Dayton releases more new subs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got an email to the new sales flier and it appears Dayton has been busy...
Here is one of the new subs http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-512

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post #2 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 09:05 AM
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They looks cool. Too bad they are only in 10" and 12" sizes.


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post #3 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 09:12 AM
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I'm psyched about these. They look like a perfect fit for my 'sump basin' subwoofers.

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post #4 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

They looks cool. Too bad they are only in 10" and 12" sizes.

Yeah ,
I want to see 18's !!
I am glad they dont have them available now though because I have a quad of Fi IB3 18's coming cool.gif

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post #5 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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You have to wonder if Dayton has de-rated the xmax on these as much as they do on the RSS460.

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post #6 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 10:54 AM
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Best case scenario in a vented enclosure for the 12"? My WinISD skills failed me.
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post #7 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 11:29 AM
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Wonder what the bl is. Also I wish fs was under 20 hz, the motor size is decent.


Could be a good for a the sub but that fs.....


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post #8 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

Wonder what the bl is. Also I wish fs was under 20 hz, the motor size is decent.
Could be a good for a the sub but that fs.....


BL listed as 11.8

Looks pretty decent in 80L sealed, F3 is about 28.6 Hz, vs. 36 Hz for the RSS315HF-4. It can also handle a little more power, mostly due to XMAX I guess

For ported I think 5.5 cubic feet tuned to 20 Hz looks decent. YMMV. That's a pretty huge box for a 12" driver.

I have a hard time figuring out what exactly this driver is for though. Dayton has so many choices already. Could this be something they are making for an OEM to be used in a pricey off-the-shelf subwoofer?


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post #9 of 50 Old 12-27-2012, 02:54 PM
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How do these compare to the Peerless XL 12 inchers or even the Alpine sub?
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post #10 of 50 Old 12-28-2012, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genelec Man View Post

How do these compare to the Peerless XL 12 inchers or even the Alpine sub?

Well, the Peerless XLS is NLA and the Alpine Type R is also.
Compared to the Alpine, it looks pretty similar but has a significantly higher VAS. It also has a propensity to play a little lower, especially sealed.
Compared to the Peerless it's a lower VAS and more XMAX. I haven't modeled a Peerless myself.

Looks like the Dayton is built like a tank, FWIW.


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post #11 of 50 Old 12-28-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightbrained View Post

You have to wonder if Dayton has de-rated the xmax on these as much as they do on the RSS460.

I would have to agree, look how tall that surround is.
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post #12 of 50 Old 12-28-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I would have to agree, look how tall that surround is.

I may have to buy one and see if Josh can fit in his busy schedule to test it.

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post #13 of 50 Old 12-31-2012, 06:29 PM
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anyone tossed two of these in a tapped horn enclosure sim?


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post #14 of 50 Old 01-01-2013, 03:50 AM
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Would this new Dayton 12" driver work good in a sealed setup in a vehicle?
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post #15 of 50 Old 01-02-2013, 03:21 PM
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i got to say these are some nice looking subwoofers just got mine today and the pictures do no justice. much nicer looking then the cone on rythmic sub woofers or any sub woofer i have seen and they aren't to expensive smile.gif
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post #16 of 50 Old 01-02-2013, 03:34 PM
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Those babies look damn nice!

Go Dayton!!!!!!cool.gifwink.gifsmile.gif

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post #17 of 50 Old 01-02-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Would this new Dayton 12" driver work good in a sealed setup in a vehicle?
I would say probably not. It wants too large of a box to get a decent Q.
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post #18 of 50 Old 01-02-2013, 06:51 PM
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well i got 4 today in the mail and i got to say cone looks amazing the whole carbon fiber look without any dust cap is nice if not the best looking subwoofer cone i have seen.
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post #19 of 50 Old 01-02-2013, 07:03 PM
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dayton indicates a q=0.707 in 3 cubic feet sealed.

winisd indicates a q=0.81 in 3 cubic feet sealed.

in 2 cubic feet, q rises to 0.89 with an f3 of around 33hz, which is still probably fine for a typical car install.

the frequency response is pretty amazing. +/-2db up to around 900hz. might make for a nice little sub to go along with some "cube" style full rangers that require a very high crossover point.

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post #20 of 50 Old 01-06-2013, 06:13 AM
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What's the difference between this driver and the RS 12" HF? Just more X-max?

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post #21 of 50 Old 01-11-2013, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

dayton indicates a q=0.707 in 3 cubic feet sealed.

winisd indicates a q=0.81 in 3 cubic feet sealed.

in 2 cubic feet, q rises to 0.89 with an f3 of around 33hz, which is still probably fine for a typical car install.

the frequency response is pretty amazing. +/-2db up to around 900hz. might make for a nice little sub to go along with some "cube" style full rangers that require a very high crossover point.

LTD02;

I am looking for a 3rd subwoofer following the geddes method, I had the 12" Titanic Mk III on order late Dec-2012, they gave me a Jan 6 ship date, then pushed that back to Feb-28! So, I needed to select a different driver.

I did same modeling as you, posted in the Parts Express Q&A and got the below answer from a Parts Express staff.
Quote:
Using actual measured specs Bassbox gives me a total sealed volume of 1.94 cubic feet for a Qtc of .707 and an F3 of 37.5 Hz.
Age: 25-34
Technical Knowledge: Professional
2 days ago
MattP
- Springboro, Ohio

Which makes this seem perfect for a 3rd subwoofer in my multi subwoofer approach, my IB sub and 18" SI D2 both have q in low 0.7 range...
I called PE, speaking to their tech support on phone he said the 12" Ultimax would be fine in a 2 cu ft sealed box for my HT usage, so I placed the order, he gave me same price as the 12" Titanic Mk III (A $12 "save")
I got them last night, un boxing shot, the Kevlar 12" cone looks sweet, while the 18" is simply BIG.


