advice on best drivers to annoy my neigbours ;) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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hello all this is my first post to this forum and im here to pick your brains on what i should buy

background: i've recently thrown myself into electronics by building myself a hi fi amp set for use with line level crossovers

i have 4 x 150w mosfet amps for mid and woofer
2 x 100w symasym amps built for tweeter
(parts to build 300w sub amp)
was expecting to start building crossover but was informed by my dad that i need to know what speakers im going to use

now i hadnt even considered speakers up untill now so last night spent ages trying to find drivers suitable for the power i've got that came under a reasonable budget

heres the what i came up with its a 3 way comprimise
sea's prestige drivers

tweeter
H1499-06 27TBCD/GB-DXT

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=184&Itemid=179
mid
H1207-08 L12RCY/P

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=104&Itemid=126
bass
H1208-08 L22RN4X/P

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=135

at first they seemed like a good choice but looking into it they all require very small enclosures unported enclosures and im worried that i'm going to be dissapointed by the bass and overall sound of them

now i dont really know what to be asking here so what do you guys think of this selection?

would i be better served making sure i have a sub to go with them?

EDIT: these drivers will cost me £300 for the set
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post #2 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 08:28 AM
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You will need more efficient drivers if you really want to annoy the neighbors wink.gif

I'm sure the Seas drivers are very nice but they will not knock the paint off the walls if that is what you want to do.
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post #3 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 09:16 AM
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Sound like you are planning to build the crossover yourself. To do that you will need measurement equipment, which will cost more than your budget for the drivers.

I suggest before you go any further you review the FAQs at Paul Carmody's site on building speakers.
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post #4 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

You will need more efficient drivers if you really want to annoy the neighbors wink.gif
I'm sure the Seas drivers are very nice but they will not knock the paint off the walls if that is what you want to do.
lol my neighbours wont get full wack all the time wink.gif atm my music is played thru an old toshiba 5.1 surround with 12 inch sub thats been more than enough for my neighbours neighour to complain smile.gif

what im building now will have more power but was worried about getting reasonable bass from this set up without having to crank it right up
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Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

Sound like you are planning to build the crossover yourself. To do that you will need measurement equipment, which will cost more than your budget for the drivers.
I suggest before you go any further you review the FAQs at Paul Carmody's site on building speakers.
thank you for the link i'll look over it

im building a line level crossover before it gets to the amps i dont know if that will make much difference
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post #5 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 10:48 AM
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You'll probably get deep bass out of the L22. And you have a sub. Are you in an apartment or something? What kind of size constraints do you have?

I would suggest you try and find a speaker that has already been designed. But since you're going active, that'll narrow the field down quite a bit. Especially since it's going to be passive line level active. Most active cross overs these days are digital. Would you be open to going digital, like the minidsp.

You can't just take 3 nice drivers, look up the component values in a line level cross over chart, put it all together and hope it sounds good. You have to account for a myriad of issues. Phase, driver limitations, frequency response, etc. Most people who go active, and do it right, don't bother to post their cross overs online. I've been doing it for the diysoundgroup builds, but those are digital active.
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post #6 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

You'll probably get deep bass out of the L22. And you have a sub. Are you in an apartment or something? What kind of size constraints do you have?
i dont have a sub with this setup but have the ability/ components to build a sub amp (but not havent driver) atm i am in an apartment block and realise that i cannot "give it the full beans" but i would love to be capable of doing so if needed wink.gif. i can't go really big with this set up was imagining reasonably sized floor standing speakers with possible sub cabs when i started
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I would suggest you try and find a speaker that has already been designed. But since you're going active, that'll narrow the field down quite a bit. Especially since it's going to be passive line level active. Most active cross overs these days are digital. Would you be open to going digital, like the minidsp.
i havent looked long and TBH i'm finding it hard to find set ups that match the power that i've built. i dont know if im going active as such (my amps aren't enclosed in speakers althought i know that doesnt make much difference) i have all the bits already for a transiter or op amp crossover set.
im copying designs my dad has used for his diy hifi set
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You can't just take 3 nice drivers, look up the component values in a line level cross over chart, put it all together and hope it sounds good. You have to account for a myriad of issues. Phase, driver limitations, frequency response, etc. Most people who go active, and do it right, don't bother to post their cross overs online. I've been doing it for the diysoundgroup builds, but those are digital active.

thats kind of why im worrying and here i figured if i matched drivers from same range then it wouldnt be too bad

but then i questioned if drivers were right as the enclosure for the l22 was very small

theres a lot to learn in this
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post #7 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post

im copying designs my dad has used for his diy hifi set

That's what I mean. It doesn't work like that. You can't just use his design if the speakers are different. And chances are he didn't measure and fine tune the cross over specifically for his drivers either, given what I'm hearing.
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Originally Posted by ginjawarrior View Post

thats kind of why im worrying and here i figured if i matched drivers from same range then it wouldnt be too bad

