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post #121 of 145 Old 02-23-2016, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by splotten View Post
Oh, I see. Didn't notice the difference. 1.4V sensitivity should be fine. I was just worried about audible hiss from the tweeters. Someone on an other forum commented that he had some hiss but I had a "funny" feeling about that post, so I wanted a second opinion.
By most reports you should be fine as long as you have sufficient pre-out level. If you find your avr doesn't have sufficient signal you could try a line level booster but that in itself could add noise, too. Are you worried about hiss that might exist by putting your ear to the speaker? Or at a particular distance? Biggest complaint about hiss I can think of was blazar's with his ultra high sensitivity speakers (like 108dB or better IIRC) in a very quiet room, he ended up finding only one or two amps that satisfied his quest for the least noise. The other major difference with the 1500 vs 1502 is the aesthetics of the case so you might make sure which amp you're considering in that respect, too.
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post #122 of 145 Old 02-23-2016, 04:54 PM
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OK. Thanks guys. Sounds good
I might have accidentally lied a little. I just put my ear right up to my horn, and I do hear a little bit of hiss. I just never noticed it before from my listening position, because I never put my ear right up to the horn, like I just did - to double check for you. Yes, there is some slight hiss, without the central air on, and when it's dead quiet, very little, but it's a nice, soothing hiss. Sorry for the misconception earlier. It isn't as "dead quiet" as I implied. My bad. I want to say it's very minimal though, and doesn't detract - keep in mind my amp's knobs are PEGGED all the way up.
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post #123 of 145 Old 02-25-2016, 02:44 AM
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OK. Thank you for taking your time. Much appreciated. Guess I just have to try it out then.
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post #124 of 145 Old 02-26-2016, 04:27 PM
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I just did power output testing on a XLS 2500 at 40hz, 20hz, 10hz, and 5hz.


http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...r-tests/page-1


The frequency response did exhibit more LF roll-off than my Crest CC amps and the SeakerPower SP-12K, but it wasn't significant. I'll post some graphs of that later tonight.
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post #125 of 145 Old 02-27-2016, 03:32 PM
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post #126 of 145 Old 03-01-2016, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Compared to a CC5500, the XLS is down 1db at 10hz and 4db at 5hz:




That kind of makes the claims that the XLS plummets at 20hz rather invalid. For nearly all purposes it is the same response just so long as we aren't chasing single digit frequencies.
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post #127 of 145 Old 03-01-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tsloms View Post
That kind of makes the claims that the XLS plummets at 20hz rather invalid. For nearly all purposes it is the same response just so long as we aren't chasing single digit frequencies.

Yeah after measuring it I don't see how a built in 20hz HPF would be explained, but I'm all ears.


It also maintains some pretty solid power down to 10hz, but I wouldn't expect much at 5hz
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post #128 of 145 Old 03-01-2016, 09:01 PM
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Wow, im actually pretty impressed by those measurements on that crown
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post #129 of 145 Old 03-02-2016, 02:07 AM
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How does the XLS 202 and 402 compare to the later models like the XLS 1500 series? Are the XLS 202 and particularly the 402 just as good as the newer serious?
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post #130 of 145 Old 03-02-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
Yeah after measuring it I don't see how a built in 20hz HPF would be explained, but I'm all ears.


