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post #271 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

If money was no object, I would own the Noesis speakers as well. The draw to these SEOS designs is the performance you get for the cost.

Based on the way these can beat out T8's and possibly the T12's, the Noesis have about a 2 year head start before the cost of the compression driver comes down, or a cheaper one can be made at around the same quality that can be thrown into these. By that time, Jeff will be one step ahead anyway smile.gif

Ha, yeah I'm dreading the day that he comes out with the Noesis II or whatever. However, I already have had so much enjoyment out of these speakers I don't regret if for a second.

Seanile, I wouldn't say save up for sure. If you had my ears yes. The Noesis do something for me that no other speaker I have heard can do. I crave crystal clear sound, yet powerful, yet smooth, yet addictive/no listener fatigue, and top it off with crazy dynamics and pinpoint imaging for 2 channel music. I feel like these are my perfect speaker.... so far!!

Hoever, I'm not close minded and am completely open to the fact that someday I could hear something I like better.

I REALLY want to hear:

Catalyst 12's
LS-6's
LS-9's
Andrew's (Gorilla's) DIY speakers
Brandon's (Beastaudio's DIY speakers
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post #272 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 06:33 PM
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Oh, and to reiterate, if you have any thoughts of wanting to run speakers with no subs for music the Noesis are not the way to go. However, to me the SEOS ran full range did not compare to SEOS + Submersive anyway.
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post #273 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 06:34 PM
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BTW, sorry for thread crapping Brandon!! Your speakers look AWESOME and I'd love to hear them. Can't wait for you to get the SI's fired up.... can't wait for mine too of course. smile.gif
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post #274 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 06:36 PM
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If I wanted to go without subs I'd be a B&W 800 series owner. I got these 8 18" drivers and plan to use them! Like I said from the beginning, by goal is to feel like I am front row at a concert.

I've got the bass covered now and want that silky smooth silky tweeter producing those highs. Not a fan of harsh or piercing highs...
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post #275 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

The TD's are heavy. Id say as heavy as the SI18's actually, and if not, they aren't far off. They do pick up a little additional hump when I back them a little further into the corners, but I also have bass trapping directly behind them, and it may also be some bounce off the Dual opposed box they perch on, but it still does happen smile.gif

Can I think of any reason not to? Absolutely not if you can get your hands on the TD12x's first. I don't know if they have a wait time or not anymore. I don't think you are missing anything. It is about as straight up as it can be. Just good drivers, good design, and a killer XO to make em sing. I still can't believe the performance, I feel like it is highway robbery.

TD woofers are all about 24 lbs each, 25lbs shipping weight. Going with a 19mm thick top plate for a broader BL curve and lower distortion does bump up the weight a little, but is well worth it.

TD woofers can be ordered with much more reasonable lead times now. I just finished up the last of any regular orders that were beyond normal lead times. The oldest ones on the build list are now from Jan 22. I do still have about 40 group buy woofers to finish but those are all being completed within the next 2-3 weeks.

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post #276 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

If money was no object, I would own the Noesis speakers as well. The draw to these SEOS designs is the performance you get for the cost.

Based on the way these can beat out T8's and possibly the T12's, the Noesis have about a 2 year head start before the cost of the compression driver comes down, or a cheaper one can be made at around the same quality that can be thrown into these. By that time, Jeff will be one step ahead anyway smile.gif

Don't count on the CD's dropping in price, and for a two way, the cost still to build out a cheaper unit without a brand name is still gonna cost you what some would consider an exorbitant amount. Doesn't stop most of us however biggrin.gif The BMS is a super-performer and the tech they use to make it work is second to none...

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BTW, sorry for thread crapping Brandon!! Your speakers look AWESOME and I'd love to hear them. Can't wait for you to get the SI's fired up.... can't wait for mine too of course. smile.gif

I already have 4 going and LOVE it, these sono's will just match their Cuft and hang out for a while till I can build out 4 new boxes to match the stain and finish of the SEOS.
Quote:
I REALLY want to hear:

Catalyst 12's
LS-6's
LS-9's
Andrew's (Gorilla's) DIY speakers
Brandon's (Beastaudio's DIY speakers

If you will be at Rilla's and I can fit them all, I can accomplish two of the four just with my haul!!!!

John: Thanks for the update, I might be in for 6 more Td12x's at this point, 4 for surround, and two more for a double-up build for the fronts if I get frisky!!! Thanks for featuring my build on the FB page too btw! Some of my friends and fam already think I am famous now! haha

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AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

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post #277 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 08:06 PM
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^^^^^

Don't short change your center during that upgrade, Beast.

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post #278 of 377 Old 02-06-2013, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Crap, I meant 7.... thanks SS lol biggrin.gif Center channel is paramount.

Sorry, I drink beer when I am building. Lost that one after a few, haha!

