THT, TT, SonoSub, etc.. what type to build? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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My goal with this build is to make a single driver sub that will be good for 75/25 movies and music. Room is about 3600 cuft. I am leaning towards a vented design to ensure a strong low end and would probably use sonotube for simplicity. But, I would also consider a sealed design if I thought that the room would help out with the low end enough. Thats were I need help, Im not sure just how much the room will boost the low end if at all.

Modeling up the dayton rss390hf or the DVC I can get a pretty flat response when tuned to 17hz in a 10 cuft enclosure. Only problem I see there is the need for a high pass filter to be sure I dont go way over xmax.

Suggestions / Pointers / Hurtful Taunting? biggrin.gif

Thanks in advance


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post #2 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogeng182 View Post

Hurtful Taunting? biggrin.gif
You've certainly come to the right place for that one. tongue.gif

What's your budget? What amp will you be using? How loudly do you watch/listen?
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post #3 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 05:04 PM
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Depends on your output needs and budget.

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post #4 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I plan on sacrificing a 300 W BASH plate amp from my current sub, don't want to spend more than $200 on a driver. Hoping to keep other costs minimal.

Loudness: I'm not looking for something to shake my teeth out. I usually listen at a moderate level, sometimes up to -15dB on my yammy rcvr. I haven't done any measurements

Also, will a larger enclosure result in "boominess", im guessing no if built correctly?


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post #5 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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Since you're reusing that amp, something like a Dayton DVC 15 is all you need. A 6ft3 box tuned to 20hz will work really well. A pair of 3" x 14" ports will get you that tune. Plate amps have HPF's built in, your amps is somewhere around 18-20hz.


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post #6 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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When I run that through winisd it shows really high air velocity under 40hz. Maybe I'm not doing something right. What is the general rule on air velocity for ported subs?


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post #7 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 09:12 PM
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Are you adding a high pass filter under the filters tab? Try 18hz just to be safe. Should be about 26 M/S, which is pretty decent.


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post #8 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 09:19 PM
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Also to answer the boominess question. No. Boominess is a product of cheap components and bad design. Not box size.

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post #9 of 26 Old 12-07-2012, 10:02 PM
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boominess is largely a function of the room and its modes. when you put a sub in a room, it will excite various frequencies and cancel others, so called peaks and nulls.

the peaks not only have a larger response in the frequency domain, but they also have a much longer decay in the time domain.

save for improperly designed subs, that is going to be the place to look for "boominess".

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #10 of 26 Old 12-08-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Messed around with winisd a bit more, I think I will go with the HF vented, just looks so good on paper redface.gif I briefly considered the titanic so I could later upgrade my amp and get a major boost in output but it would probably be better to build an additional sub at that point to even out the room. Is there danger in under-powering a driver?


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post #11 of 26 Old 12-08-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogeng182 View Post

Is there danger in under-powering a driver?
Only if you're obsessed with trying to get more power out of the amp than it has and are constantly driving it into clipping.
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post #12 of 26 Old 12-08-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the help guys. I feel pretty good about where to start now.


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post #13 of 26 Old 12-17-2012, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking that a sonotube design is called for here to minimize the footprint of a 10cuft box. The sonosub version of boxnotes suggests some material on the top.
Will I need polyfill or some other sound damper inside?
How would it be applied?


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post #14 of 26 Old 12-17-2012, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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WinISD graphs of my planned build. Using the Dayton RSS390HF-4 15", my salvaged polk audio 300 W BASH amp, 11 cu ft enclosure, tuned to 18Hz, with one 6 inch dia 17 inch long port.



Looking at the specs from the unaltered 300S BASH amp on parts express I added a high pass filter at 18Hz with a 1dB boost at 28Hz. I really dont know if this matches the amp I have, just my best guess.



Xmax should be set at 14mm, could not adjust it since I started the project with it set like that.


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post #15 of 26 Old 12-17-2012, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogeng182 View Post

I am thinking that a sonotube design is called for here to minimize the footprint of a 10cuft box. The sonosub version of boxnotes suggests some material on the top.
Will I need polyfill or some other sound damper inside?
How would it be applied?
I lined the inside of my sonosubs with R13 paper faced insulation.



You don't need to line the sub with something, but it doesn't hurt.
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post #16 of 26 Old 12-18-2012, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogeng182 View Post

WinISD graphs of my planned build. Using the Dayton RSS390HF-4 15", my salvaged polk audio 300 W BASH amp, 11 cu ft enclosure, tuned to 18Hz, with one 6 inch dia 17 inch long port.

Looking at the specs from the unaltered 300S BASH amp on parts express I added a high pass filter at 18Hz with a 1dB boost at 28Hz. I really dont know if this matches the amp I have, just my best guess.