Now, I'm having 2nd doubts, the simulations we did vs what he did are so different ....for what I'm using the 3rd sub for as a replacement for out of stock 12" Titanic Mk III should I have picked the 12" Reference HF, or will this 12" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer do the job?
Based upon his simulation it appears perfect match.
For 3rd sub I'd like to stick with "small" box, up to 2.25 cu ft.

The "actual measured specs" the PE staff used, I'd like to see those for modeling, does anyone know where he could have gotten them from? Any why the spec sheet would not be updated with them if so?
For sure I will call PE later today.

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post #22 of 50 Old 01-11-2013, 04:45 PM
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the one that you have appears to stand a better chance at keeping up with your main subs than the hf would.

i'd be interested to see how the small sub provides benefit in your system given that it is so much smaller.

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post #23 of 50 Old 01-12-2013, 09:00 PM
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so did pe say anything ?
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post #24 of 50 Old 01-13-2013, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

so did pe say anything ?
Got too busy at work on Friday, I'll try today Sunday or Monday.
(Schedule a 20 minute mtg in small conf room may be only way to "hide" at work smile.gif )

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post #25 of 50 Old 01-13-2013, 04:01 PM
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Is it just me or does it seem like the new dayton sub (UM12-22) isn't really suited for HT use as it requires a huge ported box to get some decent low end and the sealed isn't that impressive as well? I've modeled it and the best I was able to get was this:

Please note that the power that is indicated on the dayton subs was max power that could be applied before going beyond xmax.

Sealed (Blue Line)
Volume: 2.5 cubic ft.
FSC: 36.33Hz
Qtc: 0.836
Power: 400w

Ported (Pink Line)
Volume : 9 cubic ft eek.gif
Tune: 17Hz
HPF: 15Hz 4th Order
Power: 300w

For comparison here's the Stereo Integrity 15" (Orange Line) in a sealed box the same size that the dayton sealed is in:
Volume: 2.5 cubic ft.
FSC: 42.88Hz
Qtc: 0.717
Power: 600w



As it can be seen the SI 15" sub blows it out of the water! biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 50 Old 01-13-2013, 11:26 PM
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12'' vs 15''

pros and cons of si driver smile.gif
about $14 more
40% more surface area
4.5mm more xmax
ugly cone guess this is the only con

what I'm using them for is 2 drivers per cab @ 6cf can go lower cf for higher tune each with 2 pr tuned to 15hz which i end up getting around 118db @ 15hz this way with 4 drivers and 4 pr 2 from a previous build and 2 new ones hope it doesn't take to long frown.gif

one of these with 2 15'' pr in a 4cf box would work out to 106db @ 15hz with about 1k watts +/-1db f3 11hz with eq

or like 1 pr 1 driver in a 1.6cf box 18hz tune 110db @ 18hz 1kwatts +/-1db f3 of 16hz that makes for one mean ass tiny subwoofer stick a plate amp on it and you could carry it with you every where u go.

both are with about 6-8db of boost on the lower end could probably half that b/c of room gain.

just what is possible ofc other 12''ers can do this but they don't have as pretty a cone smile.gif

so i guess they were made for pr subs b/c they dont seem to work with ported or sealed all that great.
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post #27 of 50 Old 01-14-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

so did pe say anything ?
Got too busy at work on Friday, I'll try today Sunday or Monday.
(Schedule a 20 minute mtg in small conf room may be only way to "hide" at work smile.gif )

I spoke with MattP 5 minutes ago, PE staff, he did the driver parametrer measurements himself and stands by them for 1.94 cubic feet sealed for a Qtc of .707 and an F3 of 37.5 Hz.
He will send me those parameters, which I will model later tonight and post.

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post #28 of 50 Old 01-14-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I spoke with MattP 5 minutes ago, PE staff, he did the driver parametrer measurements himself and stands by them for 1.94 cubic feet sealed for a Qtc of .707 and an F3 of 37.5 Hz.
He will send me those parameters, which I will model later tonight and post.
I'll be curious to see the parameters since they ones PE has posted on the product page won't give the box configs they claim.
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post #29 of 50 Old 01-14-2013, 11:47 AM
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I love the fact that the little Dayton is sporting a magnet structure that (looks) almost as beefy as the SI, I can't wait to stick a pair into my Sump Basin subwoofers. I have a funny feeling they will be a perfect match. I'll run some sims.

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post #30 of 50 Old 01-14-2013, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

12'' vs 15''

pros and cons of si driver smile.gif
about $14 more
40% more surface area
4.5mm more xmax
ugly cone guess this is the only con

Assuming the Dayton has the same Sd as the Obsidian style 12" cone/surround (click here to see for yourself [side bar - I saw this woofer at CES a few days ago and Sd appears to be incredibly similar]) the Sd should be right at 490 cm^2 for the 12" model. Couple that to the stated 19mm Xmax and you have a total linear displacement of 9310 cm^3 for the Dayton.

The SI HT 15 has an Sd of 804.5 cm^2 (that's 60% larger Sd, not 40% larger), coupled with its 22.5mm Xmax you get a total linear displacement of 18101.25 cm^3, or a 95% increase in linear displacement. Not to mention the same, if not lower, Re/Le of the SI even though the SI uses a four layer coil compared to the Dayton's two layer coil (see this post about the corrected inductance measured by Josh RiccI of Data-Bass).
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