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post #451 of 538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Nice to hear Andrew! I actually spent a bunch of time listening to them last night while I wa son the forum and researching. It really is amazing what they can do for $400! I said it in my thread and on diysound, but I auditioned the B&W CT8.4, the "budget" speaker of the top cinema line. It was weeks ago, and audio memory sucks, but I will say this. When listening, I try to catalogue my feelings in my head, so that once the sound is gone, I have an idea of what I was thinking....at no point when listening to the Sentinels did I think I should have bought the CTs. To me, that says a ton. A $3k a piece speaker with 500w, and it didnt' have the movie sound that the Sentinels do! I can't speak for music because I admittedly haven't listened to much on them, but for movies I agree with you 100%.


Just out of curiosity, how did the B&W CT8.4's sound? Can you give any sort of deeper comparison between the CT8.4's and your Seos? Did you demo any other speakers, and if so, which ones were they and how did they compare to your Seos? Of course, I realize that to do a proper comparison you would need to a/b them back to back, but I am just curious to hear your personal/subjective opinions.
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post #452 of 538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Nice to hear Andrew! I actually spent a bunch of time listening to them last night while I wa son the forum and researching. It really is amazing what they can do for $400! I said it in my thread and on diysound, but I auditioned the B&W CT8.4, the "budget" speaker of the top cinema line. It was weeks ago, and audio memory sucks, but I will say this. When listening, I try to catalogue my feelings in my head, so that once the sound is gone, I have an idea of what I was thinking....at no point when listening to the Sentinels did I think I should have bought the CTs. To me, that says a ton. A $3k a piece speaker with 500w, and it didnt' have the movie sound that the Sentinels do! I can't speak for music because I admittedly haven't listened to much on them, but for movies I agree with you 100%.


Just out of curiosity, how did the B&W CT8.4's sound? Can you give any sort of deeper comparison between the CT8.4's and your Seos? Did you demo any other speakers, and if so, which ones were they and how did they compare to your Seos? Of course, I realize that to do a proper comparison you would need to a/b them back to back, but I am just curious to hear your personal/subjective opinions.
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post #453 of 538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Just out of curiosity, how did the B&W CT8.4's sound? Can you give any sort of deeper comparison between the CT8.4's and your Seos? Did you demo any other speakers, and if so, which ones were they and how did they compare to your Seos? Of course, I realize that to do a proper comparison you would need to a/b them back to back, but I am just curious to hear your personal/subjective opinions.

The Ct8.4s imaged wonderfully and clarity was great form what I remember..they were just too "flat" sounding, no dynamic capability in comparison to the Sentinels. I am willing to bet, based on the sound of the Sentinels in my far less than ideal temporary testing spot, I think the sents will do just as well in most other catagories and far better with dynamics.

I have listened to so many over the last couple years, and for years for that matter. Most recently, Triad gold lcr, which I thought the Sentinels beat out handily. The triads were a bit underpowered, but in a well designed room. I love the sound and balance of Legacy speakers, namely the signature se model. Its been too long for a comarison, but when sitting in the sweet spot, those sigs are tough to beat in imaging and clarity. The problem with them is one foot of verticle variation in your listening postion, the sound goes down the toilet. Apparently the new air motion ribbons helps, but I would only buy these for a 2 channel rig with a fixed, single Lp. Back to the CT8.4s, I would take the Sentinels for HT use any day!
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post #454 of 538 Old 02-09-2013, 11:45 AM
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Are these kits being shipped to EU? The website seems to indicate the aren't.

And what about the big BA-750 tweeter? I wouldn't mind spending an extra $100 if there are kits with it. Are there?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/ba-750.html

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post #455 of 538 Old 02-11-2013, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Are these kits being shipped to EU? The website seems to indicate the aren't.

And what about the big BA-750 tweeter? I wouldn't mind spending an extra $100 if there are kits with it. Are there?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/ba-750.html

I haven't heard anything about international shipping just yet from Erich.

Last I heard the BA-750 was out of stock for a while, at least a few months. There are currently no kits using that CD. What are your goals in terms of SPL, extension, room size, and budget?
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post #456 of 538 Old 02-11-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I haven't heard anything about international shipping just yet from Erich.

Last I heard the BA-750 was out of stock for a while, at least a few months. There are currently no kits using that CD. What are your goals in terms of SPL, extension, room size, and budget?

I'll give him an e-mail.

