7.1 on an $1800 DIY budget - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been tasked by my father to make the HT in his new home sound like the one in mine. I think I can get him close, until we get to the subs. The floor plan is open, with the kitchen/dining area behind the main seating, three ajoining hallways, tall ceilings, tile floor, floor to ceiling glass on the long wall. They want for the mains, sub, and center to be in cabinet on the floor that is 12' long and 2' tall, with a 70' plasma screen above it. The builder won't let us do anything until the home has closed, my mother says "no!" on in or on-wall mains, or horn subs in the ceiling. The surrounds in the ceiling with unlimited space in the attic above. Two more surrounds in a different area on a different channel.

Completed:




Here is what I am thinking, but I really need you guys to throw in some ideas, especially with the DIY main, surrounds, sub build options. 4.6 cubes max on sub.

Onkyo 717 - not included in budget #s

mains
Zaph ZDT3.5 - around $250 each
http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

center
Zaph ZD3C - around $250 each

surrounds
Classix II kit - around $100 each x 6
http://meniscusaudio.com/classixii-pair-p-1333.html

sub
Dayton RSS460 HO 18" - $250
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...gn=email092012

Dayton 1000w plate amp $270


Thanks for your input,
Doug

Last edited by d_c; 08-30-2014 at 07:56 PM.
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post #2 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 02:15 PM
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if you have unlimited attic space, why not do a infinite baffle sub?

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post #3 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 02:47 PM
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Smack the builder upside the head with a reminder that this isn't 2004. It probably won't help but it doesn't sound like you are cooking up something that would make the house harder to market or screw up permitting (of course that will vary dramatically by permitting agency).

At least get your speaker wire, coax, Cat 5/6, and HDMI cables run where you want to support the home theater and zone 2 & 3.
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post #4 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

if you have unlimited attic space, why not do a infinite baffle sub?

I didn't even think of IB - it is one that I have never used and I know almost nothing about it. What would you recommend Brian?
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post #5 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

Smack the builder upside the head with a reminder that this isn't 2004. It probably won't help but it doesn't sound like you are cooking up something that would make the house harder to market or screw up permitting (of course that will vary dramatically by permitting agency).
At least get your speaker wire, coax, Cat 5/6, and HDMI cables run where you want to support the home theater and zone 2 & 3.

Totally agree. For the kind of money they are forking over, you would think that there would be some freedom. The won't let them even add an outlet if it is not in one of their model options - literally. The builder's electrician will add each one for $120 after the closing, and it won't pass the inspection if you sneak in with your $5 in supplies and add one yourself. Typical Naples golf course community thing. They will drop cable for up to 7.1 surround per the contract and I will run the RF and other wiring out to the patio. They want to keep it clean, so we don't turn off a future buyer that is afraid of too much aftermarket-looking "speaker stuff" that we folk think is necessary. The restriction of the mains on the floor and under 24" already screws up axis...
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post #6 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post

I didn't even think of IB - it is one that I have never used and I know almost nothing about it. What would you recommend Brian?

i have never done one since i dont have the option, but if i did i would check out this site:

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi

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post #7 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool site, thanks for the link. i am interested to hear a few IB drivers in an array or manifold as they suggest. I think a look at these is in order as two 15's IB mounted in a manifold in the ceiling directly above and inbetween the mains would leave some room in the cabinetry. The opening for an IB manifold can be as small as 15 x 12" but the output would still be much less than a single 18 sealed, and more money with a large hole in the ceiling. I would move to an 18" THTPL in the ceiling if that size vent was accepted by the CEO (my mother). I have 8 sheets of Arauco on order from HD for my build of these in my own basemnent HT #2. This idea of a THTLP for my parents project was already shot down. So the IB solution would be out as well.
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post #8 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 05:08 PM
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What about:

3x SEOS-12 + deltalite flat pack / kit for LCR

4x JBL8340's for surrounds, you can find them everywhere for cheap, 50-100 each.

1-4x stereo integrity 18" co-located in 4.5cuft sealed boxes
or
1-4x RSS460 HO 18" co-lcated in 4.5cuft sealed boxes
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post #9 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 05:53 PM
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I don't think your understanding how a infinite baffle works. Two 15's into an attic would be WAY more output than a sealed 18.

