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post #1 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Greetings,

After a successful SEOS build for my mains: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417294/seos12-2512-build, it's time to start the build for the side surrounds.

As background, my original setup was an aging Paradigm 5.1 system. I replaced the front LCR speakers with SEOS12/DNA-360/2512 speakers. My current surrounds our Paradigm ADP-*‐170 v2. These are dipole speakers. It is not my attempt to get into a flame war, but I really don't like the dipoles. I have them above ear level right between my 1st and 2nd row. The 2nd row can hear them, but the 1st row is sitting in a big null space. Time to get monopoles.

I've gone around and around on which surrounds to build. I was looking very strong at BWaslo's Malcolm design: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=11.0, but I was concerned with my noob skills (i.e., 4 woofers) and the relatively lower sensitivity versus my mains. So, I then got interested in TuxedoCivic's work with the Delta 10a: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=68.0. Later in that build thread you'll see he started working with a DNA-350.

This will also be my first shot at using one of Erich's flat pack. I'm looking forward to the "Easy Button". rolleyes.gif

As note, this is technically a beta test of a future kit from DIY Sound Group. Erich and Tux agreed to let me document the build if all understand that this is a beta test. That means the kit and plans are not available, yet. Please don't bug Erich and Tux. They will let all know when it will be available.

Build Details
  • Use. Side Surrounds for movies, gaming and music.
  • Designer. TuxedoCivic
  • Waveguide. SEOS12 Matte Finish. I chose matte finish to match the Delta 10A's flat black finish.
  • Compression Driver. DNA-350. I chose the DNA-350 as a slight step down from my mains' DNA-360.
  • Woofer. Delta 10A. These seem to be a good mate to the 2512's in my mains. SPL is 98.8 dB 1W/1m
  • Box. 75 cu ft flat pack. This is slightly modified from the standard flat pack. I went with a sealed box and the cut outs are for the Delta 10a.
  • Wall Mount. TV Wall Mount. I was originally going to cut fins for the angle (~20°), but these are much better. They are heavy duty (up to 50 lbs) and can be adjusted -25° to +18°.

Thanks for all for help and encouragement on my LCR build. I could not have done that build without you all. Now, I have the confidence to tackle this new build.



Update:

The kits are now available on DIY Sound Group's site:
Note, these a slight change from my build in that these final kits are ported versus my sealed version.
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post #2 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Final Outcome

These surrounds turn out fantastic. Hat's off to Erich and Tux on a great kit and design!!!

Final Product


On the wall
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post #3 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 01:01 PM
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Subscribed. Looking forward to watching this build come together. Maybe be following in your footsteps. biggrin.gif

Builds: Maelstrom 21 Ottoman Build, Dual Opposed MFW's x 2, Statements, SEOS-12/TD12M x 5. 
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post #4 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 03:55 PM
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“Hey! Wait a minute, Java. Did you ever have da feelin’ you’re bein’ watched? Dat da eyes of strange eerie things are upon ya? Look! Out dere in da audience!"
bugs.jpg

"People? Yaaaaaaaaa!"

Yep, we are watching you! rolleyes.gif

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"It hurts to admit when you make mistakes - but when they are big enough, the pain only lasts a second."
--Despair, Inc. "Regret"

My AviaTrix TM Build
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post #5 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Unboxing

If interested, here are some shots from the unboxing of my "care package" from Erich. That boy sure can pack!!

The Box. Evidence of "Freaky Erich" packing skills


SEOS12 Matte Finish and DNA-350. No surprises. Same great build quality from my LCR build


Delta 10a. This was a shocker. I couldn't believe how heavy it is. It weighs 12lbs vs 6lbs for my 2512.


Flat Pack. Erich can teach Ikea a thing or two about packing.


The Goods. Here's a short video of all the big stuff except the crossover components.
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post #6 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Dry Fit

I did a quick dry fit of the box and drivers. It is unbelievably easy to put together.

Dry Fit. A quick video on the dry fit for the box.


Close up. See the front baffle thickness and bracing. Top quality!!


With Drivers. Perfect fit. Man, this is too easy. I'm sure I'll regret saying that.
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post #7 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

Yep, we are watching you! rolleyes.gif

Whew, I thought I was getting paranoid...

