Building Seos-12 LCR's DNA-360 + JBL-2226j - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I am getting ready to order all of the necessary parts to build a trio of Seos-12's for my LCR's in my theater. I will be using the DNA-360's for the mid/high frequencys, matted with a Seos-12 waveguide, and JBL-2226j's for the low frequencys. These will replace my beloved Definitive Technology BP-30's and C/L/R-2000 that I am currently using for my LCR's.

Before I click the order button on this stuff, I was wondering what you guys think about the different Seos-12 waveguides, plastic versus resin, versus fiberglass? It has been recommended to me that I should go with the plastic Seos-12. Do you guys feel the same? Or should I spend the extra cash and get the resin Seos-15's? If I go with the resin Seos-15's, that will make my build take a little longer as they are more expensive. Is the plastic Seos-12 close in performance to the resin Seos-15? Can both be used with the DNA-360?


Also, I was planning on doing these in sealed cabs with the JBL-2226j woofers. Do you guys think that sealed is the way to go?

So to sum up my questions...

1. Plastic Seos-12 versus resin Seos-15?

2. Sealed cabinet versus ported cabinet? (will be using the JBL-2226j)
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post #2 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 07:07 AM
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If doing your own xo design SEOS 15. If using MTG-90's xo then you need the SEOS 12.
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post #3 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

If doing your own xo design SEOS 15. If using MTG-90's xo then you need the SEOS 12.

I do not have the capibilities to design my own crossover. I thought about going active, but, if there is already a passive crossover designed to work with the Seos-12/DNA-360/2226 then I would rather go that way.

The only pre-made baffle for the Seos-12/JBL-2226 is for a sealed cabinet, but, I guess I could always drill my own port, or, put the port in the rear of the cabinet, right?

I have been told by a couple of folks that the resin Seos-15 is only marginally better than the plastic Seos-12 so if that is the case then I will go that direction.
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post #4 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 09:21 AM
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Why would you want to go ported, do you need the extra extension?

Mike
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post #5 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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No, not necessarily. As long as the go down to at least 60hz, I would be happy with that.

Does anyone know what specs (Hight, width, depth) I should build the enclosure to?

Where can I find the info on the crossover? Do they even have a crossover design for the DNA-360/JBL-2226j? I had originally planned on going active, but I am now reconsidering that idea.
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post #6 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 03:44 PM
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A passive and an basic active version are coming out from MTG-90. Give it a few weeks. I've seen the REV 1.0 and it's really nice. The drivers like each other a lot. Both active and passive are super simple, which is rare for pro gear imo.
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post #7 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

No, not necessarily. As long as the go down to at least 60hz, I would be happy with that.
Does anyone know what specs (Hight, width, depth) I should build the enclosure to?
Where can I find the info on the crossover? Do they even have a crossover design for the DNA-360/JBL-2226j? I had originally planned on going active, but I am now reconsidering that idea.

Marty, are you aware of Brad Horskotte's nearly identically titled build of what you're doing here? Post #147 talks about the crossover. smile.gif

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post #8 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 03:52 PM
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Tux, Marty is saying he has the J version though.
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post #9 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louisdamani View Post

Tux, Marty is saying he has the J version though.

I think he knows...he's the one that did the crossover on Brad Horskotte's build. wink.gif
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post #10 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 04:00 PM
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I know he knows. mtg90 is working on the H last I heard. smile.gif
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post #11 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 04:05 PM
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Ah dangit. I alway mix up the J and H. mad.gif

Ok, well don't use the cross over that MTG-90 is putting together then. What I know about the J:

1. Brad took good measurements, but they came out funny;
2. Did a cross over anyways;
3. Measured the way we expected;
4. I think Coctostan plans on making a cross over. But who knows when.

I've had a chance to play with the files from MTG-90 to do an active version ( Louisdamani asked for an active version too ) and tried my J version on those files, except I altered the component values for an 8ohm load and raised the tweeter level 3db, to see if I was in anyway right. And it worked which is actually a surprise. So I feel more confident about the J cross over. So you could use that also. But if Coctostan comes along with one he's personally measured and listened to, I'd plan to use it.
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post #12 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louisdamani View Post

I know he knows. mtg90 is working on the H last I heard. smile.gif

Ahah...I get it now... >>>slinks away from keyboard feeling kind of dumb smile.gif
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post #13 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 06:21 PM
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I get the H and J mixed up as well, sometimes I need to do a quick google to make sure I am using the right letter biggrin.gif

I can't be sure but would doubling the inductor and halving the cap values on the woofer then padding the tweeter 3dB work? I am thinking it might.