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post #279 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

The TD's are heavy. Id say as heavy as the SI18's actually, and if not, they aren't far off. They do pick up a little additional hump when I back them a little further into the corners, but I also have bass trapping directly behind them, and it may also be some bounce off the Dual opposed box they perch on, but it still does happen smile.gif

Can I think of any reason not to? Absolutely not if you can get your hands on the TD12x's first. I don't know if they have a wait time or not anymore. I don't think you are missing anything. It is about as straight up as it can be. Just good drivers, good design, and a killer XO to make em sing. I still can't believe the performance, I feel like it is highway robbery.
So highway robbery it is then and I'm down.biggrin.gif
The more I read and reread only to read again and finally drawing the same conclusion had me wandering if I had simply overlooked something. It's just that the price is so damn good. I have been studing the AE drivers for well over a year and until this past week they seemed like an unobtainable wet dream. Blasphemy or not those AE drivers excite me as much as any subwoofer drivers.eek.gif
Now If we can talk Jeff into making a limited edition Noesis featuring 2 TD12X drivers with his magic crossover work we would have a new hybrid monster killer on our hands.wink.gif Building 4 of these for my rear channels will give me a chance to play around with the implemetation of this design and will allow the time it takes to watch your design idea materialize.
Thanks for the info
Chris
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post #280 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

not both! One or the other really. dead cheapest is REW and your RS meter (if you don't have one, you should to test any auto calibration results at least for Spl accuracy). get the uca202 external sound card for your laptop and measure away. I chose to go the slightly easier but more expensive route by purchasing the Omnimic system ($300) that has everything you need in a nice case, and you can be measuring in minutes. It takes a little less time to set up and get working than REW. but REW has a little more capability in some areas.

With the new version of REW, I would just get the USB mic and use HDMI out on your lap top if you have it. Sweet and easy. Also no more disconnecting speakers to test. With the HDMI version, you can select what speakers you want to test.

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post #281 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Don't count on the CD's dropping in price, and for a two way, the cost still to build out a cheaper unit without a brand name is still gonna cost you what some would consider an exorbitant amount. Doesn't stop most of us however biggrin.gif The BMS is a super-performer and the tech they use to make it work is second to none...
I already have 4 going and LOVE it, these sono's will just match their Cuft and hang out for a while till I can build out 4 new boxes to match the stain and finish of the SEOS.
If you will be at Rilla's and I can fit them all, I can accomplish two of the four just with my haul!!!!

We (OK - Jake/Chopshop did the grunt work) recently discover that if we get 10k in purchases in BMS gear we qualify for 30% off their stuff - I believe anything in the catalog. That should help add fuel to the fire if a few of us decide to go down that path.

+1 on the GTG, you would obviously be able to hear mine and hopefully Mark will bring something >= the Cat 12s with him. biggrin.gif
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post #282 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

At the end we fired up the Noesis and all 3 of us agreed that they are on another level.

But at 7x the cost, you guys should've compared a 7 speaker Tempest surround system with just one Noesis. biggrin.gif

If you guys think there's a demand for a speaker kit that expensive, I could look into something using a larger SEOS.
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post #283 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But at 7x the cost, you guys should've compared a 7 speaker Tempest surround system with just one Noesis. biggrin.gif

If you guys think there's a demand for a speaker kit that expensive, I could look into something using a larger SEOS.
Is there any chance of getting a 2.5 or 3.0 cu ft flat pack that will house the the TD12X. If that driver is going to be easier to obtain I can see a need for a quality box(flat pack and baffle) to cage the beast.
Thanks
Chris
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post #284 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But at 7x the cost, you guys should've compared a 7 speaker Tempest surround system with just one Noesis. biggrin.gif

If you guys think there's a demand for a speaker kit that expensive, I could look into something using a larger SEOS.

If anything, some speaker kits and flat packs involving the TD10-TD12X and M versions would be a great addition, along with birch boxes for them. I'd buy 7 and save a ton of time.

Edit: saw the post above. jinx. At least we know there is interest smile.gif
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post #285 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But at 7x the cost, you guys should've compared a 7 speaker Tempest surround system with just one Noesis. biggrin.gif

If you guys think there's a demand for a speaker kit that expensive, I could look into something using a larger SEOS.

TD15M or X package with a SEOS15/18 and relevant compression driver please!!
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post #286 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

If anything, some speaker kits and flat packs involving the TD10-TD12X and M versions would be a great addition, along with birch boxes for them. I'd buy 7 and save a ton of time.

