Ack's DIY Subwoofer Build Idea Thread - Newbie Alert! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 203 Old 01-20-2013, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! Got football all day today and then the weather is supposed to be -15 degrees here most of tomorrow and I am off work.. Let's just say I will be enjoying some movies smile.gif

ChopShop1, one day soon you will be kicked back and cranking up movies in your room..
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post #182 of 203 Old 01-20-2013, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Great build! duratex is so nice to work with!!

I am a fan. One gallon goes for miles.. I have about half the bucket left... Four more subs?? smile.gif
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post #183 of 203 Old 01-20-2013, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Well.. The verdict is in.. The Hsu VTF-15 will be sold smile.gif I got everything hooked up this afternoon. The iNuke software is pretty straightforward and bridging the amp was cake. I am also a fan of Speakon connectors now, I really like them. After getting everything hooked up, I did some A/B comparisons with the VTF-15H, and I measured an easy 6-7db more gain at the LP with the four Ack subs. The Ack subs really have lots more steam under 20hz. I ran the VTF in full output (both ports open) and full extension (one port closed) and there was just no contest. The Ack subs were moving my pant legs at the LP and they sound extremely tight, and with four of the Ack subs in the room, the bass response is just very smooth. It is really hard to describe, but I absolutely see the value in having multiple good performing subwoofers spread out in the room. I did limited testing pre and post Audyssey MultiEQ, and liked what I heard with MultiEQ, but REW will confirm.

I watched the Dark Knight Rises (I have been waiting to watch this since I decided on this project) and I still have a huge smile on my face. I am just so happy with how everything sounds and I have to say that the project met my expectations. I have more output and more extension and I did it for $1K, which is about what I paid for the VTF-15H shipped to my door. Four DIY Ack subs for $1K (that cost includes everything) easily gives me the performance of 2 VTF-15H subs, and it would really take 3 Hsu VTF-15H subs to equal or best the 4 Ack subs, and that would be over $3K shipped.

Pretty much a textbook case for going DIY right here!

4 times the cone area AND reaping the benefits of scattering 4 boxes around the room...all for the same money. Truly excellent.

Where do you have the other 2 boxes...behind the sectional or to the sides?
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post #184 of 203 Old 01-20-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I am a fan. One gallon goes for miles.. I have about half the bucket left... Four more subs?? smile.gif

Ack, so 1/2 gallon of Duratex was enough to cover 4 x 3.5 ft^3 subs? What where your final dimensions?

Congrats! great job with your subs! Waiting to see those measurements and to hear your feedback about your iNuke's DSP.

__________

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post #185 of 203 Old 01-20-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krakhen View Post

Ack, so 1/2 gallon of Duratex was enough to cover 4 x 3.5 ft^3 subs? What where your final dimensions?

Congrats! great job with your subs! Waiting to see those measurements and to hear your feedback about your iNuke's DSP.

Yes 1/2 gallon gave me three full coats on four subs (I did a fourth coat on the tops). Final dimensions were 22" tall, 18.5" wide, 21" wide. I am getting about 3.8 cu ft after accounting for material thickness, bracing, driver volume, etc. I was going with 3.5 but increased it a bit in case I ever want to change these out for 18" woofers and more power.

With the INuke I am not employing any fitters or EQ right now. I am just using Audyssey and once I get my mic for REW, I may leverage the iNuke for EQ.
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post #186 of 203 Old 01-20-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Pretty much a textbook case for going DIY right here!

4 times the cone area AND reaping the benefits of scattering 4 boxes around the room...all for the same money. Truly excellent.

Where do you have the other 2 boxes...behind the sectional or to the sides?

Yes DIY is so much more bang for the buck, and there are no limitations vs commercial subs. I am a fan smile.gif.

The picture of the front of the room is not really accurate anymore. I spread out the front subs some more so they are closer to the corners. Two subs in the front of the room, two subs in the back. I don't have a perfectly rectangular room, so only have one real side wall to place a sub. Behind the sectional would be nice, but I have three young ones and having speaker wire it in the middle of the room is not going to work. Once I get REW going I will start measuring, moving subs, and measuring again.
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post #187 of 203 Old 01-21-2013, 07:59 AM
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Nice! cool.gif
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post #188 of 203 Old 01-23-2013, 08:32 PM
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NICE JOB ACK!!!!! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Very Nice!!!

