Atempt at repairing Maelstrom-x 18 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to remove the spider on my Maelstrom X 18 that has the rattle. Anybody know what kind of glue is used to attach the spider to the frame? It almost looks like dried Titebond or something. I want to try to soften the glue to remove it because the shape of the frame doesnt allow any tools to get in there to cut the glue away. Anybody have experience with any glue debonders or similar that would work for this application? I tried some nail polish remover and that didn't seem to do anything. Thanks!
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post #2 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 05:00 PM
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Are you attempting to re-use the softparts?
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post #3 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Are you attempting to re-use the softparts?
if at all possible, yes.
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post #4 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by keager View Post

if at all possible, yes.
Unless it's a very different design than the usual, you can't. Typically you'd have to do a full recone.

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post #5 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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I have never been able to successfully remove a spider without damage due to the adhesive (typically ca) bonding within the fibers. I am of the opinion it is easier to get a new cone assembly. I wish I had better news for you. frown.gif

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post #6 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

I have never been able to successfully remove a spider without damage due to the adhesive (typically ca) bonding within the fibers. I am of the opinion it is easier to get a new cone assembly. I wish I had better news for you. frown.gif
Chris
no worries, thanks. How bout replacing just the spider and reusing the cone and voicecoil, is that a waste of effort?
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post #7 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

no worries, thanks. How bout replacing just the spider and reusing the cone and voicecoil, is that a waste of effort?

The same issues will be present at the triple joint. I would recommend replacing the soft part entirely. I have found them to never be up to my standards after even carefully cutting everything apart.
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post #8 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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What is best for debonding ca? If not salvageable, Ill just have to have it reconed.
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post #9 of 36 Old 01-05-2013, 06:46 PM
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I am not sure. I hope someone else can help there. I use the brute force method. tongue.gif
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post #10 of 36 Old 01-06-2013, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I was able to seperate the spider and surround from the frame with them both in good condition. Now I need to order some thin epoxy to try to glue the ring in place.
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post #11 of 36 Old 01-06-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

I was able to seperate the spider and surround from the frame with them both in good condition. Now I need to order some thin epoxy to try to glue the ring in place.

Why epoxy?

I'd stick with the high-strength & flexible CA which I believe is what they use.

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post #12 of 36 Old 01-06-2013, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, i need something that is thin to drip down onto the ring that rattles in the motor. Then I will definitely use ca for the spider and surround
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post #13 of 36 Old 01-06-2013, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Well, i need something that is thin to drip down onto the ring that rattles in the motor. Then I will definitely use ca for the spider and surround


Can you post a picture of the motor assembly as it is so I can see how much clearance you have to work with. I used a very nice epoxy setup when I repaired a few 6 inch drivers that had separated the sider from the coil former and it was injected using a very small syringe. It worked great.

Keep cranking,

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post #14 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I will post a picture tonight. BassThatHz repaired his maelstrom and just used heavy duty super glue to drip on the loose ring. His is used now in a sealed box and it is still working fine afaik. It would be nice to have a tiny syringe to make sure the glue doesnt get on the gap imstead of the ring.
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post #15 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 06:35 AM
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Some years back I repeaired a $20,000 color plotter with crazy glue instead of swallowing a $2,000+ repair bill. I was a part of the print head/carriage. It worked and I got years of use out of it even though the stresses are rather similar to a driver (rapid direction changes, continuous operation).
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Originally Posted by keager View Post

I will post a picture tonight. BassThatHz repaired his maelstrom and just used heavy duty super glue to drip on the loose ring. His is used now in a sealed box and it is still working fine afaik. It would be nice to have a tiny syringe to make sure the glue doesnt get on the gap imstead of the ring.

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post #16 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Well, i need something that is thin to drip down onto the ring that rattles in the motor. Then I will definitely use ca for the spider and surround

I'
ve never seen an epoxy that's as low viscosity as CA.

You could also look into Loctite's bearing repair stuff for filling gaps between bearing races and worn housings.

Noah
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post #17 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 09:52 AM
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Fortunately the glue on the ring only has to hold together statically and only endure the VC heat; luckily there isn't a substainal load of moving parts upon it (like the spider and surround).

