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post #1 of 158 Old 01-09-2013, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Well today did not go as planned at all. I must have pissed the HT gods off somehow. No one in my area carries any semblance of quality lumber. I finally gave up and picked up 5 sheets of 3/4" MDF. Here are some things I learned today.

1) Never, Never let Home Depot cut any of your lumber for you. I didn't feel like wrestling 4x8 sheets of 3/4" MDF around so I had them rip them in half. Let's just say I could cut a more square piece of lumber with a jig saw, blindfolded and freehand. cool.gif So I spent half my day trying to re square everything up the best I could before making my final cuts.

2) It will always rain when trying to bring lumber home. It's the middle of winter and has been in the single digits for a while, and today it warms up to 40 and pours. rolleyes.gif

3) Workhorse plastic sawhorses will not hold the equivalent of 5 sheets of MDF. I finished cutting the last piece and stacked it up on the sawhorses with the rest of the pieces. About 10 seconds later I hear a loud snap and the sawhorses explode, snapping the 4x8 sheet of particle board and 2x4's everything is sitting on. Almost every one of my fresh cut pieces has dings on the edges and some minor crushed corners. mad.gif There's no way in hell I'm starting over so I am going to PL the heck out of them and pray everything seals up tight. It's behind the screen wall so aesthetics isn't important.

Aftermath of mess.


Stack of cut pieces ready for assembly.

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post #2 of 158 Old 01-09-2013, 08:16 PM
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Well. Just think. It can only get better from here right? PL premium is some amazing stuff. If you have ANY squeeze out. It's sealed.

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post #3 of 158 Old 01-09-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Well. Just think. It can only get better from here right? PL premium is some amazing stuff. If you have ANY squeeze out. It's sealed.

That's what my wife said lol. It appears I can salvage it so all is not lost.

I picked up a huge tube of PL premium today just because. Maybe I subconsciously knew I'd be needing it later. cool.gif

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post #4 of 158 Old 01-09-2013, 08:54 PM
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Wow, rough day today man!

I know you said you are going to forge ahead and salvage the mdf, but if you change your mind or for future reference perhaps, these guys are right down the road in Kalispell and look to have a nice assortment of plywood:

Glacier Hardwoods
3167 Highway 93 South
Kalispell, MT 59901
406-756-9515
glacierhardwoods.com

I don't have any personal experience with them. If they're not in business still or whatever, I can't imagine there aren't any other specialty wood dealers in the area that carry decent ply. confused.gif
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post #5 of 158 Old 01-09-2013, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, rough day today man!

I know you said you are going to forge ahead and salvage the mdf, but if you change your mind or for future reference perhaps, these guys are right down the road in Kalispell and look to have a nice assortment of plywood:

Glacier Hardwoods
3167 Highway 93 South
Kalispell, MT 59901
406-756-9515
glacierhardwoods.com

I don't have any personal experience with them. If they're not in business still or whatever, I can't imagine there aren't any other specialty wood dealers in the area that carry decent ply. confused.gif

Thanks Aaron. Wish I would have ran across them earlier. I have so much going on right now I'm sure I missed a couple places that carry the stuff.

I'm actually glad I went with MDF just for the weight factor. It's going to blow moving it around until it's in it's final home; but once there it should be pretty solid.

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post #6 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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How much bracing would you recommend if I'm using 3/4" MDF. The cab is 64" H x 25.5" W x 18.75" D. I was thinking three center braces would suffice but am not sure if that's enough?

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post #7 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 05:12 PM
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How much bracing would you recommend if I'm using 3/4" MDF. The cab is 64" H x 25.5" W x 18.75" D. I was thinking three center braces would suffice but am not sure if that's enough?


I would do verticle and horizontal so you can reduce the size of each panel.
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post #8 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 05:14 PM
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I would do verticle and horizontal so you can reduce the size of each panel.
Here is my photobucket album- check it out and tell me what you think.


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By the way, some of the braces are just a slight off from the others. This was purposely done so that all the panels inside were not exacylt like the others and possibly resulted in lower panel resonance.
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post #9 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that's thoroughly braced. biggrin.gif

Hmmm. I guess I could do vertical and horizontal. So I would have 1 horizontal (as box is standing upright) separating each driver (2 total), and then 1 vertical with the driver poking through it tying the 2 verticals together (3 total). I will then have some partial bracing at the very top and bottom. This might take up a little bit more airspace than I planned on, but would tie it all together. That thing is going to way a ton when done.

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post #10 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 05:52 PM
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I think that's thoroughly braced. biggrin.gif

Hmmm. I guess I could do vertical and horizontal. So I would have 1 horizontal (as box is standing upright) separating each driver (2 total), and then 1 vertical with the driver poking through it tying the 2 verticals together (3 total). I will then have some partial bracing at the very top and bottom. This might take up a little bit more airspace than I planned on, but would tie it all together. That thing is going to way a ton when done.


