First DIY Subwoofer Build, Need Drivers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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As of now, I have a simple setup in my bedroom that I use for about 60% music, 40% movies. My source for virtually everything is my PS3.

The setup consists of:
Denon AVR1312 Receiver
Boston Acoustics CS260II towers (powered by a Crown XLS1000)
Aphex 124a as a "preamp" for the Crown XLS amp
Dayton SUB-1200 on low end duty

I'm upgrading the setup one piece at a time on a broke college kid budget smile.gif and the subwoofer is the weakest part of the setup right now IMO. I have experience with building setups in cars for SQ and a little SPL so I figured going the DIY sub route first would be best to get my feet wet in the DIY home audio scene.

Now that all of that's out of the way.....

I have about $400-500 I can put into drivers for my subwoofer setup and need some recommendations.
The amp will likely be a Behringer iNuke3000DSP bridged at 4 ohms. (I'm not completely sure what these do real life power so some info on that would be helpful too) or maybe I'll just stick with Crown and get the XLS1500
My space constraints are the biggest issue, I would think.

The area I have allotted for the sub setup measures something like this:
13" wide
17" deep
with pretty much any reasonable amount of height.

or, if the height falls under 44", I can fit 24" deep and, still, 13" wide.



Any suggestions on drivers to look into that perform well in enclosures fitting these constraints and with the power I will have on tap?

I have been searching around on PE and came up with mostly Dayton drivers obviously; then, I ventured into the car audio scene (which I know a lot better) and saw some offerings from SSA, Fi, JL, Sundown, etc that were interesting....
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 08:30 AM
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How big is the room? You only have one spot in your room you can fit a sub? You're going to be looking at around 6 ft3 given your max dimensions, which should work well for a ported 15"


That amp should do around 1500-2000 watts bridged at 4ohm.
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

How big is the room? You only have one spot in your room you can fit a sub? You're going to be looking at around 6 ft3 given your max dimensions, which should work well for a ported 15"
That amp should do around 1500-2000 watts bridged at 4ohm.

The room is a little less than 500 sq ft.

The space I chose was because it always offered the best performance when tested with other subs. Also, its the only place that I can run the wires and have them not look TOO bad. Unless I change to wireless in the future which opens a few other areas.

What 15 would you recommend for that space and power?
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 09:14 AM
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I'm not sure what your low end extension goals are, but handling that much power in an enclosure that small is going to require tuning a bit higher then some people like. The Fi Q15 should be able to handle the task. A box that is 43.75" H x 24" D x 13" W (3/4" material), with a 3" x 11.5" slot port that is 24" long will get a 5.5 ft3 box tuned to 24.5hz (after adding some sensible bracing). The port opening should be on the 13" side, if you have open space above the front top of the sub you can have the port firing out of the top of the sub, otherwise it will need a small L to reach 24" running the depth of the cabinet. The woofer needs to go on the 24" side of course

With 1800 watts and a 22hz HPF you will have pretty awesome output capability



Max air velocity would be about 36 m/s, but somehow I dont think it's going to matter with 118 db output at the same frequency. Cone excursion's never an issue.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I'm not sure what your low end extension goals are, but handling that much power in an enclosure that small is going to require tuning a bit higher then some people like. The Fi Q15 should be able to handle the task. A box that is 43.75" H x 24" D x 13" W (3/4" material), with a 3" x 11.5" slot port that is 24" long will get a 5.5 ft3 box tuned to 24.5hz (after adding some sensible bracing). The port opening should be on the 13" side, if you have open space above the front top of the sub you can have the port firing out of the top of the sub, otherwise it will need a small L to reach 24" running the depth of the cabinet. The woofer needs to go on the 24" side of course
With 1800 watts and a 22hz HPF you will have pretty awesome output capability

Max air velocity would be about 36 m/s, but somehow I dont think it's going to matter with 118 db output at the same frequency. Cone excursion's never an issue.

Thanks man. That's actually a pretty solid response for my goals. I will keep that design in mind for sure.

What about using something like a couple of the newer Alpine Type R 12s in comparison to the Q15? They only need about 2cu per woofer.
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 09:55 AM
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A pair of Alpine 1243D's will actually match the Fi in output, the biggest difference is the Alpine pair has less Xmax, which pushes them closer to their limits (higher distortion).
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Moore View Post

The amp will likely be a Behringer iNuke3000DSP bridged at 4 ohms. (I'm not completely sure what these do real life power so some info on that would be helpful too) or maybe I'll just stick with Crown and get the XLS1500

It's around 600x2 into 4, 1000x2 into 2, 2000 bridged into 4.

Look into doing multiple subs spaced out around the room. 2 HO 18's would be good on that budget with the possibility of adding 2 more later or you could get 8 Infinity 1262w's and build 4 dual opposed boxes.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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A pair of Alpine 1243D's will actually match the Fi in output, the biggest difference is the Alpine pair has less Xmax, which pushes them closer to their limits (higher distortion).

Not the 1243, the newest one (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_45521_Alpine-SWR-12D4.html) The RMS rating is actually 1000. Sonic has a misprint.

Granted, iirc they both still have the 20mm xmax so it changes nothing there. But I trust the Type Rs to hold their own even at their limits. The SSA ICON 12 is a 1250wrms rated driver with a 21mm xmax and it is regarded as a very nice sounding driver with solid output potential.