It also maintains some pretty solid power down to 10hz, but I wouldn't expect much at 5hz
It can be explained because Crown said all their amps had 20Hz HPFs--but the measurements did not follow what Crown claimed on their own site forums. I own a Crown XTi 1002 and have no idea what it does, then again, I don't use it for subwoofers. One of these days I'll measure it out to figure it out since Harmon has nothing for actual usable specifications.
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post #131 of 145 Old 03-02-2016, 09:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
How does the XLS 202 and 402 compare to the later models like the XLS 1500 series? Are the XLS 202 and particularly the 402 just as good as the newer serious?
You mean the older XLS series? IIRC that was class A/B vs the newer class D XLS. Then there's this China-only current XLS 202/402.
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post #132 of 145 Old 03-03-2016, 01:53 AM
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You mean the older XLS series? IIRC that was class A/B vs the newer class D XLS. Then there's this China-only current XLS 202/402.
I am honestly not sure, but I would assume that it is the old XLS series. The reason that I ask is because one of my local pawn shops has an XLS-402 for like $99 and I was thinking of picking it up to bridge and power my center speaker (88 Special). Does that seem like a good deal? Does this old XLS 402 work ok for powering something like my 88 Special?
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post #133 of 145 Old 03-03-2016, 02:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
I am honestly not sure, but I would assume that it is the old XLS series. The reason that I ask is because one of my local pawn shops has an XLS-402 for like $99 and I was thinking of picking it up to bridge and power my center speaker (88 Special). Does that seem like a good deal? Does this old XLS 402 work ok for powering something like my 88 Special?
I've read nice things about the older XLS amps but no experience....seems to me I read fan noise may be a consideration with them, tho. I looked at the china-only XLS series, that may be the older series....seems to be same model numbers at least. http://rdn.harmanpro.com/product_doc...t_original.pdf
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post #134 of 145 Old 03-03-2016, 09:46 AM
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I just completed my first foray into DIY Subwoofers. I'm running an SI HST18 on a Crown XLS2502. I have no minidsp and simply ran it through the Audyssey X32 on my Marantz receiver. I "level matched" it fairly close to my existing Rythmik 15" sealed sub. The bass sounds great for my ears. I got a good headache after 20 minutes of Mad Max, Fury Road!

My questions:
1. I'm running the amp bridged and it lands about 8 out of 10 on the level spectrum. Any danger running 10 out of 10?!

2. How much sound quality improvement from running in through a minidsp?

Main Speakers: Revel F208's. Center: C208
SUB#1: Rhythmik F15HP. SUB#2: Stereo Integrity HST18 w/ Crown XLS2502
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post #135 of 145 Old 03-03-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by trmoore2 View Post
My questions:
1. I'm running the amp bridged and it lands about 8 out of 10 on the level spectrum. Any danger running 10 out of 10?!
Not sure, I wouldnt think so, since I think thats the point of the clip limiters.

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Originally Posted by trmoore2 View Post
2. How much sound quality improvement from running in through a minidsp?
Depends on how bad your room is and if you want to add a house curve. The MiniDSP would allow you to custom EQ the lower end and add boosts, cuts, etc if needed to help out where the AVR calibration cant.

The MiniDSP can also be used to run Linkwitz transforms which can help level out your response in a sealed sub (at the cost of a LOT of wattage)...... But again, the MiniDSP lets you do a LOT more with EQ than just a set and forget type deal.

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post #136 of 145 Old 03-04-2016, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I've read nice things about the older XLS amps but no experience....seems to me I read fan noise may be a consideration with them, tho. I looked at the china-only XLS series, that may be the older series....seems to be same model numbers at least. http://rdn.harmanpro.com/product_doc...t_original.pdf
Thanks for the reply. How would the XLS 1500 (with a MiniDsp for EQ) work for powering something like a center or left and right channels, versus like an iNukexxxxdsp?
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post #137 of 145 Old 03-04-2016, 07:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Thanks for the reply. How would the XLS 1500 (with a MiniDsp for EQ) work for powering something like a center or left and right channels, versus like an iNukexxxxdsp?
I haven't used an iNuke amp yet but the dsp capabilities I think would be similar....altho you could get a single minidsp unit vs multiple amps. iNuke fan noise could be a consideration...
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post #138 of 145 Old 03-04-2016, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tip24/96 View Post
Thanks for the reply. How would the XLS 1500 (with a MiniDsp for EQ) work for powering something like a center or left and right channels, versus like an iNukexxxxdsp?
I can't speak to the "vs. iNuke" part but I use XLS 2000's for L/C/R and I love them. Low noise floor, plenty of power.
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post #139 of 145 Old 01-24-2017, 07:41 AM
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I can't speak to the "vs. iNuke" part but I use XLS 2000's for L/C/R and I love them. Low noise floor, plenty of power.
Hello, some inquiries:


I just hooked an XLS1500 to a Pioneer SC 85 for front power. However, the MCAAC (Pioneer´s calibrator) sets a really low volume, forcing me to set the XLS to almost 75% level. In the end, I do get really good sound, but I was expecting to set the XLS to a 50% level tops, leaving me space to increase the gain when listening to 2 channel music.


So, am I doing something wrong? Should I used the receiver´s internal amps to calibrate and then hook it to the XLS? Is the problem being caused by the 2.5 Volts input voltage (really high) the XLS requires?


