AE TD12x SEOS12 Build!!!! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-28-2013, 09:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
Aaron Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 406
Posts: 640
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

mad impressed
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

and sound absolutely phenomenal
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Oh the sweet sweet sound of constant directivity. I have missed it so
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

It is already making me wonder the future of the LS6's if that means anything to anyone
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

listening to these full range with music is absolutely phenomenal...again...
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I have to say I have already cranked these further than I care to listen and they are seamless
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I can;t believe I am getting something like this from a set of THREE speakers for barely over $1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Just absolutely astounding
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

because they are just absolutely unreal



Stop beating around the bush...

Do you like the damn things or not??? biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif
Aaron Smith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-28-2013, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,130
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehoeft View Post

That's what I was waiting to hear... Can't wait till you have more time listening to these. What are you running them down too. I've been super interested in the AE's and also Rilla's B&C's. I know it's early but how are they compared to the JTR's. not sure which models you've heard/had. Awesome man... Glad you love them!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post


I had the Triple 12's for LR and a T8 for center. So far I have only done 2 ch. listening so other than testing the center to make sure it was measuring right, I haven't given it any more.








Stop beating around the bush...

Do you like the damn things or not??? biggrin.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

dang, as you quoted eloquently, my opinions so far should speak for themselves!! haha. I LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More listening impression to come, if you guys leave me alone...haha:D

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Aaron Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 406
Posts: 640
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


dang, as you quoted eloquently, my opinions so far should speak for themselves!! haha. I LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More listening impression to come, if you guys leave me alone...haha:D

Gotcha -- Loud and clear this time! smile.gif

Enjoy your further listening and report back. One thing though beast...you'll have to come up with another superlative other than 'absolutely'; I believe it attained the maximum number of allowable uses in the last paragraph. tongue.gif
Aaron Smith is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bass addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A padded room
Posts: 4,157
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Crap. Man I'm really tempted to ship one of my Axioms over to you so you can see how well they match up sonically to those bad boys. I really, really, really want to build a set of these but know it would drive me crazy if my height, wide, and surround speakers were way off on timbre.

Achievement Unlocked

Psychotic Episode Averted

bass addict is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eternal Velocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Good stuff, though I think your room may be a bit overtreated on the lateral reflections. And like erich said, I think you want more toe-in and to pull the speakers forward and flush so there isn`t diffraction off the edge of the subwoofer.
Eternal Velocity is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,550
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 435 Post(s)
Liked: 734
So was this a design blend from Bwaslo and MTG?

Just out of curiosity, if you're not pushing the A&E woofers very hard, wouldn't other "lesser" woofers sound pretty close to the same? I'm talking about decent woofers from other manufacturers, not their lower end stuff.

Glad you like the waveguides. And you're right, having all of this come together so the DIY guys can get this level of audio gear for a fraction of the price is incredible. Don't forget the reviews for anything you ordered! Lots of people love this stuff......not so many take the time to write up the reviews though. biggrin.gif
Erich H is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:34 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,327
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Liked: 1040
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

GRAPHS!!! I am more impressed with these right now that I have been with a speaker in a LONG time. I will let the responses speak for themselves. These are for the LCR measurements close mic, ZERO eq, just running full range direct:







And this is at the MLP, still no EQ, full range WHAAAAAAA??????


Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I was gonna wait a few for listening impressions and see what people thought of the graphs without any bias on my side smile.gif I will say for now though, that I saw Rilla's response and immediately got stoked to see how far mine extended down. Needless to say I was mad impressed that the TD's could do close to the same, and sound absolutely phenomenal. Oh the sweet sweet sound of constant directivity. I have missed it so.... It is already making me wonder the future of the LS6's if that means anything to anyone. I have to say, listening to these full range with music is absolutely phenomenal... I will go into more detail after I run through my full gambit of test songs, but I have to say I have already cranked these further than I care to listen and they are seamless. I can;t believe I am getting something like this from a set of THREE speakers for barely over $1000. Just absolutely astounding. Erich, you can post my build and quote me on that sir smile.gif Kudos to Erich, for the vision to get these horns going, MTG for building out some most excellent XO for me, and HTdoc for supplying the TD's when they were still in short order. My only hope is that John at AE can start cranking these woofers out quick for all interested because they are just absolutely unreal. Still at +5 on some serious tracks, haven't seen them move if I had to guess much past half of their usable ability excursion wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


dang, as you quoted eloquently, my opinions so far should speak for themselves!! haha. I LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More listening impression to come, if you guys leave me alone...haha:D







Excellent yet predictable. Awesome turnout! Solid response down low. Maybe with your and Gorillas now clearly documented 'mains' extension down low, we can push the movement for full range mains + subs. It's a large (no pun intended) part of my build. Turn on double bass and get back to me. biggrin.gif

And if the trio of TD12X's sounds like fun, imagine four TD15's per channel. eek.gif I can wish... I can wish.

