Behringer Inuke LF performance with low impedance load - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 83 Old 03-13-2013, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

seems like the shallow slopes don't give a lot of protection; have you tried a higher order HP and more boost on the PEQ?

I did play with various settings but this one seemed to model very much like a 15Hz second order HPF which puts excursion @ max power slightly above Xmax in my system. I am not sure if this is conservative enough but that's the gamble I took. Generally I think if a second order HPF provides adequate protection in a given system, then using this workaround should work just as well. almost.




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post #62 of 83 Old 03-13-2013, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

Ahhh Thank You SO Much for that Zheka, I hate being a Noob hehe!!


I am wondering How will I tell if I am at the Proper tunning I do NOT Want to go past the excursion limit as it is Only tuned to 16hz..(IS that the correct word??)


Also someone mentioned playing with WinISD How can I mess with WinISD to find out info they reccomended to do?? I thought WinISD ONly made the measurments for the hz rates in Db..

WinISD is modeling software. If you know specs of the driver, size and tuning frequency or port dimensions of the enclosure, then you can model how the driver would behave under given power and equalization settings.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/6330-winisd-pro-tutorial-download-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html

What do you know about your driver and enclosure?
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post #63 of 83 Old 03-14-2013, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

WinISD is modeling software. If you know specs of the driver, size and tuning frequency or port dimensions of the enclosure, then you can model how the driver would behave under given power and equalization settings.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/6330-winisd-pro-tutorial-download-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html

What do you know about your driver and enclosure?


here is what I know:


Thiele-Small parameters:

Fs = 17.7 Hz
Re = 3.4 ohms[dc]
Le = 6.09 mH
Qt = 0.37
Qes = 0.39
Qms = 5.59
Mms = 434.34 grams
Rms = 8.69 kg/s
Cms = 0.184 mm/N
Vas = 274.1 liters
Sd= 1029.22 cm^2
Bl = 20.51 Tm
Lp(2.83V/1m) = 91.60 dB



The Tune of the box is at 16Hz somebody else modeled it for me.. I will be pumping about 750 watts into it. If I can figure out how to set the amount of Wattage as the Amp I have is 850w..The driver is rated at 800W but Mark the guy from Mach 5 said NOT to pump that much power into it so I am going to start low wattage and work up..

I guess if the HPF is set to 16Hz it shouldn't go too 10hz.... I am going to try and do some modeling in WinISD PRo and see what I can come up with.. IF you can would you Please mind modeling this for me and see what you come up with??

Thnx
Gerald

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post #64 of 83 Old 03-14-2013, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

here is what I know:


Thiele-Small parameters:

Fs = 17.7 Hz
Re = 3.4 ohms[dc]
Le = 6.09 mH
Qt = 0.37
Qes = 0.39
Qms = 5.59
Mms = 434.34 grams
Rms = 8.69 kg/s
Cms = 0.184 mm/N
Vas = 274.1 liters
Sd= 1029.22 cm^2
Bl = 20.51 Tm
Lp(2.83V/1m) = 91.60 dB



The Tune of the box is at 16Hz somebody else modeled it for me.. I will be pumping about 750 watts into it. If I can figure out how to set the amount of Wattage as the Amp I have is 850w..The driver is rated at 800W but Mark the guy from Mach 5 said NOT to pump that much power into it so I am going to start low wattage and work up..

I guess if the HPF is set to 16Hz it shouldn't go too 10hz.... I am going to try and do some modeling in WinISD PRo and see what I can come up with.. IF you can would you Please mind modeling this for me and see what you come up with??

Thnx
Gerald

internal volume of the enclosure is also needed. there are online calculators you can use if it's not known

is that mach 5 audio IXL 18" driver?
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post #65 of 83 Old 03-14-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

internal volume of the enclosure is also needed. there are online calculators you can use if it's not known

is that mach 5 audio IXL 18" driver?


Yes it is the Mach 5 IXL 18.4 18" Driver wink.gif the volume of the cabinet is 285L

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post #66 of 83 Old 03-14-2013, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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here is the settings I think would work for you.

750W signal.