Anyone that doubts DIY efforts, really don't know what their missing out on, serious thanks can't be stated enough for those that take the time, and efforts to share in what DIY can accomplish!
Many thanks go out to those here at AVS for sharing in their efforts!

Dangit..... Now I want to build 4 of these, or two of the dual dayton 18 HO's..... biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifeek.gif
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post #189 of 203 Old 01-24-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

NICE JOB ACK!!!!! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Very Nice!!!

Anyone that doubts DIY efforts, really don't know what their missing out on, serious thanks can't be stated enough for those that take the time, and efforts to share in what DIY can accomplish!
Many thanks go out to those here at AVS for sharing in their efforts!

Dangit..... Now I want to build 4 of these, or two of the dual dayton 18 HO's..... biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifeek.gif

Chad, thanks for the compliments, you just say when and I would be happy to help you go DIY anyway I can smile.gif

I have about 20+ hours on the woofers now and they seem to be sounding even better. I really am getting anxious for the minidsp mic so I can start measuring and tweaking. My wife said stuff was rattling in our bathroom which is two floors up and on the other side of the house when I was beating on the subs a few days ago eek.gif

That never happened before...
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post #190 of 203 Old 01-25-2013, 05:51 AM
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I was going to ask about vibration from the extra bass, this shows how exact BigMouthDC and many of the other dedicated theater designers / builders always stress using sound isolation, and everything about sound proofing, knowing of the expense and extra effort involved, but it certainly puts everything into perspective about doing everything right.

I'm getting my house ready to sell this mid / late summer, looking for something else, with a much larger basement for a dedicated room / dedicated family room, but way more room than what I currently have, and do it all right from the ground up. This give me some extra time getting a set of econowaves done, and this lovely example of 4 subs to build!
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post #191 of 203 Old 01-25-2013, 07:00 AM
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Bass frequencies must be kind of difficult to contain. But isolation surely must help some.

__________

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post #192 of 203 Old 01-25-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

I was going to ask about vibration from the extra bass, this shows how exact BigMouthDC and many of the other dedicated theater designers / builders always stress using sound isolation, and everything about sound proofing, knowing of the expense and extra effort involved, but it certainly puts everything into perspective about doing everything right.

I'm getting my house ready to sell this mid / late summer, looking for something else, with a much larger basement for a dedicated room / dedicated family room, but way more room than what I currently have, and do it all right from the ground up. This give me some extra time getting a set of econowaves done, and this lovely example of 4 subs to build!

Well in all fairness, I was playing low frequency test tones down to 10hz for about an hour straight and was pushing the new subs pretty hard with a bunch of heavy bass scenes from Blu-Ray movies smile.gif I don't see this being the norm for most movies, but I do agree with you that if you have the right room and the budget, sound proofing is the way to go. I did crank up Dark Knight Returns pretty good and it did not wake the kids two floors above, so I as long as I am not waking them my wife is okay smile.gif

I really debated using clips, channel, double drywall, green glue, etc but with the size of my basement and the open floor plan it was just not cost effective at all. If I ever build a dedicated theater room that is about 1/3rd the size of the room I have now, I would absolutely do it. I helped my buddy build a dedicated room using the above techniques, and they really do work.

Good luck selling your house and looking for a new one! Maple Grove is pretty nice (hint, hint).
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post #193 of 203 Old 01-25-2013, 09:44 AM
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Wow, looks fantastic, ack. I've been really considering DIY subs, and have been reading a lot and have read through your entire thread... very inspiring. You've convinced me DIY is the way to go. Sure, I have only really basic woodworking skills and minimal knowledge on electronics/amps/etc., but might as well go slow and start learning!

To do all of that under $1000 and have it sound good is awesome. Congrats! What did your box dimensions end up being, by the way?
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post #194 of 203 Old 01-25-2013, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beezar View Post

Wow, looks fantastic, ack. I've been really considering DIY subs, and have been reading a lot and have read through your entire thread... very inspiring. You've convinced me DIY is the way to go. Sure, I have only really basic woodworking skills and minimal knowledge on electronics/amps/etc., but might as well go slow and start learning!

To do all of that under $1000 and have it sound good is awesome. Congrats! What did your box dimensions end up being, by the way?

Wow, thank you for the kind words, I am glad you found my thread inspiring smile.gif As long as you have the desire and will to learn you can definitely do it. Like you, I did not know much at all about amps, drivers, etc. There is such a great DIY community out there, as you have seen from my thread, of folks willing to help other folks.

