"The Grizzlies" Twin Dual Opposed Stereo Integrity HT18 Subwoofers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 266 Old 12-17-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Gorilla83's subs received the nickname "The Silverbacks", so i figured i would pay homage to that and call my project "The Grizzlies" since they will have a old school rustic look to them. Maybe nicknames are earned not given. i dont know. biggrin.gif

I have decided to build these after reading through Gorilla83's thread for his dual opposed Dayton HO18 subs. i was going to build those, but i jumped on the sale Amazon is having on the EP4000 amps and bought two of them instead of the more expensive, yet better matched CV5000. I wouldnt be able to get the power i wanted to the Daytons with these amps due to the limited wiring options. The SI HT18's have a dual 4ohm VC which allows me to wire two drivers in each cab into a 4 ohm load. That will put about 1000 watts into each driver which should do the trick. the pre-order price also saves me some cash. so im hoping i can get the same performance as the Daytons on a CV5000 amp for less cool.gif

I am using 13 ply 3/4" Baltic Birch for the cabinet. My box design is the same as Gorilla83's except i am going to recess the entire baffle 1.25". This will require me to increase the total depth by 2.5" making the dimensions 25H x 23W x 31.25D. To do this, im going to be adding blocking inside to support the baffle. the blocking will be 3/4" x 3/4" and 15' total. this decreases the interior volume by 101.24 cubic inches. i wonder if thats ok, or if i should increase some other dimensions to make up for it?

I have ordered four D4 drivers from Stereo Integrity. they are supposed to start shipping by end of the month. im still shopping around for the BB plywood as i feel like im paying too much where i have been getting it(Manns Lumber).

I should start building the cabinets in the next couple weeks. i wanted to start this thread to hopefully start getting some input and im sure there are a lot of folks planning builds with these so i hope it helps them as well.

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post #2 of 266 Old 12-17-2012, 08:02 PM
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Gorilla83's subs received the nickname "The Silverbacks", so i figured i would pay homage to that and call my project "The Grizzlies" since they will have a old school rustic look to them. Maybe nicknames are earned not given. i dont know. biggrin.gif
I have decided to build these after reading through Gorilla83's thread for his dual opposed Dayton HO18 subs. i was going to build those, but i jumped on the sale Amazon is having on the EP4000 amps and bought two of them instead of the more expensive, yet better matched CV5000. I wouldnt be able to get the power i wanted to the Daytons with these amps due to the limited wiring options. The SI HT18's have a dual 4ohm VC which allows me to wire two drivers in each cab into a 4 ohm load. That will put about 1000 watts into each driver which should do the trick. the pre-order price also saves me some cash. so im hoping i can get the same performance as the Daytons on a CV5000 amp for less cool.gif
I am using 13 ply 3/4" Baltic Birch for the cabinet. My box design is the same as Gorilla83's except i am going to recess the entire baffle 1.25". This will require me to increase the total depth by 2.5" making the dimensions 25H x 23W x 31.25D. To do this, im going to be adding blocking inside to support the baffle. the blocking will be 3/4" x 3/4" and 15' total. this decreases the interior volume by 101.24 cubic inches. i wonder if thats ok, or if i should increase some other dimensions to make up for it?
I have ordered four D4 drivers from Stereo Integrity. they are supposed to start shipping by end of the month. im still shopping around for the BB plywood as i feel like im paying too much where i have been getting it(Manns Lumber).
I should start building the cabinets in the next couple weeks. i wanted to start this thread to hopefully start getting some input and im sure there are a lot of folks planning builds with these so i hope it helps them as well.

Awesome.

I went with the SI's for the same reasons (plus DB.com gave them great reviews). I have 6 on order. I gave a friend of mine a deal of the day on my Ultra so I'll be subless for a bit. frown.gif

I have a feeling this forum is really going to start cranking over the next few weeks.

