Alpine SWR-1223D DIY Sub Build For HT - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 44 Old 12-05-2012, 10:20 PM
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trying to get full reference out of a single 12" driver in a small sealed cab and wondering why the amp is being sent into clipping?

more subs and power are needed...

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post #32 of 44 Old 12-06-2012, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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trying to get full reference out of a single 12" driver in a small sealed cab and wondering why the amp is being sent into clipping?

Why does the box size come as a surprise?? That's exactly what i had been asking if that was gona work.

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Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #33 of 44 Old 12-06-2012, 02:28 PM
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Maybe your expectations were a little high? A single sealed 12" driver in a 2500cu ft room is not going to produce tremendous spl. Do you have a spl meter to see what you get near field and at listening position? Could a high input signal cause the amp to go into clipping?

You can increase the box size which will lower the power you need to get the same spl, just need to watch excursion.

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post #34 of 44 Old 12-06-2012, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I do have a Rat Shack analog meter. That is a separate issue. I had listed specifically what I was doing including all the gear; but maybe nobody reads and starts tossing opinions.

I simply keep quiet and do not feed wrong information if I am not absolutely sure. So, that people don't waste money based on my wrong input.

I should have been told that 50L sealed box wudn't be enough. That is all the purpose of this or any other forum ..... brainstorming.

Anyway, thanx for your input.

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #35 of 44 Old 12-06-2012, 09:44 PM
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"The sub ouput just sounds anaemic and strangulated, but it does not bottom out.

on the low end of the bass or on the upper end too?

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post #36 of 44 Old 12-06-2012, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I checked the raw response without audyssey and dynamic eq. It is roughly the same. Instead of running the sweep through REW, I ran 0dBFS (20Hz, 30Hz, and 60Hz) sine waves at my reference volume. On all three frequencies, the Crown went in hard clipping. It means it just doesn't have enough power to drive a sealed sub.

It's I think in all frequency spectrums i.e. ultra low (20Hz) , low(30Hz), and midbass(60Hz).

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Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #37 of 44 Old 12-06-2012, 10:36 PM
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just to get a rough idea of where you are...if you turn your amp down to the point where it only slightly clips, what kind of spl are you measuring with the 60hz test tone? (just the sub, mains turned off)

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post #38 of 44 Old 12-07-2012, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Audyssey and DynamicEQ off and BFD in bypass mode, reference volume at 75dB and channel trim of sub at 00 on avr, output attenuators on crown at 12 o clock position (just a tick below where clipping light starts to blink), all speakers disconnected with crossover at 80hz and avr in 2-channel stereo mode, and playing 60Hz (0dBFS) test tone, I get following SPL on rat shack meter;

Near field (One Meter) = 118dB
Listening Position (10 ft) = 109dB

At both positions, crown (Bridged Mode) goes into hard clipping. It doesn't clip when I run the test tone with the sub disconnected. But when sub is playing, crown clips with the same setting. What wrong am I doing?

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #39 of 44 Old 12-07-2012, 01:42 AM
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good data.

nothing in there jumps out at me as doing anything wrong and believe me, i feel your frustration.

my guess is that you are just putting too much demand on the sub for the spl that you wish to achieve.

doubling up drivers and power gets you another 6db, roughly. 4x the drivers and power gets you 12db, roughly. switching to ported cabs might help, but your posted frequency response looks quite smooth. if that is room gain great. if that is audussey or something else boosting it up, not so good.

for a kick butt system, 120db or so at the listening position is kind of what you want to shoot for.

for front row of a rock concert, even higher peaks than that are required at the listening position, upwards of 130db or so.

while not pratical or affordable for most, there are some guys around here running 8x18" drivers in 32+ total cubic feet of enclosures, and more than 10,000 watts of power off multiple individual power taps to the eletrical box for a reason. there is only so much performance one can get with a given driver size, enclosure, and amp power.

if another member with a good eyeball catches something that i'm missing or can confirm things, that would be great.

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post #40 of 44 Old 12-07-2012, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanx buds for your valuable info. Just for the record I have used a pioneer ts-w250d4 (800 watts RMS 3000 Peak) wired at 2 OHMS in a made-out-of-gutt-feeling ported box and drove of Crown xls-1000 in bridged mode (1100 watts at 4 Ohms only); it was scary to death bass with it without the amp clipping. Though I wud only use it between 50 and 90 hz coz it would bottom out around 45Hz. Klipsch SUB-12 would do the duties below 50Hz. That setup literally lifted the roof.

I do not really crank the vloume; rather I enjoy minor audio subtlties at lower volumes. It was amazing setup. Pioneer had only 9.8mm Xmax. This time I thought let's do it the proper way with the available gear. Alpine has more than twice Xmax than Pioneer and far better Qts. So, on paper it should perform better. I think the sealed box is taking a toll on Crown.

I just drove home a custom built 4.8cu ft slot-ported box tuned to 23Hz using WinISD. I will put Alpine in it and hope it gives me the same sonic impact as pioneer did.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #41 of 44 Old 12-07-2012, 04:53 AM
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"I think the sealed box is taking a toll on Crown."

yeah...that is kind of what your winisd models were showing.

"I just drove home a custom built 4.8cu ft slot-ported box tuned to 23Hz using WinISD. I will put Alpine in it and hope it gives me the same sonic impact as pioneer did."

might be a little peaky and i don't want to mention the high pass as it has already been discussed.

i hope the new cab works out.

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post #42 of 44 Old 12-13-2012, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I just recieved Behringer iNuke NU6000 DSP. This will replace crown xls1000 to feed the DIY sub. While hooking up seems straight forward. I have some concerns over its power draw from AC oultet.
It's 110 Volts US model and I have to run it on 230-240 Volts coz that's the voltage we use here. I am already running Crown xls1000 (110 Volts) though a step down transfomer which can bear the load upto 500 Watts. The iNuke user manual shows the power requirments as follows;

Power Consumption @4ohms with 1/8 rated power: 620 watts

  1. Can I run this amp on my current step down transformer to its full potential?
  2. Also, there are no power ratings listed for 2 ohm performance. Can I run 2 ohms load on it?? Is it 2 ohms stable??
  3. The bridged mode power ratings are also not listed; but considering its RMS ratings at 4 ohms (2200 watts) and 8 ohms (1500 watts), should I even care about not being able to bridge??


Any advice on the mentioned issues??

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #43 of 44 Old 12-13-2012, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
i hope the new cab works out.

Here is the In-Room Response of Alpine in 4.8cu ft Vented Box Tuned to 23Hz



-3dB point is at 16Hz ....... Amazing!!!

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #44 of 44 Old 12-13-2012, 10:07 AM
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"2.Also, there are no power ratings listed for 2 ohm performance. Can I run 2 ohms load on it?? Is it 2 ohms stable??"

no. the 6000 is two 3000's in one enclosure. each 3000 is already bridged and is only 4 ohm stable.

the 6000 can NOT be bridged.

your frequency response looks pretty good.

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