Gray - no HPF
Blue - 15Hz 2nd order HPF
Red - the workaround. 2dB Q=1 PEQ boost @20Hz and 1st order HPF @22Hz(this is different from the original 20Hz setting)





setting the HPF slightly higher provides better excursion control and still keeps the overall curve above tuning very similar to the real 15Hz 2nd order HPF. I willl probably use this setting with my subs.

Noah, what do you think?
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post #67 of 83 Old 03-14-2013, 09:05 PM
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That actually looks pretty good, thanks.

I didn't even know WiNISD had parametric EQ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

I did play with various settings but this one seemed to model very much like a 15Hz second order HPF which puts excursion @ max power slightly above Xmax in my system. I am not sure if this is conservative enough but that's the gamble I took. Generally I think if a second order HPF provides adequate protection in a given system, then using this workaround should work just as well. almost.




Noah
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post #68 of 83 Old 03-15-2013, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

here is the settings I think would work for you.

750W signal.

Gray - no HPF
Blue - 15Hz 2nd order HPF
Red - the workaround. 2dB Q=1 PEQ boost @20Hz and 1st order HPF @22Hz(this is different from the original 20Hz setting)





setting the HPF slightly higher provides better excursion control and still keeps the overall curve above tuning very similar to the real 15Hz 2nd order HPF. I willl probably use this setting with my subs.

Noah, what do you think?


OK I was close in some stuff when I applied the T/S Paramaters.. I am wondering how do I make it a 1st order HPF?? is that the Butterworth with 612db??

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post #69 of 83 Old 03-15-2013, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Nephilim1 View Post

OK I was close in some stuff when I applied the T/S Paramaters.. I am wondering how do I make it a 1st order HPF?? is that the Butterworth with 612db??
Yes, 1st order HPF is Butterworth 6dB.
The settings are the same as in the snapshots I posted in #58, only the HPF is set @ 22Hz instead of 20Hz.
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post #70 of 83 Old 02-08-2014, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"The only issue I have with my iNuke 3000DSP is the lack of any DSP functionality below 20 Hz. My subs need a slightly lower highpass than that...."

i believe that you can "wing it" with a combination of a 2nd order high pass and a low shelf with *negative* gain.

a second order high pass filter set to 20hz will have a -3db point at 20hz and will be down -12db at 10hz.

a high shelf 12db/octave (hs12) set to 20HZ will have a +3db point at 20hz and will be up +9db at 10hz.

together, these two filter produce the same thing as a second order high pass filter set to 10hz.

of course, you don't have to use 20hz for a 10hz net, you can set both filters for 30hz in order to achieve a 15hz high pass net.

the only downside is that the noise floor will be higher, which may not be a problem.

So if I'm building a dual opposed or 2 single sealed (on the same amp bridged) do I apply the same technique on my 3000dsp? Can it do a linkwitz transform? Is that better?

Thanks,

Pete
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post #71 of 83 Old 06-07-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here is a picture of the filters.

divide the frequencies by 10, i.e. 100hz in the picture is 10hz. winisd gets screwed up with filters down under a few hz.

yellow line is a second order high pass filter at 200hz.

red line is 12db/oct high shelf filter at 200hz with -12 gain.

green line is the net of the two filters--a second order high pass filter at 100hz.



Thanks for this ! biggrin.gif

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post #72 of 83 Old 08-02-2014, 09:28 PM
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Thanks as well LTD

Equipment: Denon AVR-4520, Fusion Tempest (LCR), Fusion Alchemy (4xSurrounds+Wides+Heights),15" Dayton Ultimax X 4, SMX 2.35:1 Screen
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post #73 of 83 Old 08-02-2014, 09:35 PM
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Did I do this correctly?


Attached Thumbnails
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post #74 of 83 Old 08-02-2014, 10:33 PM
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couple of points there jeff.


for about a 15hz high pass:
set the high pass freq 1 to 20hz.
on filter 1, set the frequency to 20hz and change the shelf to -5db.


the low pass filter is a separate issue. that should not be at slope 48db, as that will mess up your phase bigtime. if you are using an lfe/subwoofer output on an avr, just turn the low pass off because it will be taken care in the avr itself.