Anyway. Awesome results, bro. Enjoy. smile.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Bass Addict:
Axiom had been on my short list a year or so ago.

FWIW, the area of the two M60 6.5" woofers is around 66" (speaking theoretically).
One 10" woofer is 79".
One 12" woofer is 113".

Then pick drivers for less extension and more sensitivity and mid-bass punch.

I think that alone, aside from thr tweeter and directivity differences, might be worth checking out.
Eyleron is online now  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Hahaha this page is great biggrin.gif

This was an untested design so I am glad everything worked out so well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

So was this a design blend from Bwaslo and MTG?

Bill Waslo did the design work I just made a few part upgrades and built the crossovers for Beast.
mtg90 is offline  
Old 01-28-2013, 11:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Is there a similar crossover available in a flat pack for this woofer? Those charts have me very intrigued. I'm pretty much sold on building a SEOS now, just deciding on which one.
bhazard is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:52 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,856
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 568 Post(s)
Liked: 1170
"Just out of curiosity, if you're not pushing the A&E woofers very hard, wouldn't other "lesser" woofers sound pretty close to the same? I'm talking about decent woofers from other manufacturers, not their lower end stuff."

that's a good question and it seems that different people suggest different answers.

the td12x has a copper sleeve on the pole, which drives down distortion, particularly intermodulation distortion. most of the *really* good drivers employ some sort of inductance management. the jbl 2226h, for example, includes a shorting ring, to help linearize inductance which in turn reduces intermodulation distortion. does it matter? sure. this is why wayne has offered it as an upgrade in his 4pi speaker vs. the entry level eminence omega 15" for at least a decade. is it a night and day difference that you will notice right away? no. it is more like one of those things that is a little harder to quantify like "listener fatique". dr. earl geddes chose the b&c 15tbx100 for the same reason--good inductance management--over many of the less expensive but otherwise similar b&c drivers.

good inductance management is important and many of the top driver manufacturers put lots of copper in their motors for this reason. scan speak was one of the first. klippel, who has made a science out of quantifying and measuring speaker characteristics that correlate to subjective performance, has at least two measurements of inductance management. so if you want "pretty close", there are many lower cost options. if you want to shoot for top performance, this is one area where spending a lot more gets you a little more, but it does get you more.
zheka likes this.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 05:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,734
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Looks like that slight dip at crossover might be a measurement artifact since it smoothes out at the LP?

Maybe too close for complete summation?
NicksHitachi is online now  
Old 01-29-2013, 05:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,593
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Badass Beast!! Glad you are loving them as I am with mine. biggrin.gif

Proper SEOS representation right here. cool.gif
Gorilla83 is online now  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,593
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Gorilla83 is online now  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,130
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Gotcha -- Loud and clear this time! smile.gif

Enjoy your further listening and report back. One thing though beast...you'll have to come up with another superlative other than 'absolutely'; I believe it attained the maximum number of allowable uses in the last paragraph. tongue.gif

Yea wow, I didn't really proof that post, terrible on my part. My apologies for the over-use and poor pontification, I was just MAD stoked at how impressed I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

Good stuff, though I think your room may be a bit overtreated on the lateral reflections. And like erich said, I think you want more toe-in and to pull the speakers forward and flush so there isn`t diffraction off the edge of the subwoofer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Looks like that slight dip at crossover might be a measurement artifact since it smoothes out at the LP?

Maybe too close for complete summation?

Not sure, if I moved the mic a little lower, where it would be about right at the phase plug's height, there is a pretty serious dip at 1khz, at the LP, up close, it isnt as noticable, and the FR is about the same as what I have posted around 1khz, just the top end rolls off much faster at that point. Could it also be too much of that "lateral" treatment? Where should I start? Each panel up to the front row treats a first reflection point of one of the front speakers, the ones beyond that are just for looks and for the surround reflection points. I like a pretty heavily treated room, but I could possibly remove some of the further back panels and treat the front wall a little more if need-be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

So was this a design blend from Bwaslo and MTG?

Just out of curiosity, if you're not pushing the A&E woofers very hard, wouldn't other "lesser" woofers sound pretty close to the same? I'm talking about decent woofers from other manufacturers, not their lower end stuff.