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post #8 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 05:03 PM
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Oh man, we've got videos! biggrin.gif

I wasn't sure if you wanted the .5" roundovers, so I didn't put them on the baffle. And because there's a possibility that they could be ported, even in the .75 cu ft cabinet, I made sure there was room under the woofer just in case. Plus, going much shorter would decrease the internal volume. That shallow enclosure should be able to be used with some sealed 12" models as well.



The new bracing design allows things go together very easy. It's the same design I came up with for the new subwoofer flat packs. But just in case, I should give some easy directions on how I've been assembling the test boxes. I'll get some pictures and better directions posted on the site soon.

Obviously braces should get glued to the rear panel first. Just line up the edges of the braces with the inner rabbet joints around the rear panel. If any glue squishes out into the rabbet joint, wipe it off so the next piece will lay flat, and not on top of a dried glob of glue. smile.gif The braces don't need to be glued in perfectly square, which is another good point of the design. Just get them fairly close.

Next is the top and bottom. Line up the edges of those panels with the inner rabbet joints as well. I dry fit the panels, then mark a line where the brace is so that I know where to put a bead of glue.

Then I glue on just one side panel. You could glue both on, but it's easier to glue one, and then glue the inner baffle on the box. If you glue both sides on first, then the inner baffle has to drop into the rabbets, which is messier with the glue.

So after one side panel is done, I glue on the inner baffle. It lines up nice and easy. Now I'll glue on the other side panel. At this point the box is complete except for the outer baffle.

If you're worried about lining up the second baffle while gluing, you could always go ahead and drill your screw holes for the waveguide and woofer through both layers. Then, when you're actually gluing the baffle on, simply put the screws in so everything lines up okay. Then clamp it the rest of the way.
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post #9 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 06:41 PM
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That video was cool to see, really shows how nice the flat packs fit together. smile.gif
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post #10 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 07:17 PM
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This whole flat packs and SEOS thingy make me want to sell off my entire speaker system and start from scratch.

eek.gif
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post #11 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 07:34 PM
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"I did a quick dry fit of the box and drivers. It is unbelievably easy to put together.

Dry Fit. A quick video on the dry fit for the box.

Close up. See the front baffle thickness and bracing. Top quality!!

With Drivers. Perfect fit. Man, this is too easy. I'm sure I'll regret saying that."

java, nice video. even half the people on the short bus could follow that. i'm going to link it up in the rallying o.p.

"This whole flat packs and SEOS thingy make me want to sell off my entire speaker system and start from scratch."

you think that you are the only one??? :-)

---

java, how do i insert that video just like you have into a post?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #12 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 08:26 PM
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Oh man. Awesome documentation. Its build threads like this and passing interest builds that really inspire DIY.

Thanks for building these. Hope you like them!
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post #13 of 189 Old 11-03-2012, 09:16 PM
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Sweet !!

On our floor there's 7x delta10a's that just came in from PE biggrin.gif

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #14 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Oh man, we've got videos! biggrin.gif
I wasn't sure if you wanted the .5" roundovers, so I didn't put them on the baffle. And because there's a possibility that they could be ported, even in the .75 cu ft cabinet, I made sure there was room under the woofer just in case. Plus, going much shorter would decrease the internal volume. That shallow enclosure should be able to be used with some sealed 12" models as well.
The new bracing design allows things go together very easy. It's the same design I came up with for the new subwoofer flat packs. But just in case, I should give some easy directions on how I've been assembling the test boxes. I'll get some pictures and better directions posted on the site soon.
Obviously braces should get glued to the rear panel first. Just line up the edges of the braces with the inner rabbet joints around the rear panel. If any glue squishes out into the rabbet joint, wipe it off so the next piece will lay flat, and not on top of a dried glob of glue. smile.gif The braces don't need to be glued in perfectly square, which is another good point of the design. Just get them fairly close.
Next is the top and bottom. Line up the edges of those panels with the inner rabbet joints as well. I dry fit the panels, then mark a line where the brace is so that I know where to put a bead of glue.
Then I glue on just one side panel. You could glue both on, but it's easier to glue one, and then glue the inner baffle on the box. If you glue both sides on first, then the inner baffle has to drop into the rabbets, which is messier with the glue.
So after one side panel is done, I glue on the inner baffle. It lines up nice and easy. Now I'll glue on the other side panel. At this point the box is complete except for the outer baffle.
If you're worried about lining up the second baffle while gluing, you could always go ahead and drill your screw holes for the waveguide and woofer through both layers. Then, when you're actually gluing the baffle on, simply put the screws in so everything lines up okay. Then clamp it the rest of the way.