Xmax should be set at 14mm, could not adjust it since I started the project with it set like that.

Im very new to all this, just want to be sure im not doing something totally wrong. Any suggestions based on WinISD model? Is the amplifier input accurate? Thanks


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post #17 of 26 Old 12-18-2012, 08:34 AM
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Your model looks okay. However, I wouldn't expect the amp from your Polk sub to be set up in the manner you're expecting though.
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post #18 of 26 Old 12-18-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

boominess is largely a function of the room and its modes. when you put a sub in a room, it will excite various frequencies and cancel others, so called peaks and nulls.
the peaks not only have a larger response in the frequency domain, but they also have a much longer decay in the time domain.
save for improperly designed subs, that is going to be the place to look for "boominess".

Thanks for the input. I do plan on putting up some superchunks in the corners and panels at first reflection points if I can find decently priced material.


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post #19 of 26 Old 01-07-2013, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Still have not begun my build yet as I have been doing some more reading on various box types in addition to the holidays creating a black hole in the wallet region. Initially I was going for a very simplistic sonotube design considering my newbiness but now TT/THT types have caught my attention. Could someone be so kind as to highlight the benefits and drawbacks of these different designs compared to a regular vented sub? Please keep in mind that I would like to use my current 300W bash amp.


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post #20 of 26 Old 01-07-2013, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogeng182 View Post

Still have not begun my build yet as I have been doing some more reading on various box types in addition to the holidays creating a black hole in the wallet region. Initially I was going for a very simplistic sonotube design considering my newbiness but now TT/THT types have caught my attention. Could someone be so kind as to highlight the benefits and drawbacks of these different designs compared to a regular vented sub? Please keep in mind that I would like to use my current 300W bash amp.

a THT or F-20 would give you INSANE output down to about 20-22 hz, then it has a steep roll off. downside... those suckers are huge, 36x36x24 to be exact (although you can create a low profile THT) they give great clean bass with ridiculous amounts of output and that 300 watt amp won't even be 1/2 driven most likely. downside, it's big, doesn't have a great wife/SO factor, but they DO perform well for a limited budget like you're mentioning. a bit of a pain to build in comparison to a sonosub but they work well.
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post #21 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 05:15 AM
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wormraper pretty much hit it on the head. I have a dual loaded TT that I really enjoy. It's small enough at 30x30 that it can be disguised as an end table, but it's still large. With a little EQ, mine is flat down to nearly 25hz in-room and has plenty of output to shake picture frames off of walls. The TT and THT can also be built in long style form factors if that suits your room better (lookup THT-LP and TTLS).

The boxes are harder to build, but it's not a big deal if you follow the plans. Build a THT or F20 if size isn't a factor, but the TT sounds great too if you don't need it to go as low or have as much output.

Here's an in-room measurement of my TT after EQ from the listening position:

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post #22 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. Space is not really an issue, have a 18x25 room. My goal is great SQ down to 20hz, im not sure what level of output I will need but I wont be listening at reference levels and my fronts are only polk M60's (although these will get replaced at some point, probably with a SEOS12 set). I will search around a bit for some measurements on the F-20, seems like a well respected build that fits my criteria, see how it compares to the sonosub I have modeled.


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post #23 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 07:57 AM
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Did you rob that amp out of a PSW505 by chance? I bought 2 18" Stereo Integrity drivers that will be replacing my Polk (should be a little different! eek.gif) but I have not bought an amp yet. Maybe I will rip the amp out of mine as a temporary solution!


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post #24 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 09:55 AM
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FWIW, here is in room response for my pair of THT LPs, after EQ, both corner loaded - room is about 3500 cu ft:



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post #25 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post

Did you rob that amp out of a PSW505 by chance? I bought 2 18" Stereo Integrity drivers that will be replacing my Polk (should be a little different! eek.gif) but I have not bought an amp yet. Maybe I will rip the amp out of mine as a temporary solution!

I haven't done it yet (still using it) but that is the plan. Hopefully that amp doesnt have too high of a high pass. Im counting on 18 to 20 hz, could never get an answer from polk when I asked, no surprise there rolleyes.gif


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post #26 of 26 Old 01-08-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
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I haven't done it yet (still using it) but that is the plan. Hopefully that amp doesnt have too high of a high pass. Im counting on 18 to 20 hz, could never get an answer from polk when I asked, no surprise there rolleyes.gif

Well, I have no graphs to prove anything one way or another, but when I play the "pod emerges" scene from War of the Worlds, my Polk makes all kinds of bad noises in addition to the insane amount of port chuffing noises. It seems that if there is a high pass, it's not steep enough or high enough to protect the 12" very well.


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