Glad you like the waveguides. And you're right, having all of this come together so the DIY guys can get this level of audio gear for a fraction of the price is incredible. Don't forget the reviews for anything you ordered! Lots of people love this stuff......not so many take the time to write up the reviews though. biggrin.gif

Where do you want me to review the stuff? I would be happy to smile.gif As far as the AE stuff goes, yes you could use a different woofer I would guess, but the distortion and linearity figures might suffer somewhat. The AE is just so friggin clean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Is there a similar crossover available in a flat pack for this woofer? Those charts have me very intrigued. I'm pretty much sold on building a SEOS now, just deciding on which one.

No flat pack, I just bought the front baffles, and cut the ports myself, and built the box around it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Oh BTW - what do you think of them vs. the T12s?

Up top they are both very similar, but the soundstage is more uniform from what I remember. The sweet spot is the widest and most uniform I have ever heard. I can pick instruments out of the mix better so far and pinpoint their location on the screen. down low, since they are usable to 20hz full range, there is no comparison, they will walk all over the T-12's there. If I XO'd them at 80hz, which I plan on doing for movies, then my general consensus would be that I like the SEOS better, purely for the fact the more controlled directivity over the coax plays better with my room, and sounds overall better to me smile.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,734
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 166
I don't think its a treatment problem. Are you using omni mic? Are your measurements gated?

Maybe lug one of those buggers outside away from boundaries and see if its a room thing. Either way the dip isn't bad, only a few dbs at the LP and within the variation introduced by the room. I do know that region is where our hearing is most acute so a couple dbs does affect the overall voicing sound of the speaker. A little dip there is better than a peak IMHO, a peak in the 1K-2K range can make a speaker quite unlistenable for very long. This may have been delibrate or expected IDK which is why I asked. Maybe Bwaslo or another design guru will chime in and school me biggrin.gif

Thats a very nice FR, You should see my snaggle tooth measurement! cool.gif
NicksHitachi is online now  
Old 01-29-2013, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
 
robotbunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 445
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

...Not sure, if I moved the mic a little lower, where it would be about right at the phase plug's height, there is a pretty serious dip at 1khz, at the LP, up close, it isnt as noticable, and the FR is about the same as what I have posted around 1khz, just the top end rolls off much faster at that point.

That's exactly the dip I saw in my measurements. It was more pronounced lowering the mic 1m and aligned with the center of the TD. Raising the mic to the midpoint between the TD and CD it is perfectly flat. That's point I have them set at ear level at LP so it measures the same.
Quote:
As far as the AE stuff goes, yes you could use a different woofer I would guess, but the distortion and linearity figures might suffer somewhat. The AE is just so friggin clean.
This is the copper sleeve that lowers inductance and thus improves linearity and decreases distortion significantly. Simply put, at low levels or reference level these TD drivers produce the cleanest mid-range I've ever heard. Voices are whispery smooth and in combination with the SEOS and DNA-360, everthing comes together...percussion and upper bass is amazingly detailed...cymbals have a shimmering sustain. Like you, I've gone through my entire SACD and DVD-A collection, everything has opened up with clarity I've have never heard before. I know how you feel...they sound really, really, good.
Quote:
The sweet spot is the widest and most uniform I have ever heard. I can pick instruments out of the mix better so far and pinpoint their location on the screen.

YES! It's crazy how wide the sweet spot is. I'll concentrate on the sound at LP and look directly at the speakers and it's as if the sound is coming from somewhere else... it's like you're floating inside a giant pair of high-end headphones...a sphere of very detailed, airy sound. They're so good it's baffling, I've actually walked up to them to touch the drivers to see if they're even on! tongue.gif Even way off axis, while not the best place to be, the sound is still very clean.
robotbunny is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 09:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Just out of curiosity, if you're not pushing the A&E woofers very hard, wouldn't other "lesser" woofers sound pretty close to the same? I'm talking about decent woofers from other manufacturers, not their lower end stuff.

The advantages of the AE drivers over most other drivers is not just how well they perform at high levels, but that they are some of the lowest distortion, high efficiency woofers available. In home use, even with a few hours of use, most of these pro woofers can dissipate heat well enough to be pretty equal in power compression performance. All of these pro woofers show advantages in power compression over typical hifi drivers.

The AE drivers give you Scan-speak distortion levels (or close to it), wide bandwidth (super easy to design crossovers when breakup is high), pro driver sensitivity, power handling and large driver midbass. Beyond that, they are underpriced IMO.

With all of that said, the Eminence and other pro drivers are also great. They don't measure as well as the AE's from what I've seen, but they all still measure very well.