Erich, no worries on the round overs. Thanks for the future port option!! Always thinking ahead...

I follow the instructions except for the baffle before the second side. Won't the rabbit joint be a bit of a problem with the baffle already in place (i.e., glued)?

The outer baffle is the one that has me a bit concerned. A lot of room to slide around...
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post #15 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

---
java, how do i insert that video just like you have into a post?

Hey LTD02,

Cut and paste the below code in the post, then highlight it and hit the video button (looks like a film strip). That's it. You should preview it first. You may need to add some lines before/after to get it to format right.

http://youtu.be/WvbkkigThow

As a quick tutorial, the common video platforms (youtube, vimeo, flickr) have a "share" button. This gives you a condensed url that you can insert into your post. To embed in a website, you'll see an embed button that brings up some code (iframe). Grab that code (copy) and drop into your web site (paste into a video frame). You can also modify the size of the frame, if needed.

Java
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post #16 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 05:55 AM
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Thanks for sharing, very slick, very smooth and trouble free.

Erich, and all involved .... outstanding. A simple video drives it home.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #17 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 06:36 AM
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great stuff, Java. thank you for sharing.
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post #18 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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great stuff, Java. thank you for sharing.

Sure. You're welcome.

What did you end up building, Zheka. If I remember right, you were between a PI and SEOS build.
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post #19 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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I follow the instructions except for the baffle before the second side. Won't the rabbit joint be a bit of a problem with the baffle already in place (i.e., glued)?
The outer baffle is the one that has me a bit concerned. A lot of room to slide around...

It doesn't really matter which way you do it. But if you glue both sides on first, the inner baffle must be dropped between 2 rabbet joints. If you wipe glue on all of those edges, when you push it between the rabbets, obviously glue will squished up and out of the joints as you push it in. Hard to explain. I guess it allows you to glue at 90 degree angles versus sliding pieces together edge to edge, which would remove a lot of the glue from the joint. In the end, you get the same thing though.

There was a decent amount of thought put into the top and bottom and how they line up with the rabbets. You'll notice that they're are not as tall as the sides, but they are as tall as the side rabbet joints. There's a reason I did that. If you only install one side first, the inner baffle glues on extremely easy because it simply rests on the top and bottom, and pushes against the first side panel you installed. No tapping it in place, no glue being forced out of the joints, and easy to line up. No worry about trying to put glue inside a vertical rabbet joint or anything like that.

After that inner baffle is dried in place, the other side goes on really easy because there's only one rabbet at the top.



Believe it or not, I went through a decent number of boxes before the overall box design came together. I've had quite a few meetings with the CNC company and the guy there was impressed with the design. It did take him a little while to wrap his head around what I was trying to do and trying to explain. You'll notice that I'm not the best at explaining things! rolleyes.gif


I took pictures of the assembly process a couple weeks ago and will try to post some of them. A picture is normally worth 1000 words. But for me, they're worth about 3000, maybe 4000! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #20 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 08:43 AM
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I'm so excited about these flat pack kits. Funny thing is is that my wife is right there with me. smile.gif We'll be redoing our home theater in March and the flat pack kits are definately part of the upgrade. Thanks for posting the videos as I showed them to the wife and she said "that's going to be easy for you to do". Great stuff guys, great stuff indeed!
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post #21 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 09:44 AM
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Sure. You're welcome.
What did you end up building, Zheka. If I remember right, you were between a PI and SEOS build.
I just finished building a set of 4Pis with DNA360/2226H. I am very happy with the sound, they are easily the best loudspeakers I ever owned, FWIW. The improvement over the CHT SHO-10s I've been running up until now is undeniable.