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post #3 of 266 Old 12-17-2012, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope you do a thread on your build as well. I would love to see it

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post #4 of 266 Old 12-17-2012, 08:24 PM
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Lots of cool projects popping off on AVS lately. Exciting stuff!! Good luck on the build...I will be watching it.
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post #5 of 266 Old 12-17-2012, 09:17 PM
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Awesome.
I went with the SI's for the same reasons (plus DB.com gave them great reviews). I have 6 on order. I gave a friend of mine a deal of the day on my Ultra so I'll be subless for a bit. frown.gif

You have a friend buying your 4 Dayton HO's and another buying your Ultra? Wow, that works out nice! (note to self...need to find more cool friends...)
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post #6 of 266 Old 12-17-2012, 09:21 PM
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You have a friend buying your 4 Dayton HO's and another buying your Ultra? Wow, that works out nice! (note to self...need to find more cool friends...)

LOL, We always joke about seeing who can spend the most of each others money. I had ulterior motives by getting everyone I know addicted to HT. biggrin.gif

My friend who bought the Ultra came out just fine. I paid $2,400 for it a few years back and he picked it up for $500.00. I offered to build him a single SI with EP2000 for that and he chose the Ultra. Go figure. smile.gif

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post #7 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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i just googled how many cubic inches are in a cubic foot. 1728!! I dont think the 101.25 cubic inches from the blocking is going to make a difference LOL tongue.gif

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post #8 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 11:27 AM
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i just googled how many cubic inches are in a cubic foot. 1728!! I dont think the 101.25 cubic inches from the blocking is going to make a difference LOL tongue.gif

Google>5th grade math.

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post #9 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Google>5th grade math.

yeah yeah yeah. not sure what i was thinking. i should have converted the inches to feet then multiplied. i dont remember what i did.

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post #10 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 11:41 AM
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Haha. I was just messing.

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post #11 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha. I was just messing.

I know. It was deserved though.

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post #12 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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i started shopping around more for the BB plywood since i was hearing everyone getting these great deals. i actually got a great quote from Lowes, believe it or not! they have to order it of course, but $67 a 4 x 8 sheet sounds great to me!! we shall see if its the real deal. i was paying $100 eek.gif

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post #13 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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im wondering if my net internal volume of about 6.4 ft^ is going to be correct

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post #14 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 07:26 PM
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Pulled from the other thread.

SI's model quite a bit differently than the Daytons. The Daytons do well in a little smaller cab as they can take a bit more power. Recommended cab is 4 cf for the Daytons and 6 cf for the SI.

Dual 2ohm can be wired for a 4ohm load. That's about 950 per woofer which is a little more than I'd put to them. From what I've gathered off DB and the likes, 750 is about max.

So you have two ways to go depending on what you want to accomplish.

1) Throttle back the 4000's and build a slightly larger cab

2) Push the 750 at them (which still leaves you a little headroom) and reduce the cab size. I personally feel your current cab size is too small for the SI's, regardless of wattage. I think you are giving up some low end by going this route.

I just modeled these and it appears a box of about 10 net cubes each with 750 watts would be about perfect. Your line sits almost exactly 2 db's below mine (modeling 6 with 2500 watts) through the whole frequency range. The excursion never gets out of hand either.
In the box you are looking at building, you lose a ton of output, and the qtc starts skyrocketing.

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post #15 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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interesting. WinISD is telling me the optimum volume for two in one cab is 6.98ft^. theres no option for power though. i thought these modeled similar to the Daytons?

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post #16 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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10ft^ is pretty big. 27W x 29H x 31.75D eek.gif

this from a guy replacing two THT's biggrin.gif

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post #17 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 07:53 PM
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interesting. WinISD is telling me the optimum volume for two in one cab is 6.98ft^. theres no option for power though. i thought these modeled similar to the Daytons?

I'm sure someone smarter than me will chime in shortly. smile.gif

When I model exact same airspace with exact same watts the SI's have about a db of more output. That's figuring 3k watts at 8cf net space. When comparing them both in smaller boxes the Dayton holds the advantage with more output and lower qtc.

IMO, if you needed smaller cabs, I would have leaned towards the Daytons.

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post #18 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 07:57 PM
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10ft^ is pretty big. 27W x 29H x 31.75D eek.gif
this from a guy replacing two THT's biggrin.gif

Tell me about it. I'm looking at going with 36 cubes between 2 cabs. eek.gif This is when I miss my LMS lol.

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post #19 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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i dont need smaller cabs. these are stil small enough to fit under a screen etc. i just want to make sure im building the right size for them and my amps. i thought Ricci tested these in the same size box?