As far as the difference subjectively, that is quite difficult to answer. In my experience there is a difference and when budget allows I choose the AEs over most others. With that said, I have some Deltalite 2512s and I like those too. Hardly chopped liver.
coctostan is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 42

Just shows that it's most helpful to see distortion plots at multiple levels. 

I would've thought that these drivers were indistinguishable at low drive levels (aside from sensitivity). So this is interesting, and I guess a low level distortion plot would help to show that?

 

And of course the high drive level distortion graphs are revealing of where the driver gives up, and that's too often missing. Even Stereophile speaker graphs would only show distortion at 90-95dB.
If the manufacturer states the speaker will produce produce 110dB at 1 meter, why are professionals not testing at that level and reporting the results?

 

It's like even reviewers are afraid to break something or reveal warts, which is frustrating to me. Show the compression, show me where distortion gets objectionable, or horrible. Every product has limits. People should be mature enough to know that and not think "this product has a limit?! It's not always effortless at any amount of drive? It'll eventually smoke and melt? What a terrible product!" 

 

No one expects a car that the manufacturer labelled "Power to spare, a joy to drive..." to be able to run professional races, tow infinite payload, and go 200mph. But the lack of revealing testing and reviews leaves many customers thinking something like that of their speakers. 

 

Sorry for the ramble.

Eyleron is online now  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eternal Velocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Just out of curiosity, if you're not pushing the A&E woofers very hard, wouldn't other "lesser" woofers sound pretty close to the same? I'm talking about decent woofers from other manufacturers, not their lower end stuff.

Motor aside, the soft parts on the AE woofers are rather optimized for less audible resonance.
Eternal Velocity is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,734
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 166
I love those woofers, if they werent so dang hard to get!
NicksHitachi is online now  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,130
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Thanks for all the comments gentlemen smile.gif So after I posted last night I went back down and began watching DMB live at radio city music hall, which is great to hear the detail the speakers can provide and for the first time actually preferred the staging of the show in stereo over 5.1 TrueHD, beyond that, I could run at reference on the 4311 and even though I knew the speakers had more, I wasn't going any further. That track is already a little hot, and at -0, it was louder than I could handle for long periods of time for sure. -5 was killer, and even at -10 the sound was full bodied and wonderful.

After that I popped in my Steve Vai BD that is also trueHD but once again , preferred stereo over TrueHD. I don't know what was happening but it seemed to pull some of the dynamics and richness out of the sound, actually, I think I forgot to check to see if Aud was on when in surround mode. That might have been it smile.gif Tonight I need to run Aud again to see what it does with these, and if I prefer the sound more. I know with the LS6's I hated them with Audyssey on. I also need to start on incorporating the 4 SI's I already have in, and see how well these blend together. I will also experiment a little with toe-in, and will pull the speakers up to the front of the sub boxes as suggested. That does get them closer to the screen and I don't know how well that will work out. Perhaps a shade of diffraction sacrificed for a better overall response with the speakers further from the A-T material? dunno.

I cannot WAIT to get home and play some more with these magnificent creations. This is my first real premium LCR build-out, and I really love what came out of it. I might be speaking too soon, as the Noesis still intrigues me, but I would have to state that unless I have to for some reason, I will never run anything less than a full range main again. There ya go Scott smile.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:55 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,327
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Liked: 1040
Damn right! Heheh.

No doubt at all that you hated the sound of a line array with Audyssey on. It would probably try and use a million filters above 1khz because of the inherent comb filtering that will go on in a proper line array. Our ears auto-EQ that out just fine.

I'm glad you are enjoying the sound so much. I'm sure a lot of that is on the AE's but prolly the XO and directivity too.


Now just throw in them JBL's again... plug them ports..... and you know the rest. wink.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,130
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Damn right! Heheh.

No doubt at all that you hated the sound of a line array with Audyssey on. It would probably try and use a million filters above 1khz because of the inherent comb filtering that will go on in a proper line array. Our ears auto-EQ that out just fine.

I'm glad you are enjoying the sound so much. I'm sure a lot of that is on the AE's but prolly the XO and directivity too.


Now just throw in them JBL's again... plug them ports..... and you know the rest. wink.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif

That is good to know smile.gif Also, I meant to ask, I don't have double bass, or whatever, but I am assuming with the Denons, this is the same thing as setting it to LFE+Mains on the bass settings?

drag the JBL's back up? There is room...haha. That ebay dude posted those horns back up without calling me in regards to those horns, I am pissed, I was gonna pay their way to me at just about the price he has the whole rig listed at right now. Why wouldnt you do that?!?!