The room is large: 22' x 28' (semi dedicated). Listening distance is 12'. I already have two large subs each using a 18" Maelstrom, tuned to 13 Hz... I' like to hit reference level peak, so I'd like 115 dB at 1 meter (+/- 105 dB at 3m60/12'). I'd like a very potent system, that plays as cleanly and effortless as possible for the budget.

My starting point was the B&W CT700 series. This three-way with double woofer costs €1,500 each. That's my max budget, cabinet included. I found the CT7.3 a little small for the money.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Speakers/Custom_Installation/CT_Series/CT7.3-LCRS.html

So I am in the market for proven kits up to $1K. I was focussed on the Troels Gravesen DTQWT-12. This uses double 12" woofer on the back to load a tapered horn. The problem is the 8" midrange that is reported not to withstand high power. Recommended power for the speaker is 60 Watts. Although it's 95 dB/Watt efficient and is tuned to go down to 30 Hz, I don't think it will resist HT duty... I think total cost without cabinet is about €850 each.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/DTQWT-12.htm

BTW, I already have a Emotiva XPR-5 amp with 5 x 400 Watt/ 8ohm. I am also considering using active Emotiva stealth 8 monitors. That's a two-way with 2 x 200 Watt. I love the active crossover idea. And in theory, the stealth should just play loud enough. But the midwoofer is only 8". Price is $750 each (including the power ofcourse).
http://emotivapro.com/products/powered_monitors/stealth8.php

I also like this set:
http://www.teufelaudio.nl/home-cinema-thx/system-10-thx-ultra-2-certificaat-5.1-set-cinema-p5014.html
LCR is €1,500 each also. It gets very favorable reviews.

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post #457 of 538 Old 02-11-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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To give you some background:

My room is also quite large - width from 13' to 19' and length is 44'. Ceilings are about 8'. Listening position current is at 17 feet. Semi-dedicated room with side and corner treatments.

My sub setup is 8 x 18" Dayton 18" drivers in 4 dual opposed boxes powered by a FP14000 Sanway clone amplifier.. The subs easily play down to 6hz with authority. The Sentinels mentioned in this build have no trouble keeping up with them. smile.gif I'm powering them using a Behringer pro amp for now which is ~450 rms per channel. Your Emotiva XPR would work quite well. cool.gif With a ~1500 budget for each, you could build some REALLY killer mains. Check out the BMS group buy thread for ideas.
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post #458 of 538 Old 02-13-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Setup with new stands:



Next steps: Ceiling and additional wall treatments, and planning/build for false wall and Seymour XD AT screen. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif: D All DIY of course
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post #459 of 538 Old 02-13-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Setup with new stands:



Next steps: Ceiling and additional wall treatments, and planning/build for false wall and Seymour XD AT screen. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif: D All DIY of course

have you had any problem with your ceiling grid rattling? my space is about half the size of yours (and i have half as many 18" daytons as you) and my grid went nuts when the bass hits. i guess i couldn't really tell until i turned off all the speakers and just had the subs playing. but it was very annoying to hear all of the racket created by bass, and i couldn't imagine how much this affected the overall sound during playback, so i had to rip out the grid and put up drywall. i will be needing treatments as well, just curious about your experience with any rattles with the extreme output from your system
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post #460 of 538 Old 02-13-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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have you had any problem with your ceiling grid rattling? my space is about half the size of yours (and i have half as many 18" daytons as you) and my grid went nuts when the bass hits. i guess i couldn't really tell until i turned off all the speakers and just had the subs playing. but it was very annoying to hear all of the racket created by bass, and i couldn't imagine how much this affected the overall sound during playback, so i had to rip out the grid and put up drywall. i will be needing treatments as well, just curious about your experience with any rattles with the extreme output from your system

There are a LOT of things that rattle in the room. I've been slowly trying to snuff them out, but there is quite a bit to work on. The track/tiles themselves aren't too awful in scheme of things though. I've wrapped the light canisters, added dampening to the fixtures, etc. Even my drywall vibrates now, haha. I'm going to have with some level of vibrations with this much pressure in the room I guess. I've noticed that the back subs by themselves tend to rattle/excite the room FAR less though. smile.gif
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post #461 of 538 Old 02-13-2013, 07:04 PM
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quit kidding yourself andrew, your whole house rattles biggrin.gif
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post #462 of 538 Old 02-14-2013, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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quit kidding yourself andrew, your whole house rattles biggrin.gif