Think of it this way. The attic becomes the enclosure.

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post #10 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

What about:
3x SEOS-12 + deltalite flat pack / kit for LCR
4x JBL8340's for surrounds, you can find them everywhere for cheap, 50-100 each.
1-4x stereo integrity 18" co-located in 4.5cuft sealed boxes
or
1-4x RSS460 HO 18" co-lcated in 4.5cuft sealed boxes

Those all look nice. I have been been looking at Troels' DTQWT MkII using the Deltalite 2510's for a 2c setup for myself. I like the idea of those with the waveguide for the fronts... very interested there. Do you have these, or have you heard them? I like the JBL monitors, but would really like to build each part. I'll keep my eyes on them though. The cheapest I see are $550 for a pair so far, but I only looked for a few minutes there. I forgot about the SI sub. I need to model that against the Dayton. Thanks for the ideas!

edit: The SI is top of the list so far, as long as it ships. Neither the SI or 18" Dayton are shipping now. I just assumed it was more expensive. That one is a steal as long as it is quality.
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post #11 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Brian - I definitely don't know much about them, but the nutshell version that I took away from the IB site was that even though comparing IB with confined enclosures is apples to oranges; two IB 15s is about what one enclosed 15 would be, with a more accurate sound coming from the IB system. The manifold is still IB using the attic as the enclosure taking up less real estate in the ceiling. The Cult of the Infintely Baffled FAQ states, "...a single 15" in a ported or seal box can play quite a bit louder (be driven harder) than a single 15" mounted in an IB. So depending on the room, the listener, and other variables, it can take 2 to 4 times more drivers in an IB, to equal the output of a box sub."

I might love 'em, but I can't use this for this project. I appreciate the awesome idea though and IB is definitely on my radar for a rainy day at my own house.
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post #12 of 33 Old 12-26-2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post

Brian - I definitely don't know much about them, but the nutshell version that I took away from the IB site was that even though comparing IB with confined enclosures is apples to oranges; two IB 15s is about what one enclosed 15 would be, with a more accurate sound coming from the IB system. The manifold is still IB using the attic as the enclosure taking up less real estate in the ceiling. The Cult of the Infintely Baffled FAQ states, "...a single 15" in a ported or seal box can play quite a bit louder (be driven harder) than a single 15" mounted in an IB. So depending on the room, the listener, and other variables, it can take 2 to 4 times more drivers in an IB, to equal the output of a box sub."
I might love 'em, but I can't use this for this project. I appreciate the awesome idea though and IB is definitely on my radar for a rainy day at my own house.

Yes. That is true but your putting those drivers up into the attic. Out of sight. And they need less power than sealed setups. They would be invisible.

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post #13 of 33 Old 12-27-2012, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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post #14 of 33 Old 12-27-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

What about:
3x SEOS-12 + deltalite flat pack / kit for LCR
4x JBL8340's for surrounds, you can find them everywhere for cheap, 50-100 each.

Where do you find used JBL 8430's for $50-100 each? I think that's exactly what I need for my theater setup. A little large but looks like high sensitivity and good dispersion. Designed to be wall-mounted.

For Subwoofers, you might consider getting a Behringer iNuke 1000 dsp and getting 2 of the Dayton 15" DVC drivers. This will allow you to do some EQ and room placement. But if you do go with the RSS460HO-4, which is a nice sub, you'll want more like 500W instead of 100W.
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post #15 of 33 Old 12-27-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post

Any other ideas for DIY mains or surrounds?
So far the ZDT 3.5, SEOS-12, JBL8340, Nat P...
modula MT for surrounds and patio, about $110 each:
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13154

I think the SEOS is better suited then most of those, at least for home theater.
They are constant directivity designs with great sensitivity, so they would play loud and clear, up and over reference levels, with lots more headroom.

I own the Wayne's 4Pi's and they are the best speakers I've ever heard. I decided to build them because I could get the compression drivers from Erich in the SEOS thread, and at the time, there wasn't any designs finished.
They are similar both in look and design to the SEOS stuff. After all, a lot of the crossover work was based off of his research.

