Liftoff in T minus 10 seconds. (final systems check) :) - AVS Forum

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DIY Speakers and Subs

bass addict's Avatar bass addict
11:48 AM Liked: 327
post #1 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 4,157
Joined: Dec 2003
OK, so everyone has come up with cute names for their new builds. After much pondering and deliberation (OK it was really about 10 seconds but whatever), I have come up with "The Scorpion". I'll let you figure out the correlation. smile.gif

I have a few final checks that I'd like to go over and make sure I have all the correct parts coming.

1) Drivers - 6 SI 18's

2) Amplification - 2 EP4000's

3) EQ - SMS-1
A) I am looking at a mini DSP but am unsure to what benefit, if any, this would provide over the SMS-1. Could someone provide some insight as to the differences this would provide over the SMS? Would this replace the SMS or complement it?

B) I'm assuming if ordering the DSP that I should just go ahead and get the balanced one? I'm running an Onkyo 3009 which if it matches up to my 3008 should have a pretty hot LFE signal. Should I still go with the 2 volt version?

4) Signal Chain - 3009 - DSP - SMS1 - EP4000 - Si
A) Does this look right?

5) Connectors
A) Analog to balanced connector from LFE out on 3009 to input on DSP
B) Balanced cable from output on DSP to input on SMS
C) Analog to balanced connector from output on SMS to input on each 4000

The cab will be built out of either 3/4" birch or pine paneling. I have decided to scale the cab size back from the original 30 cubes to 26. That won't change much for now, but should I decide to add another 4000 down the road, I can double output and still keep excursion in check down to 8hz.

The drivers will be currently wired for a 6ohm bridged load putting out 625 per driver. When upgrading to another EP4000 down the road, that will boost output to about 825 per driver.

Feel free to steer me in the right direction if I have drifted off course. smile.gif
brian6751's Avatar brian6751
04:10 PM Liked: 129
post #2 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 3,443
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Is this going to be one cab with 6 drivers eek.gif triple dual opposed!!!!! biggrin.gif

As far as your signal chain. Not sure if you need the SMS-1 with it but either way the mini should be the last thing before your amp so you get the boosted signal to the amp.


Bout time!!!!!
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
04:16 PM Liked: 327
post #3 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 4,157
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Is this going to be one cab with 6 drivers eek.gif triple dual opposed!!!!! biggrin.gif
As far as your signal chain. Not sure if you need the SMS-1 with it but either way the mini should be the last thing before your amp so you get the boosted signal to the amp.
Bout time!!!!!

I know. smile.gif

I thought about a tri opposed but nixed it for dual towers. Each cab will have 3 drivers in a vertical orientation.
brian6751's Avatar brian6751
04:21 PM Liked: 129
post #4 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 3,443
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The towers will be sweet. Standing up or laying down?
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
04:27 PM Liked: 327
post #5 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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Standing up, placed between my center tower and mains.
brian6751's Avatar brian6751
05:12 PM Liked: 129
post #6 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 3,443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Standing up, placed between my center tower and mains.

You have a AT screen then I take it?
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
05:23 PM Liked: 327
post #7 of 18
01-04-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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I do. smile.gif Currently a 1.78 being upgraded to CIH 2.35.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
01:21 PM Liked: 327
post #8 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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OK, I've got all the misc parts ordered with the exception of the DSP.

I'm still trying to figure out if the mini is required if running the SMS1. My options are in this order:

1) SMS1 only
2) Mini DSP only
3) Mini + SMS

Which would be the best way to go and why?
brian6751's Avatar brian6751
01:26 PM Liked: 129
post #9 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 3,443
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i would probably just use the mini only. does your receiver/prepro have Audyssey?
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
02:15 PM Liked: 1008
post #10 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 8,149
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Do you already have the SMS-1? I have one available if not smile.gif
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
02:30 PM Liked: 327
post #11 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

i would probably just use the mini only. does your receiver/prepro have Audyssey?

XT32. Aud does a good job but nowhere near what I need for taming and shaping the curve.