I'm pretty sure even my neighbor's house rattles. biggrin.gif
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post #463 of 538 Old 02-14-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bmg963 View Post

have you had any problem with your ceiling grid rattling? my space is about half the size of yours (and i have half as many 18" daytons as you) and my grid went nuts when the bass hits. i guess i couldn't really tell until i turned off all the speakers and just had the subs playing. but it was very annoying to hear all of the racket created by bass, and i couldn't imagine how much this affected the overall sound during playback, so i had to rip out the grid and put up drywall. i will be needing treatments as well, just curious about your experience with any rattles with the extreme output from your system

I am having trouble with mine, but as andrew already said, EVERYTHING rattles. I was doing test tones night before last and the walls were all flexing like half an inch in the back of the room with a 15hz tone smile.gif

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post #464 of 538 Old 02-14-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Setup with new stands:



Next steps: Ceiling and additional wall treatments, and planning/build for false wall and Seymour XD AT screen. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif: D All DIY of course


They look great. I hope everything works out and I can make it over in April to see/hear them in person, it would be nice to hear how they sound in stereo.
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post #465 of 538 Old 02-14-2013, 05:55 PM
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They look great. I hope everything works out and I can make it over in April to see/hear them in person, it would be nice to hear how they sound in stereo.

So you are coming!!!

Do it. Can't wait to meet you man.
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post #466 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Decided I'm going to bring the 'Sents up to the living room. I'm going to make some "stands" for them first (aka SI 18's), haha. Of course this will require I build a new entertainment stand to accommodate a vertical center as well. Lots of projects on the horizon - should keep me busy for a while.
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post #467 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 07:05 AM
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Decided I'm going to bring the 'Sents up to the living room. I'm going to make some "stands" for them first (aka SI 18's), haha. Of course this will require I build a new entertainment stand to accommodate a vertical center as well. Lots of projects on the horizon - should keep me busy for a while.

Wow, I would imagine that the Sent's sitting on some SI18's would be pretty nice! Are you planning on actively crossing over the Sent's and SI18's...kind of a quasi 3-way?
That is what I am trying to do with my Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's with the RAAL tweeter. I am using JBL2225's as mid-bass units that are actively crossing over to my bookshelf's
mid-range driver, then my mid and tweeter will crossover passively.

Good luck! I would imagine that when you get done, you will have a world class setup!
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post #468 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I would imagine that the Sent's sitting on some SI18's would be pretty nice! Are you planning on actively crossing over the Sent's and SI18's...kind of a quasi 3-way?
That is what I am trying to do with my Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's with the RAAL tweeter. I am using JBL2225's as mid-bass units that are actively crossing over to my bookshelf's
mid-range driver, then my mid and tweeter will crossover passively.

Good luck! I would imagine that when you get done, you will have a world class setup!

Yes I will use the receiver (Yamaha 1065) to cross over the subs to the mains. I've got 4 of the SI drivers sitting around since January from the GB so might as well finally put them to use. I'm thinking two singles up front and a dual opposed out back. Have to decide which amp(s) to use - I have an extra clone, XLS5000, and EP4000.
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post #469 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Decided I'm going to bring the 'Sents up to the living room. I'm going to make some "stands" for them first (aka SI 18's), haha. Of course this will require I build a new entertainment stand to accommodate a vertical center as well. Lots of projects on the horizon - should keep me busy for a while.

awesome biggrin.gif

for an idea of what the sents will look like on top of the SI18s just look at my pic of the Tempests on top of the daytons


also interested to see what you come up with for a stand
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post #470 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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awesome biggrin.gif

for an idea of what the sents will look like on top of the SI18s just look at my pic of the Tempests on top of the daytons


also interested to see what you come up with for a stand

I'm actually thinking of making two narrow but slightly taller stands in lieu of one single entertainment stand. This would give me the ability to place the center vertically under the TV and have stands on either side of it. It would be cool to build the relays right into the stand as well and have a built in 12V triggered power strip. biggrin.gif
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post #471 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 12:00 PM
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I'm actually thinking of making two narrow but slightly taller stands in lieu of one single entertainment stand. This would give me the ability to place the center vertically under the TV and have stands on either side of it. It would be cool to build the relays right into the stand as well and have a built in 12V triggered power strip. biggrin.gif



Wow that does sound like an awesome idea, Gorilla83! I am going some similar on my entertainment center actually being two separate stands.
Do you have any equipment rack in the back or in another room? Or are you building the entertainment center to house all of your equipment?
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post #472 of 538 Old 05-15-2013, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow that does sound like an awesome idea, Gorilla83! I am going some similar on my entertainment center actually being two separate stands.
Do you have any equipment rack in the back or in another room? Or are you building the entertainment center to house all of your equipment?

