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post #331 of 538 Old 01-27-2013, 07:06 PM
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Damn you guys. Now I'm looking into these as well.

I would really love to have Noesis fronts, but I just can't afford them. With a flat pack to put together like this, looking as good as they do, performing as well as they do.... damn. I'm very interested.
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post #332 of 538 Old 01-27-2013, 07:25 PM
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"No subs, B&C's full range, 1/24 smoothing, post XT32 run, from the LP 18 feet away. Extension was the same without EQ, but I did have a good sized peak at 100hz. Check this $hit out! Extension to 19-20hz."

is it possible that xt32 is putting a lot of eq on your speakers 'under' their tuning frequency and setting them up for potential damage?

i didn't catch what the tuning frequency is on those enclosures.

i'm also pretty surprised that you were able to clip an ep amp on them with music. or, was that again with a ton of eq from xt32?

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post #333 of 538 Old 01-27-2013, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Only a matter of time before I broke the omnimic out.

No subs, B&C's full range, 1/24 smoothing, post XT32 run, from the LP 18 feet away. Extension was the same without EQ, but I did have a good sized peak at 100hz. Check this $hit out! Extension to 19-20hz. biggrin.gif BTW I also ran the sweeps up to 110 where the sweep looks exactly the same. Thought I grabbed one of those too, but I guess not. Any more output past that and the omnimic gave me a mic overload. biggrin.gif


SEE!!!

Now that's what I'm talking about. Now everyone can stop saying my quad sealed 2226's "won't have very good bass".

F**king epic! Stuff those babies up, run full range and enable double bass. Profit. biggrin.gif

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post #334 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Damn you guys. Now I'm looking into these as well.

I would really love to have Noesis fronts, but I just can't afford them. With a flat pack to put together like this, looking as good as they do, performing as well as they do.... damn. I'm very interested.

These seem to be an awesome higher end option for those willing to spend a few hours to finish the enclosure. Buying the flat pack from Erich would save a TON of time in cutting, assembly, and finishing. They aren't the Noesis, but at less than 1/4 the cost they will make you very happy. biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

SEE!!!

Now that's what I'm talking about. Now everyone can stop saying my quad sealed 2226's "won't have very good bass".

F**king epic! Stuff those babies up, run full range and enable double bass. Profit. biggrin.gif

Damn right! Dude, you're JBL midbass is going to be killer. You might want to turn your subs off from time to time to let them do their thing. biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"No subs, B&C's full range, 1/24 smoothing, post XT32 run, from the LP 18 feet away. Extension was the same without EQ, but I did have a good sized peak at 100hz. Check this $hit out! Extension to 19-20hz."

is it possible that xt32 is putting a lot of eq on your speakers 'under' their tuning frequency and setting them up for potential damage?

i didn't catch what the tuning frequency is on those enclosures.

i'm also pretty surprised that you were able to clip an ep amp on them with music. or, was that again with a ton of eq from xt32?

LTD - Audyssey didn't appear to add any boost really anywhere with these when I toggled it on/off. It did however tame some pretty nasty peaks around 100hz and 500hz IIRC. XT32 seems to work much better with mains for me than with my subs where it does little to nothing useful for me. They are tuned to ~46hz so my room is adding some decent gain down low.

When I did my initial test with the EP and it was tapping the clip lights during peaks, I hadn't run Audyssey yet and EQ was off. They appear to be able to take some power! The B&C driver is rated at 1100W program.
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post #335 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Yup. That's what I expected to see. That's why I love big cabinets with a big horn. Can't wait to see near-field measurements, I've got a really good feeling about this.

Yes sir, looking forward to hearing your impressions once you come listen as well. I'm sure within the next few weekends we can line something up.
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Sweet! those will sound really good in straight 2 channel i bet. have you tried them full range without the subs for music?

Yes, the first hour or so I listened to straight music with no subs and they sounded great. Midbass is killer, especially considering it's still a relatively high sensitivity speaker. My initial impressions I posted in this thread were with no subs. biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Crazy... Very impressive.. If you build seven of these.... biggrin.gif:D

Seven! Honestly if I could place them in my room and had the space for them as surrounds/rear surrounds I probably would. biggrin.gif
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post #336 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Question for Matt/Erich/others in terms of surround selection:

I'm looking closely at either the Minion (alpha-8) or the delta max (fusion-10) for side and rear surrounds. I noticed there is quite a difference in sensitivity between the two (92db for the minion vs. 98db on the max). How much of a difference will this factor make alone? I have room for either as surrounds and the cost difference is minimal. Either would be powered from my receiver, the Denon 4311.

Thoughts?
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post #337 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 08:46 AM
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The Fusion 10 Max will gives you higher sensitivity I see about 4dB more in the bass range modeling the two, at the cost of an enclosure about twice a large. It does use the SEOS-12 so you will get better directivity control also. Really it come down to sensitivity vs compact size, as you have plenty of space and plan on powering it with your receiver the fusion 10 will give you more output.