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,327
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Liked: 1040
Every company calls it something else but the typical name is either Double Bass or LFE+Mains. Most won't use it cuz "LFE in the mains is bad, mmkay?!" rolleyes.gif Not when they are capable. Spread that bass out and cheat your way into having MBM's without having to make an MBM. Then you already have the actual subs in place. The stigma of the LFE+/DB/whatever needs to go away. I'll be the test guinea pig for that though so don't you fret. wink.gif

Ugh....silly eBayer dude. I hate it when that happens. You never told me which model you were getting but you could use all sorts of 'tops' for those bins if you feel like it. It doesn't have to be a JBL cd. But still... enjoy these SEOS for now. smile.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

That is good to know smile.gif Also, I meant to ask, I don't have double bass, or whatever, but I am assuming with the Denons, this is the same thing as setting it to LFE+Mains on the bass settings?

drag the JBL's back up? There is room...haha. That ebay dude posted those horns back up without calling me in regards to those horns, I am pissed, I was gonna pay their way to me at just about the price he has the whole rig listed at right now. Why wouldnt you do that?!?!

Yes, it is LFE+Mains on the Denon. I would suggest highpassing your mains at least around 30hz. There is no reason to run them much below tuning. In fact, I would suggest not running crossing them around 50hz to limit excursion to virtually nothing. You want to limit excursion on drivers that are also reproducing midrange content.

This should give you a sort of multi-sub effect.
coctostan is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:48 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,327
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Liked: 1040
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Yes, it is LFE+Mains on the Denon. I would suggest highpassing your mains at least around 30hz. There is no reason to run them much below tuning. In fact, I would suggest not running crossing them around 50hz to limit excursion to virtually nothing. You want to limit excursion on drivers that are also reproducing midrange content.

This should give you a sort of multi-sub effect.

That's a good point but I'd still give it a shot. Should sound fantastic at not quite reference levels.

I guess in my particular case I don't have to worry about the bass muddying up the midrange. redface.gif

Another good reason to drag up them JBL bins. Use that DCX to cross the three SEOS to the bins and run those sealed. No muddy mids. biggrin.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 129
I wouldn't go so far as to say it will create "muddy' mids, but IMO it is a good tradeoff. Dedicated subs will do a far better job below 40-50hz than the TD12X's. Running the TD12Xs in a LFE+Mains is likely a good idea though.

Ultimately this is all very easy to test subjectively.
coctostan is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
countryWV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntington West Virginia
Posts: 1,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 152
Beast your speaker build turned out awesome. What would you think about 4 of them as surrounds with the T12's as the front LCR? What about the CD upgrade BA-750 or whatever its called. Is there a crossover available for that? My idea is to do your SEOS build possibly with the CD upgrade from the 360 to the 700 with the TD12x if that will work. If and when it works out take the $$$$ saved and upgrade the T12's to the Noesis.
What do you think and how long did it take to get those AE TD12x?
Thanks
Chris
countryWV is offline  
Old 01-29-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,130
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Yes, it is LFE+Mains on the Denon. I would suggest highpassing your mains at least around 30hz. There is no reason to run them much below tuning. In fact, I would suggest not running crossing them around 50hz to limit excursion to virtually nothing. You want to limit excursion on drivers that are also reproducing midrange content.

This should give you a sort of multi-sub effect.

Hmm, the denon's lowest XO other thank running full range is 40hz, I guess that would still work. With any live concert I have that is recorded in 5.1/7.1, there wouldn't be any real content below that I assume, and if so, not much at all. The LFE+Main doesn't do anything if the mix is stereo right? You have to have an LFE signal to be able to add it to the mains right? If it is not there, I don't see how this would work. Ive always had LFE+Mains on anyways, so it is what it is. biggrin.gif My initial plan with these was to have them tuned low enough they could go about it solo with stereo music listening, but then have them crossed at the ole 80hz point for movies and cut the subs on. With concert BD's, I guess it is kind of in the middle of all that so I dunno. Even running full range on them last night, at ref, they were clean as whistle, but I digress, there probably wasn't much content below 40hz to make the driver unload anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

That's a good point but I'd still give it a shot. Should sound fantastic at not quite reference levels.

I guess in my particular case I don't have to worry about the bass muddying up the midrange. redface.gif

Another good reason to drag up them JBL bins. Use that DCX to cross the three SEOS to the bins and run those sealed. No muddy mids. biggrin.gif

Those JBL's are only good to 40hz, oh, ah, seal em' up you say? let em take the 80hz n down material. I will have to see how the SI's do before I decide that is actually worth it or not.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off