Yours or mine?
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post #11 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 05:57 PM
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I think that's thoroughly braced. biggrin.gif

Hmmm. I guess I could do vertical and horizontal. So I would have 1 horizontal (as box is standing upright) separating each driver (2 total), and then 1 vertical with the driver poking through it tying the 2 verticals together (3 total). I will then have some partial bracing at the very top and bottom. This might take up a little bit more airspace than I planned on, but would tie it all together. That thing is going to way a ton when done.

The braces take up about .2-.3 cubic feet in my whole cabinet I think- It is not much. I like to use braces that result in panels being smaller in size as opposed to just running braces across the insides of the subs. That is just a personal preference, and with 1.5-2.25 inch thickness plus braces, it is like a tank. You can actually put your ear to the cabinets with the SPL's at 140dB in the Room and the cabinets do not vibrate at all. Newton really had something there- He was right!

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #12 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 06:04 PM
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Weigh a ton.


Yours or mine?

If you only use one panel that is 3/4" thick and use the birch- MDF will be about 50% heavier, it will be fairly light until the drivers are installed. They weigh a lot by themselves. How many drivers in the cabinet?
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post #13 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Yours or mine?

Yours. smile.gif
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How many drivers in the cabinet?

3 per cab. I'm guessing total weight per cab loaded with drivers is going to be pushing 400 lbs. eek.gif And I thought moving my old 300 gallon aquarium about killed me. smile.gif

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post #14 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 08:27 PM
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I have not looked at Robert's pictures in a long time, but you should check out the finished product. Some very nice looking and performing subs.

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post #15 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have not looked at Robert's pictures in a long time, but you should check out the finished product. Some very nice looking and performing subs.

Agreed. I looked through his build pics and he churned out a spectacular product.

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post #16 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 09:26 PM
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Yours. smile.gif
3 per cab. I'm guessing total weight per cab loaded with drivers is going to be pushing 400 lbs. eek.gif And I thought moving my old 300 gallon aquarium about killed me. smile.gif


Well, pretty simple to get a close weight on those. I weighed each panel before I assembled it and the cabinets were almost 500 pounds wood only. I knew I was going to be heavier than any scale I had access to, so I had to know what I was dealing with because I was moving these things by myself everyday to build them. I used 17 sheets minus the cutouts. I chose the sizes of the cabinet to get the most out of the pieces for the braces and it was assembled in place after the cabs were brought to where they are now. You only plan on single thickness plus double baffle? Also, It is going to possibly rock back and forth with the drivers all on one baffle- so give that some thought. Do you have any drawings? Do a few drawings and mull it over before you go full on and you will be very happy later. I know these drivers are going to perform- I had a good feeling when I first came across them.


Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #17 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, pretty simple to get a close weight on those. I weighed each panel before I assembled it and the cabinets were almost 500 pounds wood only. I knew I was going to be heavier than any scale I had access to, so I had to know what I was dealing with because I was moving these things by myself everyday to build them. I used 17 sheets minus the cutouts. I chose the sizes of the cabinet to get the most out of the pieces for the braces and it was assembled in place after the cabs were brought to where they are now. You only plan on single thickness plus double baffle? Also, It is going to possibly rock back and forth with the drivers all on one baffle- so give that some thought. Do you have any drawings? Do a few drawings and mull it over before you go full on and you will be very happy later. I know these drivers are going to perform- I had a good feeling when I first came across them.


Keep cranking,

Robert

Well I'm just basing it on the fact that a single sheet weighs 96 lbs. I'll have used 3 sheets per cab after all bracing. I'm guessing drivers are about 40lbs each, so I'm sure I'm pretty close.

I am going with single thickness with double, or possibly triple, front baffle. I've put together the drawings and have a direction. I was pretty locked in for dimensions as it has to fit behind my screen wall between my center tower and mains.

I'm hoping with the weight that it won't be prone to rocking but we'll see. If that does become an issue I can bolt it directly to my stage. It is sand filled and decoupled from all walls and should dampen most of any transferred vibrations.

Coming from my SVS PB12/2 Ultra with 1,000 watts, I'm pretty sure I will be, ummm, satisfied with their performance. biggrin.gif

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post #18 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 10:02 PM
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Well I'm just basing it on the fact that a single sheet weighs 96 lbs. I'll have used 3 sheets per cab after all bracing. I'm guessing drivers are about 40lbs each, so I'm sure I'm pretty close.

I am going with single thickness with double, or possibly triple, front baffle. I've put together the drawings and have a direction. I was pretty locked in for dimensions as it has to fit behind my screen wall between my center tower and mains.