Anyone, please?
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post #140 of 145 Old 01-24-2017, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by xhattan View Post
Hello, some inquiries:


I just hooked an XLS1500 to a Pioneer SC 85 for front power. However, the MCAAC (Pioneer´s calibrator) sets a really low volume, forcing me to set the XLS to almost 75% level. In the end, I do get really good sound, but I was expecting to set the XLS to a 50% level tops, leaving me space to increase the gain when listening to 2 channel music.


So, am I doing something wrong? Should I used the receiver´s internal amps to calibrate and then hook it to the XLS? Is the problem being caused by the 2.5 Volts input voltage (really high) the XLS requires?


Anyone, please?
How low did MCACC set the channel levels? Turn the channel levels up in the Pioneer interface and turn the amp gain down. Or turn the amp gain down and re-run MCACC, it should re-calibrate with the channel levels higher so you don't have to adjust manually. Ideally you'd have the AVR channel levels and the amp sitting "in the middle" which gives plenty of headroom on both the AVR and amp.
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post #141 of 145 Old 01-24-2017, 12:02 PM
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How low did MCACC set the channel levels? Turn the channel levels up in the Pioneer interface and turn the amp gain down. Or turn the amp gain down and re-run MCACC, it should re-calibrate with the channel levels higher so you don't have to adjust manually. Ideally you'd have the AVR channel levels and the amp sitting "in the middle" which gives plenty of headroom on both the AVR and amp.
Actually, it sets the fronts in +12, which is extremely high, as the volume it makes the XLS output is really low even if the gain is at 50%. That´s why I have to set the XLS at 75% and then the MCAAC sets the volume at +8.5, still high (center and surrounds are set at +1.5, tops) but at least it allows me some space for more gain.


I have recalibrated many times, but still the problem persists (not a dealbreaker, as I get really great sound, Pioneer and Crown really make a good pairing, if not for this MCAAC problem).


I have tested the Crown with my turntable and it gets really, really loud, with undistorted, clear and dynamic sound. Maybe it´s just the MCAAC that doesn´t like external amps.
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post #142 of 145 Old 01-24-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by xhattan View Post
Actually, it sets the fronts in +12, which is extremely high, as the volume it makes the XLS output is really low even if the gain is at 50%. That´s why I have to set the XLS at 75% and then the MCAAC sets the volume at +8.5, still high (center and surrounds are set at +1.5, tops) but at least it allows me some space for more gain.


I have recalibrated many times, but still the problem persists (not a dealbreaker, as I get really great sound, Pioneer and Crown really make a good pairing, if not for this MCAAC problem).


I have tested the Crown with my turntable and it gets really, really loud, with undistorted, clear and dynamic sound. Maybe it´s just the MCAAC that doesn´t like external amps.
Just food for though, home hifi amplifiers that have no gain knobs would be exactly the same as the xls at 100% on the gain as they are actually not gain controls at all. they are attenuation controls. so 100% is really just no attenuation to the incoming signal. Nothing wrong with having them way up. Turning them down only helps if you have noise somewhere in the signal chain that the amp is then in turn amplifying.
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post #143 of 145 Old 01-24-2017, 12:43 PM
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Just food for though, home hifi amplifiers that have no gain knobs would be exactly the same as the xls at 100% on the gain as they are actually not gain controls at all. they are attenuation controls. so 100% is really just no attenuation to the incoming signal. Nothing wrong with having them way up. Turning them down only helps if you have noise somewhere in the signal chain that the amp is then in turn amplifying.
^^^ This.
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post #144 of 145 Old 05-03-2017, 04:17 AM
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http://www.ekoideas.com.my/product/a...wer-amplifier/
Is Amcron a legal clone of Crown?
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post #145 of 145 Old 05-05-2017, 08:41 AM
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Is Amcron a legal clone of Crown?
Amcron *is* Crown:

CROWN Founded in 1947 as the International Radio and Electronics Corporation (IREC) by Indiana minister Clarence C. Moore and wife, Ruby. The name was changed to Crown International in the 1960s when suggested by Ruby, based on their popular tape recorders, "Royal" and "Imperial," with their distinctive crown emblem. This also ended exporting disputes over the "'Royal" and "Imperial" brands. Later on, similar disputes created the use of the registered brand name Amcron (acronym for American Crown).

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