Got any pics of the gap and coil keager? I'm curious to know what it looks like in PI space. I repaired my 21's almost a year ago now and it had what appears to be 8 beefy layers on the beast. (Both still work to this day).
But the 21's doesn't have the z-lip at the spider, and most likely has a bigger gap too. Repairing the 18's would probably be quite a bit more challanging.

When you put it back together, because you can't use any shims, you'll have to hold the cone down while playing some soft sinewaves, c-clamps should work.
Once there is no rattle or rub from the ring or coil, then reapply the glue (without moving anything).

It took me a good 3 or 4 hours to fix each sub.

On a side note, I've been contimplating replacing my two aging SDX-15's with new RE-18's, and if they impress me enough, maybe all my Mal's too.
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post #18 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I have yet to unbolt the basket from the motor, so I'm not sure what I'll find
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post #19 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

When you put it back together, because you can't use any shims, you'll have to hold the cone down while playing some soft sinewaves, c-clamps should work.
Once there is no rattle or rub from the ring or coil, then reapply the glue (without moving anything).

It took me a good 3 or 4 hours to fix each sub.
.

Thats a neat trick to center the coil in the gap without shims, thanks for sharing.
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post #20 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I'
ve never seen an epoxy that's as low viscosity as CA.
You could also look into Loctite's bearing repair stuff for filling gaps between bearing races and worn housings.

I use Loctite products at work, the green ( bearing retaining grade ) is evil..... when it has set, it is forever. Extreme amounts of heat could cause it to let go, but that range is beyond what the motor will get up to in temperature. It is fairly thick though. Red ( permanent ) is a bit thinner, and blue ( removable ) is even thinner than that.

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post #21 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I may do two of these if repairable in an IB manifold which would make the heat a non issue
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post #22 of 36 Old 01-07-2013, 05:24 PM
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I can't remember exactly what this malfunction is. Is it the inductance ring on the pole piece?

If the rings are magnetic sleeves on the outside of the coil, then you have to get in under the spider.

Otherwise, maybe cut the dustcap, glue the loose pole ring, and replace the dustcap?

 

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post #23 of 36 Old 01-08-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

I can't remember exactly what this malfunction is. Is it the inductance ring on the pole piece?
If the rings are magnetic sleeves on the outside of the coil, then you have to get in under the spider.
Otherwise, maybe cut the dustcap, glue the loose pole ring, and replace the dustcap?

Yeah it's on the outside, the whole thing has to come out and even then it is a PITA to repair, you have to have the patience of Oprah and the endurance of a Navy Seal to succeed in the task.
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post #24 of 36 Old 01-10-2013, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm guessing the wide metal ring is the one that is loose? I tried tapping on the outside of the motor and could not hear it loose or rattle.
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post #25 of 36 Old 01-11-2013, 09:39 AM
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The red highlighted part is the ring, apply the glue on the yellow seam (top and bottom) the whole 360 degrees.

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post #26 of 36 Old 01-11-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I think im gonna remove and replace the dust cover so I can use an alignment shim.
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post #27 of 36 Old 01-11-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keager View Post

Thanks. I think im gonna remove and replace the dust cover so I can use an alignment shim.

Will that help? I thought the shim went on the outside of the coil and is not accessible through the dust cover?

Edit: Your prob gonna put DIY shims on the inside, does not matter.
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post #28 of 36 Old 01-11-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats the goal. Not sure how it will work.
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post #29 of 36 Old 01-11-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats the goal. Not sure how it will work.
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post #30 of 36 Old 01-12-2013, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I removed the dust cap from the cone and found another dust cap I guess. However it is fibrous material(outer one was plastic), and it is incredibly dense. I could not push my utility knife through it,and dont want to get to carried away.

My goal with removing the dust cap was so I could use shims to align the voice coil and surround when reassembling. My only thought to remove the inner dust cap is to use a dremel? That just sounds like to much that could go wrong. I have looked online and found a few techniques using batteries or low voltage power supplies to move the cone in and out during glueing to get everything in line. Any suggestions?
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