Final dimensions of the box were:
22" tall, 18.5" wide, 21" long. With bracing, driver volume, etc I am around 3.8 cu ft internal. Depending on what driver and power you decide (and if you go sealed) you could go a little bigger or smaller off my dimensions. If you go ported it will most likely mean a much bigger box.

I highly recommend downloading Winisd Pro and reading through the how to guide from here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/6330-winisd-pro-tutorial-download-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html#axzz2J1CHqWQq

Not sure if you have seen this either that Gorilla83 started:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1443078/new-to-diy-faqs-in-here

Once you decide on your budget and how large a box you can build, it will really help you narrow things down. I would have loved quad 18" Dayton HO drivers and a couple of beefy amps but I really wanted to see what I could do for around $1K and I suspect version 2 will allow me to have a bigger budget one day... One thing about DIY, it is addictive!

Good luck, and make sure you start a thread once you get going. I will be sure to subscribe and will help as much as my limited abilities allow smile.gif
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post #195 of 203 Old 02-11-2013, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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New toy... I have a lot to learn with the mic and REW but am excited to play around. Also have a Denon 2113CI receiver on the way...





Oh.. And my kids watched "Horton Hears A Who" on Blu Saturday and it sounded like an actual elephant was stomping around in our house. Huge bass in this one and it really showered how much more output the four sealed subs had vs my previous sub.. Huge bass!
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post #196 of 203 Old 02-16-2013, 11:35 AM
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Nice Buy Ack!

I'm going to order one of these mic's too, as I'm going to learn this too.... I'm considering on building a set of these sub boxes, to try them out.

I found a house that I could build a 22 x 28 combo / dedicated family room / theater, I need will draw up a layout.
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post #197 of 203 Old 02-24-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been playing around the last few days with Audyssey XT, REW, and the new microphone. Here is how things currently stand with the four subs (no smoothing):



I have not applied any EQ with the iNuke yet. But I do feel like I am getting everything dialed in. Any feedback? I do feel that bass response is much stronger and smoother than ever before. But I am new to the REW (and aside from Audyssey) the EQ scene. FYI, all speakers set to small left, right, and center crossed over at 80hz, surrounds at 100hz.
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post #198 of 203 Old 02-28-2013, 06:01 PM
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Hey Ack,

I'm really bummed, I returned my Onkyo 818, for some of the glitches that were going on, and now 2 months later, they finally got a firmware to fix most of the issues that plagued that receiver, it has Multi-EQ XT32, which many have said was really nice for sound correction, I was looking at the Denon most current model, but missed out, I'm still waiting to still consider another 818, but we will see if it comes down in price, any-ways, I'm wanting to buy one of these MiniDSP mics, and start learning how the pro's do it the right way..... Calibrating your room, and then dial in to your environment...
I bought two of the klipsch RW-12 powered subs when they were on sale at the Egg, with my 4 other klipsch RF-7 towers, there is plenty of bass to say the least, but I would have wanted to build a set of subs just like what you made.

I wonder how the subs you used would work for a some-what modified version of the econowave deluxe, if I buy a 120" electric screen for my family room, I may need a set of short but wide and deep speakers to allow the screen to come down just before touching the tops of the speakers, I'd have 30" max height, I'd be looking at anything 25 to 30" wide x 28-30" high x about 15" deep, then make a set for LCR.... Idea's Idea's...... What else you been up to??? Winter is almost over.....
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post #199 of 203 Old 03-01-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I have been playing around the last few days with Audyssey XT, REW, and the new microphone. Here is how things currently stand with the four subs (no smoothing):

I have not applied any EQ with the iNuke yet. But I do feel like I am getting everything dialed in. Any feedback? I do feel that bass response is much stronger and smoother than ever before. But I am new to the REW (and aside from Audyssey) the EQ scene. FYI, all speakers set to small left, right, and center crossed over at 80hz, surrounds at 100hz.

ack,

All I can say is that I am very impressed with your efforts and the results you are getting. eek.gif

My basement is very similar to yours in size and I have considered getting dual VTF-15's for it but after reading through your build here, I'm going to put that plan aside. The size of your cabinets would be just about right for my WAF. Getting her to accept 3 of them wouldn't be a problem and maybe even 4 of them would be a possibility if I can find the right spot for it. If I have followed correctly, it sounds like having 4 sources is more forgiving as far as placement goes.
I'm a newbie to DIY speaker building, but not to woodworking, but I will have a bit of a learning curve with the amp selection process and the wiring part.
I briefly looked at DIY before but was a bit overwhelmed with what was involved in choosing the right driver, cabinet size / type, and amp but threads like this are very helpful with respect to that
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post #200 of 203 Old 03-01-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

New toy... I have a lot to learn with the mic and REW but am excited to play around. Also have a Denon 2113CI receiver on the way...





