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post #91 of 377 Old 01-16-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Haha, I meant the braces, not the waveguides! Lol. I would never suggest gluing the actual components to the box! I have some closed cell foam for the WG's and the speakers.

I think I need to work on my reading comprehension. biggrin.gif

Your speakers are looking good and I'm sure you're going to love the sound.

-Max
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post #92 of 377 Old 01-16-2013, 11:54 PM
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Can do. A stock PE eminence XO vs. a quality-built-specific-to the build XO. Really there is no comparison..

Geez man, that comparison reminds me of comparing your XXX to most other 18's...

Your XO's got some real cojones bro...

Looking forward to the end result!

 

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post #93 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 04:47 AM
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Platforms to make them sit flat and all. BOOM!!!






Man ^this is some gorgeous work. I'm a little green with respect to crossover assembly but any idea why they used solid copper coated in some areas and stranded speaker wire in others? I'm not nitpicking at all, I'm asking b/c I intended to use solid copper to bridge some of the point to points on my crossover and wondered if there is a difference?

I'm gonna be lobbying hard for a demo once these babies are done bro, so hurry up every chance you get biggrin.gif
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post #94 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 04:54 AM
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^ From what I've seen/read it seems common to use solid copper as a common ground for most (or all) of the components.

Beast - I see the caps are held in place by zip ties. Are the other components glued in? If so, they did a great job at concealing the glue. biggrin.gif


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post #95 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Man ^this is some gorgeous work. I'm a little green with respect to crossover assembly but any idea why they used solid copper coated in some areas and stranded speaker wire in others? I'm not nitpicking at all, I'm asking b/c I intended to use solid copper to bridge some of the point to points on my crossover and wondered if there is a difference?

I'm gonna be lobbying hard for a demo once these babies are done bro, so hurry up every chance you get biggrin.gif

That actually is not solid copper, it is speaker wire, it is used in two spots, and teh rest are just the component wires connected to each other.

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^ From what I've seen/read it seems common to use solid copper as a common ground for most (or all) of the components.

Beast - I see the caps are held in place by zip ties. Are the other components glued in? If so, they did a great job at concealing the glue. biggrin.gif

yes, they are glued, an excellent job indeed smile.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #96 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 09:09 AM
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Yes whoever put those crossovers together did a very nice job biggrin.gif
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post #97 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 10:29 AM
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Indeed, very nicely done. Beast, pardon me, would you have any Grey Poupon with your Jantzen's? tongue.gif Dang dude, that's it, I'm upgrading to the Silver Z-caps! biggrin.gif

Must have measurements and listening impressions...this weekend please! cool.gif


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post #98 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha, I will hope to have some measurements for you guys this weekend at some point. I have three days to play so that is nice. I also am scooping a new puppy so, that will be MOST of the weekend playing with the little tike biggrin.gif

Also, those are not the silver z-caps, they are the crosscaps, but alas, still pretty solid.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #99 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 10:43 AM
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"Our son's first crossover. They grow up so fast!"

Awwww....

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post #100 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 10:50 AM
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If he had done all Jantzen Silver's it would have been over a grand for just the Caps! eek.gif
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post #101 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 10:54 AM
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If he had done all Jantzen Silver's it would have been over a grand for just the Caps! eek.gif

Uh huh...rediculous $$$$. eek.gif That would buy quite a few drivers among other things.


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post #102 of 377 Old 01-17-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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yea, Not gone do it! Haha, the total bill for all three XO's with the crosscaps was only about $200

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #103 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Yes whoever put those crossovers together did a very nice job biggrin.gif

Hummm, my investigative skills are kicking in... Must...not...jump to...conclusions...

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If he had done all Jantzen Silver's it would have been over a grand for just the Caps! eek.gif

So, what benefit would one gain from going the all Jantzen Silver route? Sounds like the definition of "deminishing" returns.

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yea, Not gone do it! Haha, the total bill for all three XO's with the crosscaps was only about $200

DUDE... Not bad! They look way more than $200 a piece!

 

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post #104 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 06:31 AM
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keep in mind that changing out components will have some effects on the overall results of the crossover. In the case of capacitors it is less of an issue than with inductors, but it still plays a factor. I used to design crossovers and people would always try to change out the inductors for "better ones" not understanding why it didn't sound right when done. They failed to realize that the resistance of those inductors plays a part in determining the phase relationship between the drivers.

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post #105 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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So Capacitors don't affect the XO in the same fashion though? I didn't think that would make any difference assuming they had the same values...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #106 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 07:55 AM
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I know nothing (and I mean nothing) about crossovers. With that said I noticed that in Bwaslo's plan he listed 27 uf, 50 uf, and 2 uf for the capacitor values. If I am looking at your picture correctly, you are using 27 uf, 47uf, and I can not see the smaller capacitors. I don't know if that will affect the overall sound or not. With that said it does look damn sexy!!!