I'm hoping with the weight that it won't be prone to rocking but we'll see. If that does become an issue I can bolt it directly to my stage. It is sand filled and decoupled from all walls and should dampen most of any transferred vibrations.

Coming from my SVS PB12/2 Ultra with 1,000 watts, I'm pretty sure I will be, ummm, satisfied with their performance. biggrin.gif


Bolting down was my next option to you. I really think it is going to rock. It will be like a lever with all the force coming from one side and so high up. I saw a single lms rock a much deeper box that was only just over 20" tall. Bolting down should solve the issues. It will look like the profile shot of one of my LMS cabs. I think you will be very happy indeed. They will end up close to 400 pounds as you stated. Not too bad with a little help moving them.

Good luck,

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #19 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Bolting down was my next option to you. I really think it is going to rock. It will be like a lever with all the force coming from one side and so high up. I saw a single lms rock a much deeper box that was only just over 20" tall. Bolting down should solve the issues. It will look like the profile shot of one of my LMS cabs. I think you will be very happy indeed. They will end up close to 400 pounds as you stated. Not too bad with a little help moving them.

Good luck,

Keep cranking,

Robert

Thanks for the heads up Robert. I'll go ahead and just bolt them down to prevent any possibly future issues. It might help deter theft as well. biggrin.gif

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post #20 of 158 Old 01-11-2013, 10:07 PM
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Thanks for the heads up Robert. I'll go ahead and just bolt them down to prevent any possibly future issues. It might help deter theft as well. biggrin.gif

A Big Dog helps also!biggrin.gif
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post #21 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 05:02 AM
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Top notch build Robert!
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post #22 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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All of you guys building cabs, are you really just clamping and gluing? Every cab I have ever built, I have glued and screwed. I'm a little nervous not screwing it. I can clamp it, PL, and hit it with a bunch of 18g nails if you guys really think that will hold down the road.

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post #23 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 03:37 PM
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All of you guys building cabs, are you really just clamping and gluing? Every cab I have ever built, I have glued and screwed. I'm a little nervous not screwing it. I can clamp it, PL, and hit it with a bunch of 18g nails if you guys really think that will hold down the road.

The glue and PL Premium is stronger than the wood once it bonds. No need to use screws or nails. I did use a couple finish nails in my subs just to secure it while I was clamping it.
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post #24 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 03:39 PM
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The glue bond is going to be stronger than the fiber to fiber bond. I could understand using screws and glue blocks on the inside, if you are going to be beating them up and down stairs, load in / load out cycle time after time, but it's totally not needed at all in something for the home. You can shoot a few high crown staples from inside the box through a glue block to hold them while the glue dries. Putting holes in the outside will just increase the amount of work to finish it.

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post #25 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 03:40 PM
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Only reason I use brads is in place of clamping. The glue is what holds it together. Not screws or nails.

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post #26 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Only reason I use brads is in place of clamping. The glue is what holds it together. Not screws or nails.

Thanks guys, that makes me feel better. Guess I didn't need to go spend another 100 bucks on clamps if I have my nail gun handy then.

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post #27 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 04:30 PM
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Right. Just glue it. Clamp it. Nail it. Remove clamps. Move on. That is all.

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post #28 of 158 Old 01-12-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
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All of you guys building cabs, are you really just clamping and gluing? Every cab I have ever built, I have glued and screwed. I'm a little nervous not screwing it. I can clamp it, PL, and hit it with a bunch of 18g nails if you guys really think that will hold down the road.



I was nervous the first time just glue, but I did a few test joints and it is the best way . Nice s
Smooth outcome. I do not use PL, wood glue and pressure is what makes it strong. Look up the website for Elmer's or titebond and they will state that clamping tight creates the best joints and it does. Plus you can clean up very easy with a wet rag.


Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #29 of 158 Old 01-13-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I stood there staring at my bottle of Titebond and PL premium and went with the PL. Holy crap what a mess that stuff makes. I think I got more on myself than the speaker box lol. The problem with the extra large tubes I'm using is it continues to spew out of the caulking gun even after releasing the switch each time. I also realized it takes less on each panel than initially thought. As Rilla said, the next cab should hopefully go easier. smile.gif

I do have a question about interior prep though. How many of you have used Acoust X. It seems like it would be beneficial in theory. I will be stuffing the cabs and am wondering if this would further improve upon reducing resonances. It's fairy inexpensive at 26.00 per gallon.


Even though these will be behind my screen wall, I will probably still cover them in Duratex. I was going to paint them but the extra sealing properties of the Duratex can only help further improve the over all solidity.

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post #30 of 158 Old 01-13-2013, 11:28 AM
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that seems like a waste of money. i would think polyfill or pillows would be plenty. i like the pillow idea. i didnt see it till after i bought the bags of pollyfill or else i would just stuff them in there

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