Edit: saw the post above. jinx. At least we know there is interest smile.gif

I asked about birch boxes earlier in the other thread. Most people said it didn't matter and leaned towards mdf. It keeps the price lower and allows for a much easier finish because the mdf machines smoother. On boxes this size with the current internal bracing, there really is no benefit to Baltic birch. Weight difference is very minimal.
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post #287 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

We (OK - Jake/Chopshop did the grunt work) recently discover that if we get 10k in purchases in BMS gear we qualify for 30% off their stuff - I believe anything in the catalog. That should help add fuel to the fire if a few of us decide to go down that path.
biggrin.gif
When this comes together I am interested/sold. 30% discount is the magic phrase. wink.gif
Chris
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post #288 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But at 7x the cost, you guys should've compared a 7 speaker Tempest surround system with just one Noesis. biggrin.gif

If you guys think there's a demand for a speaker kit that expensive, I could look into something using a larger SEOS.

That's what I meant by HUGE price difference! smile.gif There is no doubt for the price the sound is unbelievable, and I've recommended the SEOS speakers to non avs forum friends who would have no interest in spending a ton of money on speakers like the Noesis. The SEOS speakers have to be the best deal in audio - well, along with the DIY subs with either Dayton or SI drivers.


BTW Erich, are you done with the SI driver? Not that I'm in a huge rush to get it back, but I am very interested on when the flat packs for it will be ready to go. I see on your site you have the 4 cu ft box listed now, just not in stock yet so I'm guessing it's going to be soon? thanks again
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post #289 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 07:10 AM
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Carp
For the money the Noesis has no equals.The same goes for the SEOS packages/build. They are both excellent deals but trying to compare them is just unrealistic. When and if a new 1.4" BMS CD comes out to replace the current one in the Noesis then the current one will not b discounted it will be discountinued. The only way it could be made less expensive is for another company to copy it. Thats too many optimistic dreams for me to even consider. The Noesis is King and to be the king you have to kill the king. So long live the king.smile.gif
Chris
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post #290 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 07:46 AM
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Chris, yeah when Archaea and Mr Smithers came over that day to compare the SEOS speaker, we didn't set out to compare with the Noesis. Archaea brought over his eD Cinema 12's that I sold him and that was what we did most of the comparing. I felt like the SEOS did everything the eD's did but better - smoother highs, WAY better mid bass and over all bass.

I don't know if the Noesis is king or if that really exists, especially since I haven't heard the Cat 12's or the larger SEOS speakers - and who knows what will be available down the road. When I bought them I knew their might someday be a speaker I would like better, but for now man this is it for me. It has a sound that just does it for me, it's hard to describe... at the Noesis Salk comparison I was surprised that not every single person would prefer them after the music section was over I thought it was that big of a difference - I quickly reminded myself that everyone hears differently - so the king speaker is different for everyone!
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post #291 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:03 AM
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Carp
You just may have a lifetime (10yrs is a lifetime to keep the same speakers) speaker in your HT room already. At this moment the Noesis is the gold standard for around 2 grand. Just glance at all the people looking for another way to accomplish what you already have. While I am dreaming you are listening. wink.gif I would like to see a SEOS 15 w/TD15X driver and the BMS 1.4" CD/Horn that is in the Noesis. It appears that plans are being made.
At least I have the T12's and a pair of SubM HP's to console myself till I can figure it allout.biggrin.gif
Chri
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post #292 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I asked about birch boxes earlier in the other thread. Most people said it didn't matter and leaned towards mdf. It keeps the price lower and allows for a much easier finish because the mdf machines smoother. On boxes this size with the current internal bracing, there really is no benefit to Baltic birch. Weight difference is very minimal.

I used birch on my SI dual opposed box and stained it with a red mahogany color. I have to use birch all around to keep the look and match them.

The MDF front baffles help tremendously though. They can get a flat black coating.
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post #293 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:10 AM
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Carp
You just may have a lifetime (10yrs is a lifetime to keep the same speakers) speaker in your HT room already. At this moment the Noesis is the gold standard for around 2 grand. Just look at all the people looking for another way to accomplish what you already have. While I am dreaming you are listening. wink.gif I would like to see a SEOS 15 w/TD15X driver and the BMS 1.4" CD/Horn that is in the Noesis. It appears that plans are being made.
At least I have the T12's and a pair of SubM HP's to console myself till I can figure it allout.biggrin.gif
Chris

Haha, yeah you're really slummin' it Chris!! tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #294 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:13 AM
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Haha, yeah you're really slummin' it Chris!! tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
I have had peace of mind for the past year then the Noesis came out and F"d that all up.mad.gifbiggrin.gif
Chris
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post #295 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:18 AM
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I asked about birch boxes earlier in the other thread. Most people said it didn't matter and leaned towards mdf. It keeps the price lower and allows for a much easier finish because the mdf machines smoother. On boxes this size with the current internal bracing, there really is no benefit to Baltic birch. Weight difference is very minimal.

My boss is considering wood for the sides of the enclosure but use your MDF front-baffle, so he can have wood-grain but not have to do the harder cuts of the baffle.