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post #107 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 07:59 AM
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Often people think that a crossover just needs to get the response flat. There is much more to it than that. I have heard many that measure flat but just don't sound good at all. There is a lot of phase shift and no phase coherency at the crossover point. Changing components definitely affects this phase relationship between the drivers. There is less difference between capacitors and how they change the phase relationship of the crossover than inductors. If you wanted you could actually test to compare what their effects are. The easiest way to see what is happening is probably to put the drivers out of phase. With the drivers out of phase, you should have a deep null at the crossover point, 30dB or so. This this also indicates that there is good phase coherency between them when drivers are in phase. Do the measurement that shows the null with both capacitors. If they really are equivalent in all ways you shouldn't see much change in this null.

In the case of inductors, switching from a high wire gauge to a low wire gauge will have a big difference on the resistance of that inductor. Resistance in an inductor does waste power, but isn't necessarily a bad thing in terms of sound as long as the design accounts for it. If you go from a 16awg inductor to a 14awg inductor though, you will have drastic results. All of the other crossover component values will have to be altered because the resistance affects the relationship of all the components.

John

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post #108 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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The two little black ones bottom right biggrin.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #109 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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John, that is good to know! I will more than likely try and test one out of phase to see what it does!! I did not make any changes to the inductors, just the caps, so hopefully I will be all good here. Even if there was a slight change, I would assume the actual "Audible" difference would be minimal.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #110 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 09:14 AM
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Actually beast I switched out the erse 18awg I core to the 16awg super Q, though I doubt that will cause any issues. It is something like a 0.1 ohm difference, In my design simulations I have never seen a small change like that on a 2nd order woofer circuit to do much at all.
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post #111 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:08 AM
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Still though, it's cool to stir the pot and see what comes up. Great work! I remember Bill said you can always go with lower DCR, it can't hurt.

You're gonna be a happy camper beast, you'll be impressed I think.


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post #112 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I am certainly hoping so!! If not, then it's gonna be back to the drawing board, building out some of the same but with the 2226's I have layin' around now.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #113 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:33 AM
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2226's "layin' around"...sheesh, that's why your wallet Hz.tongue.gif


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post #114 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:34 AM
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2226's "layin' around"...sheesh, that's why your wallet Hz.tongue.gif

Lol. I've got 18 of them...just layin' around. My wallet is in hell! redface.gif


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post #115 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha, they are actually 2225's and they are still in the 4648 boxes, so not really layin' around, but I do need to find a good use for them or sell em off. I know what Scott votes for though...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #116 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:41 AM
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Sheeyiit man! WOW! No kidding. lol.


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post #117 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 10:45 AM
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Haha, they are actually 2225's and they are still in the 4648 boxes, so not really layin' around, but I do need to find a good use for them or sell em off. I know what Scott votes for though...

Put those heavy hitters to use! You got the amps and DSP power for it.

...and they're just sitting around, doing nothing. For shame. tongue.gif


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post #118 of 377 Old 01-18-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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One day at a time sir, haha. I can't fit those, ls6's, and the SEOS all up front at the same time, guess I need to build a bigger room

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post #119 of 377 Old 01-20-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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OK so the boxes are finished.I have a couple small spots on the rear of the box where the stain didn't take on the raw ply from where some wood glue had been absorbed, but it is the rear panel so I am not THAT worried. The rest of the boxes turned out great. I want to get them outside and maybe take some better pics today.







For the horns I taped them off and then applied QuietKote that I got from PE which is kind of a rubberized black spray paint that will handle resonances well with just up to a 1/32nd coat. That was about 3 sprays for me. It takes drying in warm temps so be prepared if you choose to use it to bring them inside after the first evening if you have cold weather to help them set the rest of the way.







Little OT, but brought this little bundle home yesterday too so I am certainly glad I got work done when I did...She will dominate time for the next several weeks smile.gif


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post #120 of 377 Old 01-20-2013, 09:15 AM
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OK so the boxes are finished.I have a couple small spots on the rear of the box where the stain didn't take on the raw ply from where some wood glue had been absorbed, but it is the rear panel so I am not THAT worried. The rest of the boxes turned out great. I want to get them outside and maybe take some better pics today.

Outstanding buddy! I'm really interested in seeing how these turn out after you apply the poly! Be sure to get some close-ups of the edges if you don't mind!

Looking great for sure man.

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Little OT, but brought this little bundle home yesterday too so I am certainly glad I got work done when I did...She will dominate time for the next several weeks smile.gif

Sweet! Congrats!

Yeah, a few weeks (at least) of itensive potty training may be in order...lol

 

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