It doesn't work like that. Drivers from the same lineup don't automatically work together. Far from it in fact. It offers absolutely no advantage other than aesthetically matches. You need a cross over that has been developed by measurements and careful listening. You can't use a calculator and just apply a Butterworth 12db/oct filter at 2khz to both drivers. Will probably sound pretty bad.
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post #8 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

That's what I mean. It doesn't work like that. You can't just use his design if the speakers are different. And chances are he didn't measure and fine tune the cross over specifically for his drivers either, given what I'm hearing.
no im not using a carbon copy the circuit shape is the same but components will be different (according to his calculations)
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It doesn't work like that. Drivers from the same lineup don't automatically work together. Far from it in fact. It offers absolutely no advantage other than aesthetically matches. You need a cross over that has been developed by measurements and careful listening. You can't use a calculator and just apply a Butterworth 12db/oct filter at 2khz to both drivers. Will probably sound pretty bad.
i didnt know drivers wouldnt match up

i dont know what the filter configuration will be the drivers seemed to have a good overlap in range (for filtering) i have oscilloscopes for testing if that helps

i am a newb in this its a project i've undertaken when i found out my dads cancer was terminal i'm looking to build a memento of him (he's built himself a high end diy setup)
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post #9 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 12:25 PM
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Well, if he has calculated something that works, that's great. I'm just not sure how he could. SEAS has pretty reliable spec sheets. But still, the enclosure shape will change the response. Sorry to hear about your Dad.

How about using a documented passive speaker. (when I said active, I didn't mean the amps are in the speaker. I meant the cross over is line leve). Use the amps to tri-amp the speaker. There isn't much additional benefit to doing that, but would put your amps to use, and you'd have a cross over that's customized for your drivers.
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post #10 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 02:13 PM
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300 watts for the sub and you want something to annoy the neighbors?

Sounds like you need to build a horn. Either an F20 or a THT will fit the bill nicely. Search the forums for them and you'll see plenty of examples.
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post #11 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 04:35 PM
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This guy lives in a flat in the UK. It works a little differently over there. I don't think it takes 120db to annoy the neighbours. Before I recently moved out of a townhouse, I had a single 8" sub and my neighbour knew about it. It's a different culture.
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post #12 of 13 Old 12-14-2012, 04:42 PM
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Very true... He'd piss off the entire building with an F20. lol
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post #13 of 13 Old 12-19-2012, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Well, if he has calculated something that works, that's great. I'm just not sure how he could. SEAS has pretty reliable spec sheets. But still, the enclosure shape will change the response. Sorry to hear about your Dad.
How about using a documented passive speaker. (when I said active, I didn't mean the amps are in the speaker. I meant the cross over is line leve). Use the amps to tri-amp the speaker. There isn't much additional benefit to doing that, but would put your amps to use, and you'd have a cross over that's customized for your drivers.
thank you smile.gif

i asked him again and he slightly cheated he took the speakers + plan from a kit upgraded the tweeter then built the LR4 crossover's himself (with a fair bit of tweaking) he's had full approval of an audiophile whose spent a few tens of thousands on his equipment and my uncle whose been a sound engineer. and TBH at a certain level it starts to be subjective
EDIT: he quad amped it 3X 100w symasym amps + 2X 100 symasym bridged amps per channel
the kit he copied http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/reqiuem---platinum-944-p.asp (he's has added sub's to that set up)

now im not going down that path as disastrous as its possibly might be lol (for one reason i cant afford the speakers)

from the start of this build it was always going to be a line level crossover and i can play about alot with it to get what i want

now we're going to use

morels 308cat's
the same mid's L12RCY/P
and changing the 22's to L22RNX/P instead of the L22RN4X/P

decided subs were going to be needed so are looking for 2 good quality 12's that are reasonably priced (probably going to play them in mono atm untill have bits for extra amp)

now as to speaker shape i have not yet decided i have the plans for the requiems but am toying with the idea of a separate box for each the sub and woofer
and a smaller bookcase box for the mid and tweeter (im not going to port any of them i figure i've got the range not to need it)

while i would like something amazing i'm reasonably confident i'm going to end up with something that sounds good with a fair bit of oomph smile.gif
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Originally Posted by ovrrdrive View Post

300 watts for the sub and you want something to annoy the neighbors?
Sounds like you need to build a horn. Either an F20 or a THT will fit the bill nicely. Search the forums for them and you'll see plenty of examples.

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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

This guy lives in a flat in the UK. It works a little differently over there. I don't think it takes 120db to annoy the neighbours. Before I recently moved out of a townhouse, I had a single 8" sub and my neighbour knew about it. It's a different culture.
lol yeah tbh my toshiba 5.1 can make the whole building humm and i have had the people from the houses on other side of the road come and ask me to turn it down smile.gif

what im building now will be completely overkill if i can get it to sound good
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