I have to say though that, having gone through the build, I can certainly appreciate how well Erich's flat packs are designed.
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post #22 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 09:51 AM
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4PI for me as well. These types of speakers are unreal good!

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post #23 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 01:50 PM
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"Cut and paste the below code in the post, then highlight it and hit the video button (looks like a film strip). That's it. You should preview it first. You may need to add some lines before/after to get it to format right."

thanks. linked it up.

the less intimidating all this is, the more folks who will jump in. your video really takes a lot of the myth out of it all. that hand gesture at the end of the clip is priceless...while no words were spoken, i heard "if you can tie your f_n shoes, you can put these together, there's nothing to it." :-)

actually, some simple videos like that wouldn't be a bad addition to the diysoundgroup website. i can see how that could really knock down the intimidation factor for a lot of folks.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #24 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 01:51 PM
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nice take on the 4pi, mantha.
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post #25 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Cut and paste the below code in the post, then highlight it and hit the video button (looks like a film strip). That's it. You should preview it first. You may need to add some lines before/after to get it to format right."
thanks. linked it up.
the less intimidating all this is, the more folks who will jump in. your video really takes a lot of the myth out of it all. that hand gesture at the end of the clip is priceless...while no words were spoken, i heard "if you can tie your f_n shoes, you can put these together, there's nothing to it." :-)
actually, some simple videos like that wouldn't be a bad addition to the diysoundgroup website. i can see how that could really knock down the intimidation factor for a lot of folks.


I think that is a really good idea.

Could just have some basic ones for enclosure and crossover assembly.
Or go full bore and do a complete How To video for each kit. I think that would bring the website to another level.

I would volunteer my time to do that, so Erich go ahead and send me one of every kit. biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Cut and paste the below code in the post, then highlight it and hit the video button (looks like a film strip). That's it. You should preview it first. You may need to add some lines before/after to get it to format right."
thanks. linked it up.
the less intimidating all this is, the more folks who will jump in. your video really takes a lot of the myth out of it all. that hand gesture at the end of the clip is priceless...while no words were spoken, i heard "if you can tie your f_n shoes, you can put these together, there's nothing to it." :-)
actually, some simple videos like that wouldn't be a bad addition to the diysoundgroup website. i can see how that could really knock down the intimidation factor for a lot of folks.

I'm going to try to video all of the major steps on this build. I wasn't confident enough on the first build to do it.

I absolutely agree with you on the intimidation factor. On my first build, I was very concerned about the crossovers but after watching the PE Videos on crossover assembly, I was more confident that I could tackle it.
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post #27 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

I think that is a really good idea.

Could just have some basic ones for enclosure and crossover assembly.
Or go full bore and do a complete How To video for each kit. I think that would bring the website to another level.
I would volunteer my time to do that, so Erich go ahead and send me one of every kit. biggrin.gif

The coolness of Erich's kits is that even though they vary wildly in component make/model, they have all the same basic components (flat pack, crossovers, etc.). I think some basic videos will be good for each major step. Once that is complete, unique builds like the Malcolm could have their own video sets.
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post #28 of 189 Old 11-04-2012, 04:32 PM
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your first network was a little rough, but the second one was slick.

the pics were great.

short of pre-built networks, that is really all folks need---a clear picture of what to do and what components to use.

the raw schematics to an amateur can be intimidating/confusing, but once seen in pictures, not a problem. :-)

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #29 of 189 Old 11-06-2012, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

your first network was a little rough, but the second one was slick.
the pics were great.
short of pre-built networks, that is really all folks need---a clear picture of what to do and what components to use.
the raw schematics to an amateur can be intimidating/confusing, but once seen in pictures, not a problem. :-)

Thanks to you, LTD02, for helping me through the crossover build. You gave me a lot of great advice.

I agree that pictures are a great learning tool, but video helps to tie together the steps. Again, the PE videos help me envision the entire process versus just the end state. Things like board layout, glue down, soldering, etc.

Maybe a step by step photo session could do the same.

Anyway, thanks again for you help.
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post #30 of 189 Old 11-06-2012, 05:55 AM
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Nice.

 

Looking forward to see how low these measure 2pi sealed.  If they can get to 80 they are good candidates for my surrounds one day....

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