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post #75 of 83 Old 08-02-2014, 10:58 PM
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That will make it 16 times harder to get the maximum watts out of the amplifier above 30hz; which depending on the conditions may cause you to clip the amp input trying make the higher frequencies sound powerful (which may be impossible at that point).

A positive low-shelf would be better with the inukeDSP, it avoids clipping or reducing sensitivity; as the XO is likely applied before the PEQ, so you are just bringing back some of the ULF that was already removed.
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post #76 of 83 Old 08-03-2014, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
That will make it 16 times harder to get the maximum watts out of the amplifier above 30hz; which depending on the conditions may cause you to clip the amp input trying make the higher frequencies sound powerful (which may be impossible at that point).

A positive low-shelf would be better with the inukeDSP, it avoids clipping or reducing sensitivity; as the XO is likely applied before the PEQ, so you are just bringing back some of the ULF that was already removed.
Thanks LTD02

BassThatHz & LTD02: What should I put my settings at then? I have a 15" Ultimax (x2) and wanted to extend down. I have the iNuke6000.

What would be your suggestion? I'd like to extend them as low as is reasonable considering that i have. I have them in a 3cuft box based on the kit Parts Express offered. I have 4 total, but the two first ones I purchased have a Bash 500s plate amp. I thought drivers would extend to 15 Hz....perhaps I'm wrong

I'll eliminate the low pass at 100Hz.

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Last edited by Jeff in Canada; 08-03-2014 at 07:42 AM.
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post #77 of 83 Old 08-03-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Canada View Post
Thanks LTD02

BassThatHz & LTD02: What should I put my settings at then? I have a 15" Ultimax (x2) and wanted to extend down. I have the iNuke6000.

What would be your suggestion? I'd like to extend them as low as is reasonable considering that i have. I have them in a 3cuft box based on the kit Parts Express offered. I have 4 total, but the two first ones I purchased have a Bash 500s plate amp. I thought drivers would extend to 15 Hz....perhaps I'm wrong

I'll eliminate the low pass at 100Hz.
Are you in sealed boxes? If so, you do not need to HP or LP at the inuke, just LP in your avr. If sealed then extending the bottom end would be more like doing a ls12 at 20hz +9 db and then cutting with PEQ at 20hz -9db or -6db q=2 depending on what you need in room to attain a house curve you like. Measuring the subs response with REW and a mic would be the best way to figure out where to start your ls12 (20hz, 25hz, 30hz) and how much boosting you need to get it dialed in.

My 2 newb cents.
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post #78 of 83 Old 08-03-2014, 11:01 AM
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Is the consensus on these amps that they do provide enough output below 20hz for home theater use?

Lumenlab "Community driven video lab".
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post #79 of 83 Old 08-03-2014, 11:09 AM
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I'm curious on how to implement an L/T with the 6kdsp as well. Sealed here.

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post #80 of 83 Old 08-03-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
Is the consensus on these amps that they do provide enough output below 20hz for home theater use?
Inukes are great, get down well below 20. I get output to 10hz at least.
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post #81 of 83 Old 08-03-2014, 04:12 PM
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LTD / Bass How should I configure the iNuke for what I'm looking for with a 15" Ultimax in a sealed 3 cuft box?

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post #82 of 83 Old 08-04-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
Is the consensus on these amps that they do provide enough output below 20hz for home theater use?
These iNukexxxxdsp amps are perfect for home theater as they are extremely cost efficient offering plenty of current/watts as well as having built in EQ/DSP capabilities for a very small amount of cash. There are work-a-rounds that are available to extend the response down below 20hz. These are what we are currently discussing.
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post #83 of 83 Old 08-04-2014, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
These iNukexxxxdsp amps are perfect for home theater as they are extremely cost efficient offering plenty of current/watts as well as having built in EQ/DSP capabilities for a very small amount of cash. There are work-a-rounds that are available to extend the response down below 20hz. These are what we are currently discussing.
Awesome, definitely getting one later this month. Could you tell me about or link me to the work arounds? Are they difficult to do?
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