Besides, sealed subs need a lower shelf boost that Aud is incapable of producing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Do you already have the SMS-1? I have one available if not smile.gif

I have an SMS1, hence the reason for the question. If I didn't have it I'd just go with the DSP, but others have mentioned the shelving system is better in the DSP than the mini. I just don't know other than that how good a job it will do with the rest of the FR. While the SMS isn't perfect, it has done a good job for me in my scenario.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
04:52 PM Liked: 1008
post #12 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 8,149
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The mini is really good for shelving, but if you want to get REAL serious about it, you could send bosso your measurements without anything he could maybe build you a bassis unit which works in the analog realm smile.gif I still plan on using my DCX but I have hopes one day soon Berry will offer something I can shelf down as low as I care to. It is possible on the DCX, but takes a little work. I love the DCX though with that said, so easy to walk to the front panel and make adjustments on the fly smile.gif
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian
05:04 PM Liked: 1045
post #13 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 14,351
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The shelf on the DCX does go all the way down. You just can't start the shelf any lower than 20hz.... but why would want to? Most people need to start the shelf between 25-40hz anyway.

Now.. if you want to PEQ below 20hz... that's something else.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
05:19 PM Liked: 327
post #14 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The shelf on the DCX does go all the way down. You just can't start the shelf any lower than 20hz.... but why would want to? Most people need to start the shelf between 25-40hz anyway.
Now.. if you want to PEQ below 20hz... that's something else.

What is the different between using the shelf on the Mini and just tailoring the frequency response on the SMS? If the lower end rolls off why can't you just cut the upper FR and smooth the curve? Is this more detrimental than adding the shelf?
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian
05:23 PM Liked: 1045
post #15 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 14,351
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The shelf filter counteracts the natural rolloff of a sealed subwoofer system. You could sorta do the same with PEQ filters but it's not the same.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
05:33 PM Liked: 327
post #16 of 18
01-07-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The shelf filter counteracts the natural rolloff of a sealed subwoofer system. You could sorta do the same with PEQ filters but it's not the same.

How would it be different? So if I wanted to do this right I should run the SMS and Mini together.

How should I order the mini? I noticed it has some biquad programming available. I'm going to do a balanced one, I just need to order the right programming with it. Too bad the mic is on backorder. frown.gif
mjaudio's Avatar mjaudio
09:20 PM Liked: 36
post #17 of 18
01-08-2013 | Posts: 2,476
Joined: Nov 2002
I use a DCX2496 in line with the SMS-1, I am just lazy though and don't want to drag my lap-top upstairs every time I want to measure a new sub set-up. I also have a MiniDSP balanced but could never get that damn thing to work mad.gif

I use a 25hz shelf filter on the DCX2496 then add a PEQ boost at 15hz with the SMS-1 and presto, Mucho Bass!

If I had to choose I would pick the DCX2496 over the SMS-1. A shelf filter is a better way to boost the low end over a PEQ.

The MiniDSP is slick but you might get unlucky like me and wind up with a bum unit. For the price to ship it back and all was not worth it, besides I already took it apart to try and fix it so there went my warranty anyway.
bass addict's Avatar bass addict
09:49 PM Liked: 327
post #18 of 18
01-08-2013 | Posts: 4,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I use a DCX2496 in line with the SMS-1, I am just lazy though and don't want to drag my lap-top upstairs every time I want to measure a new sub set-up. I also have a MiniDSP balanced but could never get that damn thing to work mad.gif
I use a 25hz shelf filter on the DCX2496 then add a PEQ boost at 15hz with the SMS-1 and presto, Mucho Bass!
If I had to choose I would pick the DCX2496 over the SMS-1. A shelf filter is a better way to boost the low end over a PEQ.
The MiniDSP is slick but you might get unlucky like me and wind up with a bum unit. For the price to ship it back and all was not worth it, besides I already took it apart to try and fix it so there went my warranty anyway.

Thanks.

I ran a 2496 a while back and didn't like the noise floor so I sold it.
Tags: Velodyne Sms 1 In Room Bass Correction Kit With Included Microphone , Onkyo Tx Nr3009
Gear in this thread - Nr3009 by PriceGrabber.com
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