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post #296 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

We (OK - Jake/Chopshop did the grunt work) recently discover that if we get 10k in purchases in BMS gear we qualify for 30% off their stuff - I believe anything in the catalog. That should help add fuel to the fire if a few of us decide to go down that path.

I've got Iwata-300 and SEOS-24 horns on order from Erich at the moment from Poland. The Iwata-300 is a 2" horn that I was planning to try out my JBL 2446 2" CDs that I got for less than $100 each that I put upgraded beryllium Truextant diaphragms in. The SEOS-24 is going to be the 1.5" version to mate up to JBL 2447 1.5" CDs, again with the beryllium Truextant replacement diaphragms.

Each of these CD/horn tops are going to be interchangeable (along with outboard crossover boxes for each design) thanks to JBL 2509a mounting brackes on top of the main woofer box holding AE TD15M woofers (when phase plugs show up) run as full range in room as possible. I'm also still waiting on AE TD15H woofers from the group buy. They are going to be the rest of the bottom end if the TD15M won't go full range enough in room once room gain is factored in. They will be run off a Crown XTI 2002 and I'll use the internal DSP to even out any frequency anomalies and use the crossover in it to lowpass the TD15Hs off at the point that the TD15Ms drop off on their own full range. I'm going to take advantage of the xmax on the 15H to push them a bit into the near sub bass range they may not want to go because I won't be using anywhere near their power limit given that my max volume listening levels are very modest/downright quiet by this forums standards smile.gif Plus these are for two channel music only and I generally hate subwoofers no matter how perfectly EQed.... so we'll see how this works out...

The only other CDs that intrigued me to try besides this mutant JBL combo were the BMS drivers. Since I'm still waiting on horns and group buy woofers to arrive before I can even start on crossover design, I don't even know if I'll like the JBL mutant CDs or any part of this foray into DIY high efficiency speakers. I've heard enough promise in the various iterations of the SEOS designs we've built to push forward though and at least try a couple more options before moving on... With only really two rooms in the house now (thanks to baby taking over the rest of the place) to put speaker systems safely instead of when I used to have 8-10 different systems in every room of the house, good enough for the money won't cut it. I want to push the boundaries and find a combo that permanently evicts the other options I have to choose from in the commercial realm. If it doesn't happen, no biggie. It will have been a fun experiment. The joys of audio is that its so subjective and there is something for everyone.

Anyways, that is a long rambling way of saying that I'm in if it happens. I was going to look into what it would take to get better pricing on the BMS stuff at some point if the JBL didn't work... but if you get a group together, it might be easier to just get the easy 30% discount and skip the grunt work of digging into it. I'm in for a pair of 4592ND 2" coaxial CDs and a pair of 4595ND 1.5" coaxial CDs so I can hear them on the Iwata and SEOS 24 horns I have coming... let us know how it progresses. Thanks!

Shane
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post #297 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 08:36 AM
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Country VW, Hometheaterdoc, and anyone interested for that matter...I am going to post a thread in the diy section for group buy on BMS gear. I will call my guy back to be sure he will ship to multiple locations at that discount and we can start a list. I will get a group buy ID # or something from him so that we can identify the participants. gonna put up the thread now.
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post #298 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With the new version of REW, I would just get the USB mic and use HDMI out on your lap top if you have it. Sweet and easy. Also no more disconnecting speakers to test. With the HDMI version, you can select what speakers you want to test.

I have HDMI out on my laptop, but I am not sure how it does surround if at all. Couldnt I just use the omnimic since it is usb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But at 7x the cost, you guys should've compared a 7 speaker Tempest surround system with just one Noesis. biggrin.gif

If you guys think there's a demand for a speaker kit that expensive, I could look into something using a larger SEOS.

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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

TD15M or X package with a SEOS15/18 and relevant compression driver please!!

Answered biggrin.gif does the SEOS15/18 have a 1.4" exit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Country VW, Hometheaterdoc, and anyone interested for that matter...I am going to post a thread in the diy section for group buy on BMS gear. I will call my guy back to be sure he will ship to multiple locations at that discount and we can start a list. I will get a group buy ID # or something from him so that we can identify the participants. gonna put up the thread now.

I would actually try the BMS 2 way on top of the 4648s'. Man, that would be unreal...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

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post #299 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 11:00 AM
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Beast
In your current build what BMS CD would you use in place of the 360 if you had to pick something? How about if you were using them as rears.smile.gif
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post #300 of 377 Old 02-07-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Answered biggrin.gif does the SEOS15/18 have a 1.4" exit?
...

The closest match in the SEOS lineup would be the SEOS24 which is quite massive. This may limit options for many of us due to width.

Another option would be the eightensounds Xr1864 that does have a 1.4" exit:
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=268
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