to keep LF in.
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post #12 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 01:08 PM
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Level that structure and build using insulated concrete forms. The toughest part will be the ceiling. Adding mass there is the toughest. You might be stuck with multiple layers of DW and GG. I would suggest talking to an expert to be honest. You will be spending a good chunk of money so you might as well bring in someone who has experience with something this crazy.
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post #13 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 02:26 PM
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I was thinking, wouldn't he want something that isn't too dense in order to absorb the waves? It just occurred to me that back in the 90's when I was into competition car audio (when JL was cutting their teeth), I had a nasty problem with the hatch on my Escort vibrating like mad from 4 12W1's. No amount of Dynamat helped and the back of the car sounded like it was going to fall off, despite it being an Escort. I ripped all the plastic interior panels off and filled every cavity with with Great Stuff expanding foam. There was NO resonance from the rear of that car at all afterwards. A knock anywhere on the rear resulted in a solid "thunk" instead of a hollow "thud".

Now, where is this going? Because at $4 a can, it would cost a fortune to do a building! Well, there are very similar products used in the home building industry for insulation purposes that are applied in large quantities with a spray gun. I know these products vary in expansion amounts and I have no doubt that it would help greatly.
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post #14 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 03:08 PM
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This was mentioned earlier but think 6 walls of concrete bunker to contain all the waves and then wall treatments to make that room sound good. I would suggest building a closet off the side for your equipment so it does not heat up so much in there. What about air conditioning and heating? Basements work great! Oh wait, say good bye to that $10K.

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post #15 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Level that structure and build using insulated concrete forms. The toughest part will be the ceiling. Adding mass there is the toughest. You might be stuck with multiple layers of DW and GG. I would suggest talking to an expert to be honest. You will be spending a good chunk of money so you might as well bring in someone who has experience with something this crazy.

A typical cast in place concrete ceiling has a lot of flex. You would be surprised at how much bounce and flex they have. I have done several multi-story cast in place structural concrete buildings. You may not like the results.

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post #16 of 747 Old 10-30-2012, 04:19 PM
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A typical cast in place concrete ceiling has a lot of flex. You would be surprised at how much bounce and flex they have.

I was thinking the same thing. And everything has a resonant frequency (Fs). I'd be worried about that cast ceiling resonating over time and cracking.
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post #17 of 747 Old 10-31-2012, 05:37 PM
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This was mentioned earlier but think 6 walls of concrete bunker to contain all the waves and then wall treatments to make that room sound good. I would suggest building a closet off the side for your equipment so it does not heat up so much in there. What about air conditioning and heating? Basements work great! Oh wait, say good bye to that $10K.

Is that not more trouble than it is worth to get good in room response? Sure it keeps noise from getting out, believe me I know.

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post #18 of 747 Old 10-31-2012, 06:08 PM
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Is that not more trouble than it is worth to get good in room response? Sure it keeps noise from getting out, believe me I know.

It is about keeping all the bass inside the room.

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post #19 of 747 Old 10-31-2012, 06:22 PM
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Isn't the most important thing to decouple your inner room from the outer room? So… Take what you've got, and build a second high mass enclosure completely separated from your inside one. That way less of the sound can get moving the structure and outside where you can hear it.

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post #20 of 747 Old 10-31-2012, 07:24 PM
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It is about keeping all the bass inside the room.

What about RT60 times and room modes?

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post #21 of 747 Old 10-31-2012, 07:31 PM
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Guys, he has a free standing building, he needs to reinforce this building before he works on the response. I still say if he wants 100% of the bass contained and a good sounding room he needs outer block(concrete or whatever) and then build walls with GG and staggered studs. Of course on top of that he will need wall treatments and bass traps. If he just uses drywall and GG as is the bass will escape. We are talking high spls from single digits. He needs to put some subs in there now and listen outside to see how bad it is to begin with, maybe he can get away with minimum effort.

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post #22 of 747 Old 11-04-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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One last one before the big move next week.

The entrance will serve as a popcorn/shoe/AC/amp-rack room.
The AC will be installed in the amp closet, and will combine outside air through a flexpipe into some sort of baffle-box (accelerated with another ventilation fan if need be).
Heating will be electric, with the ventilation set to fan-mode for oxygen.
The single stud 2x4 will have to be as-is until spring time, so I will have all winter to figure out just how much thicker I have to make the walls/ceiling to contain the bass.
I already told the closest neighbor that his family has unlimited access to my swimming pool, trampoline and movie theater; they supply the movie, I supply the system.



[Construction pictures to follow...]
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post #23 of 747 Old 11-05-2012, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I just emptied half of parts-express, $1300 worth of wires and connectors. biggrin.gif

and I got these rug samples in: One is silvery brown, the other is like aluminum with a slight hint of blue. I was leaning more towards a two-tone camel brown. I don't know. To be honest I'm no good with colors, even though I have pitch-perfect color vision. I'm the type that wears monotone walmart shirts haha biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 747 Old 11-06-2012, 12:29 AM
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"Well I just emptied half of parts-express, $1300 worth of wires and connectors."

:-)

the darker one might offer a little bit better light control, but i can't imagine either of them being an f-up.

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post #25 of 747 Old 11-06-2012, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I figure I'll need 10 gallons of greenglue and 50 sheets of drywall and 12 bats of roxul. Which comes to a minimum of ~$1700 done on the cheap. Not too bad.
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post #26 of 747 Old 11-07-2012, 10:55 AM
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Cool project, best of luck and fully tuned in.


fwiw; somewhat different, but once went with a dark colored textured berber, absolutely gorgeous and essentially wear free,.....BUT, the darker color berber shows dust specks minutes after you vacuum! Total bitch to keep clean looking. Yeah, a cut pile whatever is different, but for that reason I've always leaned toward lighter colors.

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post #27 of 747 Old 11-09-2012, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The 60-pairs of binding posts have arrived. ( Yeah... I fell off my rocker long time ago. redface.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif )
Also 1000ft of oxygen free wire (two spools).

This is going to take HOURS to assemble, and I'm just getting started!!!
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post #28 of 747 Old 11-10-2012, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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My fingers are bleeding but I got all 120 finished. They come fastened, so you have to unscrew them and then screw them in... so it's closer to 240 bolt spins in total.
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post #29 of 747 Old 11-10-2012, 01:47 AM
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are those all just for speaker and sub connections? what the heck are you planning/doing over there? :-)

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post #30 of 747 Old 11-10-2012, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct. Those are for the speakers and subs.

60% of them I require just to maintain how I currently operate my system, as per the videos...
The other 40% is for future expansion; allowing up to a maximum of 3 bi-amped fronts, 4 mono rears/sides and 20 mono-amped subs.
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