They may be stressing your budget though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

Where do you find used JBL 8430's for $50-100 each? I think that's exactly what I need for my theater setup. A little large but looks like high sensitivity and good dispersion. Designed to be wall-mounted.
For Subwoofers, you might consider getting a Behringer iNuke 1000 dsp and getting 2 of the Dayton 15" DVC drivers. This will allow you to do some EQ and room placement. But if you do go with the RSS460HO-4, which is a nice sub, you'll want more like 500W instead of 100W.

Ebay has them up cheap sometimes, a few weeks ago there was about 10-20 sold in singles.
I would check US / Canuck audio mart depending on where you live as well.
I suppose I shouldn't have said easy tongue.gif , but they can be found.
After building a DIY L/C/R I was feeling too lazy to do surround so that's why I bought em.
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post #16 of 33 Old 12-27-2012, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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oops, I meant 1000w plate amp, which I could jump to the EP4000 for another $5 since I will most likely be going sealed on this sub
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post #17 of 33 Old 12-28-2012, 05:48 AM
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If you are going to DIY a sub I highly recommend making it a passive sub with a standalone amp. It gives you a lot more flexibility.
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post #18 of 33 Old 12-28-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

If you are going to DIY a sub I highly recommend making it a passive sub with a standalone amp. It gives you a lot more flexibility.

I agree that for you or me it would be better for expansion. I thought for my dad a plate amp would be like having an "Easy" button. My parents are at my house for 2 weeks over the holidays and each night we watch a movie. After last night I mentioned that if we went to a pro amp and the SI 18, we could get closer to my low end levels than with just 1000w on the plate. He says "do it!" I run two CSS SDX15s tuned to 19hz with an EP4000 bridged for each sub. Sounds pretty decent.
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post #19 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Sub duty is complete. SI 18 D2 powered by an iNuke 1000DSP, cable, enclosure, finish: $545


For the surround, I chose a design sold by the guys at Meniscus Audio. It is the Classix II with a Vifa DPJ38 Tweeter and Dayton Classic 6.5" woofer, detailed crossover designed for the budget drivers. I have already put two together for testing, and they sound fantastic, especially for a $155 pair, ridiculous actually. I gave them a listen over several beers tonight - enough that I shouldn't be anywhere near the internet.

It looks terrible, but it's accurate in parameters for the sound.
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post #20 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some photos of my build for the final enclosures.






I use a razor sharp chisel to push the MDF, very little finish to do after
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post #21 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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post #22 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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So anyways , I delete 2 letters for every one I type due to it being Friday and beer is delicious, so I'll give a more detailed account of what I'm doing here when my head hurts more tomorrow.
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post #23 of 33 Old 02-02-2013, 10:19 AM
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Nice job man, I'm sure those Classix II's sound great.
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post #24 of 33 Old 06-21-2013, 08:52 PM
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Any update on the Classix? I'm wanting to build them for my speaker B output, but have some reservations...
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post #25 of 33 Old 06-25-2013, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of the finished project. Sorry I dropped the ball on the updated pics. I flew down to Florida and installed everything several months ago and am very happy with how it turned out. My dad built and installed the enclosures for the surrounds with a fake baffle and talked the builder in to running the wires the way we wanted. I had some trouble getting the router to play nice with the the Onkyo 709, but once I figured it out, everything was smooth sailing setting up networking (freaking awesome!), Audessy, and other tweaking. Anyways, here are some photos of the rest of the build and install.

Some better sub pics:




Finished surround baffle:


Crossovers for the LCR complete. I had Meniscus finish a set for me that I could copy for the other two:


Baffles for LCR:
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post #26 of 33 Old 06-25-2013, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #27 of 33 Old 06-25-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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post #28 of 33 Old 06-25-2013, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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post #29 of 33 Old 06-25-2013, 01:56 PM
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The build quality is really nice but I wonder if that driver layout is ok to use for the Zaph 3.5? I didn't see a layout like that in the plans.

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post #30 of 33 Old 06-25-2013, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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We managed to build this between golf and beers. Stain and fabric went on after I had to head back to KC and Mom and Pops did a great job fishing it up. I wanted to try the Kreg Pocket Jig set on the this - I'm in love with it now. Uba Tuba granite tops it, but I have managed to lose the pic of that somehow.



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