Here is what I see plugging in the two into WinISD with 140 watts:
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post #338 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

The Fusion 10 Max will gives you higher sensitivity I see about 4dB more in the bass range modeling the two, at the cost of an enclosure about twice a large. It does use the SEOS-12 so you will get better directivity control also. Really it come down to sensitivity vs compact size, as you have plenty of space and plan on powering it with your receiver the fusion 10 will give you more output.

Here is what I see plugging in the two into WinISD with 140 watts:

Thanks Matt. The Fusion 10's are nearly the same size as my SHOs which fit pretty nicely in the surround area. The rear surrounds are used so little I may just wind up leaving my Klipsch there for now.
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post #339 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 11:15 AM
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andrew, my fusion kits show up tomorrow, just from the baffel they seem larger than i remember your SHOs being, but i could just be confused by how small the look next to the 15s
Tempests just shipped as well.

Yours look fantastic BTW
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post #340 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

andrew, my fusion kits show up tomorrow, just from the baffel they seem larger than i remember your SHOs being, but i could just be confused by how small the look next to the 15s
Tempests just shipped as well.

Yours look fantastic BTW

Thanks Adam!

SHOs are 19" H x 11.5" W x 9.6" D
Fusion 10s are 21H x 14.5"w x " x 10.75" deep.

They are a tad bigger, especially in width but should not be an issue. Still tiny compared to the Sentinels though. wink.gif
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post #341 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 12:38 PM
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And the new Jeff Bagby design of the Fusion-8 Alchemy at 94dB could be a good fit too, since it's a couple dB more sensitive than the Minion?

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post #342 of 538 Old 01-28-2013, 02:09 PM
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"Audyssey didn't appear to add any boost really anywhere with these when I toggled it on/off. It did however tame some pretty nasty peaks around 100hz and 500hz IIRC. XT32 seems to work much better with mains for me than with my subs where it does little to nothing useful for me. They are tuned to ~46hz so my room is adding some decent gain down low."

that is some pretty amazing room gain that you have there. below is the winisd model over your measured response.

that dip around 200hz might be a side wall reflection. 1/4 wavelength to a boundary will cause a cancellation. 200hz correlates to about 17 inches @ 1/4 wavelength. might be getting some floor reflections too.

the 46hz tuning may seem a little high to some, but looking at the various models, i think it is right on the money for that driver in that enclosure for this purpose. props to the designer.


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post #343 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Interesting assessment LTD. I wonder if the reflections are caused because the speakers are now sitting so low close to the floor. I'll be building some stands for them shortly which should raise them up (7" higher) to where my wall treatments are mounted.

Matt and I have also been PM'ing back and forth for some crossover tweaks that will be done to help smooth out response as well. I've ordered the parts and will be installing them soon as well as stuffing the box with a bit more fill. More sweeps to come.

Thanks for your help as well LTD!
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post #344 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

And the new Jeff Bagby design of the Fusion-8 Alchemy at 94dB could be a good fit too, since it's a couple dB more sensitive than the Minion?

Wow, I didn't even see that. That's some crazy performance in a small package for a very small cost. The minion has a bit higher power handling, but not sure if that would be utilized with my receiver.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion8-kit.html

I'm thinking I might go with something slightly larger in the event that the L/C/R is beefed up at some point. biggrin.gif
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post #345 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 06:06 AM
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If only the Minion had the efficiency of the Fusion then the extra headroom would be worth it but going by the numbers the +2 db of the Fusion 8 probably matters more. The fusion 10 seems like a much better option because it is that much more efficient and you could use the lower crossover point on your surrounds - like with the Minion - while running them with only 1/4 the power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Wow, I didn't even see that. That's some crazy performance in a small package for a very small cost. The minion has a bit higher power handling, but not sure if that would be utilized with my receiver.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion8-kit.html

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post #346 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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At this point it's looking like the Fusion-10 is in the lead. For now I guess I will hook my SHO-10s up and see how they sound in surround duty. cool.gif It's a shame I don't have a 4th SHO as I could run them as rear surrounds too.
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post #347 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Wow, I didn't even see that. That's some crazy performance in a small package for a very small cost. The minion has a bit higher power handling, but not sure if that would be utilized with my receiver.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion8-kit.html

I'm thinking I might go with something slightly larger in the event that the L/C/R is beefed up at some point. biggrin.gif

Why whatever do you mean?? It sounds like you may have something in mind... biggrin.gif

Muhahahaha
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post #348 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

At this point it's looking like the Fusion-10 is in the lead. For now I guess I will hook my SHO-10s up and see how they sound in surround duty. cool.gif It's a shame I don't have a 4th SHO as I could run them as rear surrounds too.

depending on how high you mount them you may consider flipping the SHOs upside down. It made a noticeable difference in my room.
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post #349 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 09:46 AM
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I'm thinking I might go with something slightly larger in the event that the L/C/R is beefed up at some point.