So far the H design sounds really nice, here is where I have it right now. Measured indoors 1M on tweeter axis. (I am going to get a new mic as I am starting to doubt how accurate my current one is below 100hz and above 5K):



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post #14 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 06:39 PM
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What mic do you have mtg? I doubt mine all the time, but it's only a year old and from cross spectrum. I think it's just you. It's natural to doubt it wink.gif

Remember that thread on diysoundgroup where we posted out waveguide measurements. We had a couple that were pretty similar. Maybe a little top end difference. Easily explainable by driver variance and measurement variance.
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post #15 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 06:48 PM
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I know it can't be off by all that much and I sure don't let the microphone have final say on a design. Thats what ears are for right?

Now I did not expect to be using it for such nice designs but it has worked out out well so far. I have been using an Audio Technica AT2020USB eek.gifbiggrin.gif

I think it's why you don't see as many ground bounce ripples in my outdoor measurements.
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post #16 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 06:59 PM
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The cardioid pattern from that mic might keep the ground reflections out. Would make high frequencies more prone to mic position changes though. Sounds right smile.gif
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post #17 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

No, not necessarily. As long as the go down to at least 60hz, I would be happy with that.
Does anyone know what specs (Hight, width, depth) I should build the enclosure to?
Where can I find the info on the crossover? Do they even have a crossover design for the DNA-360/JBL-2226j? I had originally planned on going active, but I am now reconsidering that idea.

I do believe the H and J will have the same low end response in identical enclosures, someone correct me if I am wrong.

If so the B&C design I built that enclosure for works well with the 2226H and f3 is right about 60hz. The enclosure was 2.5cuft net and has three 3" ports 6" long. Erich should have the baffle for the B&C design available at some point and the JBL will drop right in.
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post #18 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

I do believe the H and J will have the same low end response in identical enclosures, someone correct me if I am wrong.
If so the B&C design I built that enclosure for works well with the 2226H and f3 is right about 60hz. The enclosure was 2.5cuft net and has three 3" ports 6" long. Erich should have the baffle for the B&C design available at some point and the JBL will drop right in.

So which B&C driver are you referring too? Is the 2226j able to used in the B&C driver hole?
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post #19 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Erich has recommend that I use this baffle:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/plastic-seos/plastic-seos.html

That particular baffle is for a sealed enclosure, but, I am leaning towards a ported design so that I can have some flexibility in that I could stuff the ports to try several different configurations. I do not want to go with a slot port, due to the fact that you can't stuff a slot port. I also need to figure out what exact specs that I should build the enclosure to. I will worry about the crossover later. Right now I desperately need the following questions answered. Any help you guys could provide in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated!

1. Can someone please model this enclosure? (ported enclosure)

2. Can someone tell me what the H x W x D this cabinet needs to be? (note that I want to go ported, not sealed)

3. Can someone also tell me how to go about incorporating the ports? (ie should I drill port holes in the baffle that I linked above, or should I port the rear or side port?)

4. How big in diameter does the port need to be?

5. How long does the port need to be?
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post #20 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:48 AM
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that looks really good. nice work. no, really nice work. :-) the transition through the crossover point couldn't be more seemless. not sure where you put it, but the entire region from 800hz to 3khz is ruler flat.

there are many folks looking forward to the 2226h/seos/dna360 network...

what did you end up with for the accoustical crossover point (-6db)?

edit: i've been looking at that frequency response over and over again and i just can't believe how smooth it is in the crossover region. it is dead flat. really nice work. big props.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #21 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Erich has recommend that I use this baffle:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/plastic-seos/plastic-seos.html
That particular baffle is for a sealed enclosure, but, I am leaning towards a ported design so that I can have some flexibility in that I could stuff the ports to try several different configurations. I do not want to go with a slot port, due to the fact that you can't stuff a slot port. I also need to figure out what exact specs that I should build the enclosure to. I will worry about the crossover later. Right now I desperately need the following questions answered. Any help you guys could provide in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated!
1. Can someone please model this enclosure? (ported enclosure)
2. Can someone tell me what the H x W x D this cabinet needs to be? (note that I want to go ported, not sealed)
3. Can someone also tell me how to go about incorporating the ports? (ie should I drill port holes in the baffle that I linked above, or should I port the rear or side port?)
4. How big in diameter does the port need to be?
5. How long does the port need to be?