The receiver, amp for L/C/R, blu ray, and gaming stuff will remain in the entertainment center. Any of the noisy pro amps I'll be running for the subs will be located in an adjacent room and relay triggered. cool.gif
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post #473 of 538 Old 05-16-2013, 06:36 AM
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The receiver, amp for L/C/R, blu ray, and gaming stuff will remain in the entertainment center. Any of the noisy pro amps I'll be running for the subs will be located in an adjacent room and relay triggered. cool.gif


That sounds like a good idea, although if it were me, I would locate everything in an equipment rack either somewhere in the room where it is not sticking out,
or possibly in a closet. I have personally never had the luxury of having enough space for a separate rack, I just keep my gear in my entertainment center that houses
my TV. Hopefully one day soon when my wife graduates Law School then we can afford a nice house with a dedicated theater room instead of an el-cheapo apartment!
LoL! What kind of cable are you going to use to run to and from the pro-amps to the receiver? Speaking of which, what are you using as a receiver or pre/pro?
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post #474 of 538 Old 05-16-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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That sounds like a good idea, although if it were me, I would locate everything in an equipment rack either somewhere in the room where it is not sticking out,
or possibly in a closet. I have personally never had the luxury of having enough space for a separate rack, I just keep my gear in my entertainment center that houses
my TV. Hopefully one day soon when my wife graduates Law School then we can afford a nice house with a dedicated theater room instead of an el-cheapo apartment!
LoL! What kind of cable are you going to use to run to and from the pro-amps to the receiver? Speaking of which, what are you using as a receiver or pre/pro?

In this room (living room) I'd rather have the equipment easily accessible to swap Blu rays, put in games, etc. I do have another room nearby to hide some equipment, but I have kept that reserved for the pro audio equipment as needed. I'm currently using a Yamaha RX-V1065 as the pre-pro coupled with an Acurus amp. Thinking about upgrading to an Onkyo 818 as they seem to be getting cheaper by the day. I run a simple RCA to XLR cable to the pro amps in that room for the subs. This room used to be my main AV room before I built out the basement.
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post #475 of 538 Old 05-16-2013, 11:43 AM
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Thinking about upgrading to an Onkyo 818 as they seem to be getting cheaper by the day.

I just picked up an 818 for a friend of mine from One Call for 600.00 shipped (open box). That is a serious receiver for the money. I was pretty impressed with the feature set, especially compared to my 3009.

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post #476 of 538 Old 05-16-2013, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I just picked up an 818 for a friend of mine from One Call for 600.00 shipped (open box). That is a serious receiver for the money. I was pretty impressed with the feature set, especially compared to my 3009.

That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Did you just call them and ask if they had any open box units for a good price? I've heard they are selling new for 699 as well.
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post #477 of 538 Old 05-16-2013, 12:17 PM
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That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Did you just call them and ask if they had any open box units for a good price? I've heard they are selling new for 699 as well.

They actually had some on their website. It looks like they sold out but I'm sure they'll be getting more in. It arrived like new with all accessories.

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post #478 of 538 Old 05-17-2013, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

In this room (living room) I'd rather have the equipment easily accessible to swap Blu rays, put in games, etc. I do have another room nearby to hide some equipment, but I have kept that reserved for the pro audio equipment as needed. I'm currently using a Yamaha RX-V1065 as the pre-pro coupled with an Acurus amp. Thinking about upgrading to an Onkyo 818 as they seem to be getting cheaper by the day. I run a simple RCA to XLR cable to the pro amps in that room for the subs. This room used to be my main AV room before I built out the basement.


That makes sense. I have lived in a small apartment for several years, and being that I do not have space for a separate equipment rack, that has always made me want one! When the time comes to build a new house,
I will likely house most of my equipment in a rack that is outside of the room, but keep the bluray player and the cable box in-room.
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post #479 of 538 Old 05-30-2013, 08:25 PM
 
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What exactly is the difference between the Fusion-12 and Fusion-15? By frequency response and sensitivity, it seems the Fusion 12 go louder and lower? Even with the extra power handling on the Fusion-15, it doesn't make up for the 2 dB sensitivity. The Fusion-12 are cheaper, and smaller too, so what advantages does the Fusion-15 have over them?
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post #480 of 538 Old 05-30-2013, 08:43 PM
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Largest noticeable output difference will be the bottom end where the extra displacement comes in handy. At 80hz the Fusion-15 has a large (8dB) xmax limited output advantage.

Transfer function:


SPL:


Max SPL:
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