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post #20 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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all the threads i have read talk about using this driver in the same size box as the Dayton. in fact, Gorilla is going to test two of them in his same boxes he has the Daytons in. making these boxes 10ft^ is also a much less efficient use of plywood. it takes double the sheets!!

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post #21 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ba, you sure your not calculating for a ported box? smile.gif

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post #22 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
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i just googled how many cubic inches are in a cubic foot. 1728!! I dont think the 101.25 cubic inches from the blocking is going to make a difference LOL tongue.gif

Google>5th grade math.

eek.gif Took until the fifth grade to multiply three numbers? Google on the other hand exceeds many college students' capabilities in a variety of areas. We didn't even have electronic calculators.

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post #23 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 10:48 PM
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Ba, you sure your not calculating for a ported box? smile.gif

Yup, I'm sure. smile.gif

You keep mentioning using the same box size as the Daytons, but that is a recommended net 4cf. My concern is mainly based on this. 4 cf net is the smallest cab I would personally put them in. You mentioned mirroring gorillas build at like 6+ cf per pair. I think that is way too small. We're only talking about a couple db's here and there, but at a minimum 4 cf you are well below over excursion at your wattage, and the qtc is much better.

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post #24 of 266 Old 12-18-2012, 11:03 PM
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Yup, I'm sure. smile.gif
You keep mentioning using the same box size as the Daytons, but that is a recommended net 4cf. My concern is mainly based on this. 4 cf net is the smallest cab I would personally put them in. You mentioned mirroring gorillas build at like 6+ cf per pair. I think that is way too small. We're only talking about a couple db's here and there, but at a minimum 4 cf you are well below over excursion at your wattage, and the qtc is much better.

I see most of this has been answered in the SI thread. smile.gif

I'm back to fighting building stupid fabric frames. cool.gif

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post #25 of 266 Old 12-19-2012, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Well it seemed like Scott also agreed with you that they could use a bigger cab. I'm still not sure what size to go with :/

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post #26 of 266 Old 12-19-2012, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I want to put these in cabs big enough to get the most out of them but I also want to use all my amps power. I'm not afraid of putting 1000 watts on each driver so what would be the best size for that?

They seemed to perform well in Ricci's 4 ft^ cabs as well though. I'm going to have to put windows on the computer just so I can use the modeling programs.

I'm using about the same power as Gorilla. Wouldn't I get similar results with his cab size?

If these have to be in bigger boxes, I may just have to build these as singles to use the sheets more efficiently.

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post #27 of 266 Old 12-19-2012, 05:21 AM
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1000 watts on the si (yellow) and the dayton (red) both in 4 cubic feet sealed.

cone excursion is 23mm si, 20mm dayton, both of which are fine (and actually won't be quite that high in reality).



here are dual opposed with 2000 watts total per cab in 6 cubic feet total cab volume.

spl and cone motion are slightly less per driver because the cabs are 3 cubic feet per driver.



anything between 6 and 8 cubic feet would be fine for a dual opposed with 1000 watts per driver with either of them.

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post #28 of 266 Old 12-19-2012, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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cool cool.gif They both look extremely close and it looks like i can keep my 6.37ft^ volume smile.gif

i would think after room gain and EQ they would be equal.

BA, maybe you can rethink the 36ft^? unless your trying to get EVERY once of spl out of them? still getting some nice output even before room gain. and thats with just one DO box!

Thanks, LTD02. So many great resources in this community. im still going to get Winblows so i can model this stuff myself. ill need it if i ever get an Omnimic anyway!

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post #29 of 266 Old 12-19-2012, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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so back to the original outer dimensions. 23W x 25H x 31.25D. with drivers and bracing gives a net volume of 6.4ft^

Im going to use all 3/4 Baltic Birch. even the bracing. here is the cut list for two dual opposed cabs.

DO SI HT18 Project.pdf 211k .pdf file
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File Type: pdf DO SI HT18 Project.pdf (210.9 KB, 107 views)

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post #30 of 266 Old 12-19-2012, 09:22 AM
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I am following this thread closely! I have two 18" SI HT d2s on the way as well and have been thinking about going dual opposed.
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