I think you meant to link this baffle: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker-baffles/seos-15-jbl-baffle.html

The 15" B&C I am using and the 2226 both fit in the same cutout 14". The B&C has a slightly larger OD but only a 1/4", you can see the gap in the photo above which is really not bad at all. The external dimensions on my box are 16.75"w x 29.5"h x 13.5"d, 3/4" MDF all around with double thick front baffle. Three 3" ports at 6" long. Again I think Erich may have this baffle available at some point which will work better for porting the 2226 if you don't want the ports on the sides or back.

To achieve the same internal volume using the baffle from the link above you would need to make it 14.25" deep to make the overall dimensions 17.25"w x 25"h x 14.25"d. You could use three 3" ports on the backside and make them about 4 to 6" long.

Here is what WinISD shows with the 2226 in a 2.5cuft box with three 3" ports at 6" long, also shows what happens when you plug 1, 2 or all 3 ports:
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post #22 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post


that looks really good. nice work. no, really nice work. :-) the transition through the crossover point couldn't be more seemless. not sure where you put it, but the entire region from 800hz to 3khz is ruler flat.
there are many folks looking forward to the 2226h/seos/dna360 network...
what did you end up with for the accoustical crossover point (-6db)?
edit: i've been looking at that frequency response over and over again and i just can't believe how smooth it is in the crossover region. it is dead flat. really nice work. big props.

Thanks man, X-over point is about 1050hz.

I have got to do a little more listening to it make sure it is truly ready before I release it. Also I want to get that new mic and measure it again to make sure my current one isn't leading me astray.
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post #23 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 02:11 PM
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I'd recommend doing a couple shots at a few degrees off axis. 1050hz is a tiny bit low for the SEOS12, and though your on-axis looks superb, you don't want things to go bad just off-axis. That matters in audibility unfortunately. Not saying anything is wrong, you might just verify.

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post #24 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so before I take this any further, can someone please explain what I would need to do for the crossover if using the DNA-360/Seos-12/JBL-2226j? Is there an existing crossover design that I could copy for that driver combo? I have absolutely zero crossover knowledge.

If not, what existing crossovers are available for the Seos-12/DNA-360/unknown woofer? Perhaps the 2512 or some B&C woofer? Speaking of woofers, what other woofers are common to use in this design besides the 2226, 2512, and TD12M? The AE woofer is definitely off the table as it cost over $250 bucks ea and I can not afford that.
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post #25 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Ok, so before I take this any further, can someone please explain what I would need to do for the crossover if using the DNA-360/Seos-12/JBL-2226j? Is there an existing crossover design that I could copy for that driver combo? I have absolutely zero crossover knowledge.

What the heck man??? Did you happen to miss my post earlier in this thread??? Scroll back up to post #7...I think it might make everything fairly clear for you. tongue.gif
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post #26 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:23 PM
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Post 11 also!
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post #27 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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What the heck man??? Did you happen to miss my post earlier in this thread??? Scroll back up to post #7...I think it might make everything fairly clear for you. tongue.gif

Ok, after re-reading that post, I saw the crossover layout. Now, how do I figure what all of those components are and how they should be connected and where can I purchase the components? As I said, I know absolutely zero about crossovers and honestly have no idea where to begin. Seeing that layout in post number 147 of the linked thread in post number 7 of this thread, that might as well be written in Hebrew because I have no clue what any of those things are. When I started this thread, I was under the impression that there were some sort of crossover kit. What should I do now?
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post #28 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:38 PM
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There will be a crossover kit, but the design is not done yet.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
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post #29 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Ok, after re-reading that post, I saw the crossover layout. Now, how do I figure what all of those components are and how they should be connected and where can I purchase the components? As I said, I know absolutely zero about crossovers and honestly have no idea where to begin. Seeing that layout in post number 147 of the linked thread in post number 7 of this thread, that might as well be written in Hebrew because I have no clue what any of those things are. When I started this thread, I was under the impression that there were some sort of crossover kit. What should I do now?

I would PM either Tux who drew up the crossover or Brad and I bet they would be more than happy to provide you with a list of the exact parts needed. Parts Express will have everything...then after you get it, you have a couple of pictures in that post to copy the work from. wink.gif

Or you could wait for the DIYSG kit if you're not chomping at the bit to get going on this.
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post #30 of 37 Old 12-08-2012, 07:14 PM
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I'm sure we could walk you through it if you know how to solder. Or if you wanted active, settings are available.
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