Ha, cough cough (me choking)

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #350 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Why whatever do you mean?? It sounds like you may have something in mind... biggrin.gif
Muhahahaha

MOAR POWER!
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Originally Posted by zheka View Post

depending on how high you mount them you may consider flipping the SHOs upside down. It made a noticeable difference in my room.

I may give that a try. cool.gif

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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Ha, cough cough (me choking)

Perhaps we should include you in the convo with P-lock, myself, and Chop. biggrin.gif Sorry in advance. LOL.
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post #351 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 10:13 AM
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Perhaps we should include you in the convo with P-lock, myself, and Chop. Sorry in advance. LOL.

Austin already dangled that carrot, unless the LS6's go for sale, I'm not hungry, but I would still love to be a part of the convo.

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post #352 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 11:18 AM
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^^^Oh boy

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post #353 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Austin already dangled that carrot, unless the LS6's go for sale, I'm not hungry, but I would still love to be a part of the convo.

Shhhuuut upppp! hhhaha

Self dangling carrot. Inception...

We both know you are going to bite! Plus, you're going to have to stand in for me again when my wife rips out my jugular after she finds out I'm contemplating another build...

Don't EVEN act like you are seriously contemplating getting rid of the LS6's.

You were talking about buying a new house, just so you could build a dedicated 2.1 room for them...lol

Enabled.

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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Perhaps we should include you in the convo with P-lock, myself, and Chop. biggrin.gif Sorry in advance. LOL.

Do it...
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

MOAR POWER!
I may give that a try. cool.gif
Perhaps we should include you in the convo with P-lock, myself, and Chop. biggrin.gif Sorry in advance. LOL.

Got some good info today..convo updated and hopefully we will have some feedback soon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Only a matter of time before I broke the omnimic out.

No subs, B&C's full range, 1/24 smoothing, post XT32 run, from the LP 18 feet away. Extension was the same without EQ, but I did have a good sized peak at 100hz. Check this $hit out! Extension to 19-20hz. biggrin.gif BTW I also ran the sweeps up to 110 where the sweep looks exactly the same. Thought I grabbed one of those too, but I guess not. Any more output past that and the omnimic gave me a mic overload. biggrin.gif


Is blue before and red after?

JSS
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post #356 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Shhhuuut upppp! hhhaha

Self dangling carrot. Inception...

We both know you are going to bite! Plus, you're going to have to stand in for me again when my wife rips out my jugular after she finds out I'm contemplating another build...

Don't EVEN act like you are seriously contemplating getting rid of the LS6's.

You were talking about buying a new house, just so you could build a dedicated 2.1 room for them...lol

Enabled.
Do it...

That's what I was sayin'. Line array's for the bedroom.

*nods*

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #357 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

SEE!!!

Now that's what I'm talking about. Now everyone can stop saying my quad sealed 2226's "won't have very good bass".

F**king epic! Stuff those babies up, run full range and enable double bass. Profit. biggrin.gif

Your quad sealed 2226H PER FRONT CHANNEL should be the same as having two 15" Reference HF/HO drivers per front channel as far as LF displacement. Many people would consider that enough.

I cannot wait to see that build.

I love the explosion of SEOS builds. Great stuff.

JSS
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Shhhuuut upppp! hhhaha

Self dangling carrot. Inception...

We both know you are going to bite! Plus, you're going to have to stand in for me again when my wife rips out my jugular after she finds out I'm contemplating another build...

Don't EVEN act like you are seriously contemplating getting rid of the LS6's.

You were talking about buying a new house, just so you could build a dedicated 2.1 room for them...lol

Enabled.
Do it...

nope they are hanging tough in the back of the theater right now, glaring at me to hurry up and put them upstairs in the den. Just need someone to come and help me drag em up...New house? Hmmmm that takes this addiction to an unsafe level, but one I am willing to admit that whenever that time actually does come, a good space for a dedicated theater will be near the top of requirements. Too late...Too late...Too late to turn back nowwwww biggrin.gif

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That's what I was sayin'. Line array's for the bedroom.

*nods*

hehe, out of control. I could fund a certain new venture purely off the sale of these if I got what I wanted...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #359 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Your quad sealed 2226H PER FRONT CHANNEL should be the same as having two 15" Reference HF/HO drivers per front channel as far as LF displacement. Many people would consider that enough.

I cannot wait to see that build.

I love the explosion of SEOS builds. Great stuff.

JSS

Thanks, bro. Things are constantly stop and go with my build. I know you of all people are super excited to see it go up. I do believe I hit my very last snag (Christmas + Las Vegas Trip + SI 18HT mega order) and I'm not just waiting on my tax refund to pop up in the mail and I get everything all put together and installed.


Speaking of....

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #360 of 538 Old 01-29-2013, 04:04 PM
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I am pretty sure no one around will experience more 'mid bass punch' than when that wall gets put up....

Gorilla,

The reason I am concerned about your Audyssey trace is the way Audyssey goes about its business. It can boost below tuning by 9-10dB with ease. Please measure Audyssey on vs off to see what Audyssey is really doing, to ensure that AVR doesn't try anything stupid....

What year receiver?

JSS
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