Oh.. And my kids watched "Horton Hears A Who" on Blu Saturday and it sounded like an actual elephant was stomping around in our house. Huge bass in this one and it really showered how much more output the four sealed subs had vs my previous sub.. Huge bass!

I have the Umik as well, they are having some calibration / sensitivity issues with the latest batch, see this thread for more info.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/63808-minidsp-umik-1-microphone-36.html

That being said, it's still an awesome piece of equipment and fairly accurate without the cal file, I have no regrets.
So if you get a few wonky measurements, that may be why.
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post #201 of 203 Old 04-07-2013, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brent A View Post

ack,

All I can say is that I am very impressed with your efforts and the results you are getting. eek.gif

My basement is very similar to yours in size and I have considered getting dual VTF-15's for it but after reading through your build here, I'm going to put that plan aside. The size of your cabinets would be just about right for my WAF. Getting her to accept 3 of them wouldn't be a problem and maybe even 4 of them would be a possibility if I can find the right spot for it. If I have followed correctly, it sounds like having 4 sources is more forgiving as far as placement goes.
I'm a newbie to DIY speaker building, but not to woodworking, but I will have a bit of a learning curve with the amp selection process and the wiring part.
I briefly looked at DIY before but was a bit overwhelmed with what was involved in choosing the right driver, cabinet size / type, and amp but threads like this are very helpful with respect to that

Thanks for the kind words and DIY is definitely the way to go!

If I can help, let me know. In terms of box size, you could go a little smaller than mine, I wanted to go just a tiny bit larger in case I want to upgrade to 18" drivers and not start from scratch...

I have really been enjoying the system and have watched tons of movies and TV lately, hence why I have not been as active on the forum.
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post #202 of 203 Old 04-07-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

I have the Umik as well, they are having some calibration / sensitivity issues with the latest batch, see this thread for more info.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/63808-minidsp-umik-1-microphone-36.html

That being said, it's still an awesome piece of equipment and fairly accurate without the cal file, I have no regrets.
So if you get a few wonky measurements, that may be why.

Yeah, I really wish I would have gone with a different USB mic, but that is water under the bridge at this point. It is still better than nothing, but it is frustrating that it has taken this long to get a good calibration file and I might just ship my mic to Cross Spectrum for calibration and be done with Minidsp for good.

Their customer service is atrocious.
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post #203 of 203 Old 04-07-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Hey Ack,

I'm really bummed, I returned my Onkyo 818, for some of the glitches that were going on, and now 2 months later, they finally got a firmware to fix most of the issues that plagued that receiver, it has Multi-EQ XT32, which many have said was really nice for sound correction, I was looking at the Denon most current model, but missed out, I'm still waiting to still consider another 818, but we will see if it comes down in price, any-ways, I'm wanting to buy one of these MiniDSP mics, and start learning how the pro's do it the right way..... Calibrating your room, and then dial in to your environment...
I bought two of the klipsch RW-12 powered subs when they were on sale at the Egg, with my 4 other klipsch RF-7 towers, there is plenty of bass to say the least, but I would have wanted to build a set of subs just like what you made.

I wonder how the subs you used would work for a some-what modified version of the econowave deluxe, if I buy a 120" electric screen for my family room, I may need a set of short but wide and deep speakers to allow the screen to come down just before touching the tops of the speakers, I'd have 30" max height, I'd be looking at anything 25 to 30" wide x 28-30" high x about 15" deep, then make a set for LCR.... Idea's Idea's...... What else you been up to??? Winter is almost over.....

Super busy with work, family, etc, and of course enjoying the home theater!

Sorry to hear about your receiver troubles, but I am having my own. My new Denon seems to like going into protect mode at random times. Sometimes it will run for 4 hours with no issue. Sometimes just 2. I have a case opened with Denon and have been troubleshooting and I am pretty sure it will get shipped back to them this week. Bah.

Come on, you know you want to go DIY on your speakers smile.gif

Biggest challenge you will have is having the speakers lower to the floor, but you could design an angled baffle that would direct sound more towards the listening position. Would be a fun project for the spring, no smile.gif
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