So I guess, I'm stuck deciding between the Q15 and a pair of Type R12s. If I had to say, I would say I'm leaning towards the Type Rs for the reason that the smaller subs allow for more sub aiming options in my setup.

OAN: I'm thinking of changing my amp from the iNuke to the Crown XLS, either the 1500 or 2500. I trust these amps a little more and I can add separate equalization to pick up the slack of not having the DSP.
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

A pair of Alpine 1243D's will actually match the Fi in output, the biggest difference is the Alpine pair has less Xmax, which pushes them closer to their limits (higher distortion).

Not the 1243, the newest one (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_45521_Alpine-SWR-12D4.html) The RMS rating is actually 1000. Sonic has a misprint.

Granted, iirc they both still have the 20mm xmax so it changes nothing there. But I trust the Type Rs to hold their own even at their limits. The SSA ICON 12 is a 1250wrms rated driver with a 21mm xmax and it is regarded as a very nice sounding driver with solid output potential.

So I guess, I'm stuck deciding between the Q15 and a pair of Type R12s. If I had to say, I would say I'm leaning towards the Type Rs for the reason that the smaller subs allow for more sub aiming options in my setup.

OAN: I'm thinking of changing my amp from the iNuke to the Crown XLS, either the 1500 or 2500. I trust these amps a little more and I can add separate equalization to pick up the slack of not having the DSP.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

It's around 600x2 into 4, 1000x2 into 2, 2000 bridged into 4.
Look into doing multiple subs spaced out around the room. 2 HO 18's would be good on that budget with the possibility of adding 2 more later or you could get 8 Infinity 1262w's and build 4 dual opposed boxes.

That dual opposed idea seems pretty nice actually. But it would end up being only 4 of the Infinity Reference subs as opposed to 8. Two in the area mentioned above which is to the left of my entertainment center and 2 in another space that is to the right near my door.
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
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There's some minor differences in the 12D4's parameters, but the performance comparison should remain the same.
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Calvin Moore View Post

That dual opposed idea seems pretty nice actually. But it would end up being only 4 of the Infinity Reference subs as opposed to 8. Two in the area mentioned above which is to the left of my entertainment center and 2 in another space that is to the right near my door.

The 8 in 4 boxes was to match your budget. If you only want to build 2 boxes and want dual opposed then the DVC385-88 would be good when they go on sale again or stretch you budget $100 and get the RSS390HO-4 which is on sale now. Either of those options would have comparable max output to 8 Infinity 12's.
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-17-2012, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Any noticeable differences between going with dual opposed versus normal sealed or ported?

My initial idea, before making this thread was 2 12" woofers in a suitable ported box. But, now I'm wondering if I can do better than ported maybe with dual opposed/sealed...
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 05:02 AM
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Any noticeable differences between going with dual opposed versus normal sealed or ported?
My initial idea, before making this thread was 2 12" woofers in a suitable ported box. But, now I'm wondering if I can do better than ported maybe with dual opposed/sealed...

Yeah, that's complicated. Model a driver like the 1262 in WinISD. Make one project 2 drivers sealed in 4 cu ft and the other project 1 ported in 4 cu ft at 20 hz. Look at the max spl around 30-40hz and then look at spl with the signal set to the power you have available, which is about 400 for ported and 600 for dual opposed.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 07:38 AM
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I'm using a pair of Alpine 1243R's is my living room opposed each in a sealed 1.5 cubic foot enclosure powered by an EP2500. This puts a full 1000 watts into each woofer.

The Alpines do sound very clean and have low distortion with very good ouput but can suck up the power like crazy. They will take the full output of the EP2500 with no issue.
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-18-2012, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I've come up with a rough idea that I think I could make work. I am thinking I could build dual towers beside my front towers that each house a single 12 or dual 10s each...ported with the subs firing out at me and rear ports (probably 4" rounds). I also think I am going to go ahead and use the Crown XLS2500 as power for the subs.
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-18-2013, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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For anyone who may be interested in how this turned out, I ended up using the newer Type R 10s. I have one on each side of the entertainment center in custom enclosures at about 1.7cu each tuned to 23hz with a Crown XLS1000 for power and I am very impressed with the setup. F3 at 20hz.

Its awesome for movies as well as music.

I think it came out great for my first time doing this.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-21-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Moore View Post

For anyone who may be interested in how this turned out, I ended up using the newer Type R 10s. I have one on each side of the entertainment center in custom enclosures at about 1.7cu each tuned to 23hz with a Crown XLS1000 for power and I am very impressed with the setup. F3 at 20hz.

Its awesome for movies as well as music.

I think it came out great for my first time doing this.

Pics? And is 1.7cu ft the optimal enclosure size?
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-26-2013, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Pics? And is 1.7cu ft the optimal enclosure size?

0DD1BE1F-2346-470D-9E33-73A3EC1F4578-24808-00000C7DE5974521.jpg

07FC74D6-DB08-41CC-BBF3-BB0819836850-24808-00000C7DF0A95818.jpg

Iirc, 1.7cu was larger than alpine recommends but modeled very well so I went with that.

They haven't bottomed out once that I've noticed.
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