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post #121 of 134 Old 01-03-2014, 07:21 PM
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Edit: Is that roll off normal or is that a HPF engaged or something?
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post #122 of 134 Old 01-03-2014, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

It's a slippery slope, using REW and fact based info to guide you.
Did you read the REW thread in the audio forum?
It's got great steps to guide you.

Yep. I hate to have facts cloud the picture. ;-)

I've been all over the guide and the forum. The fuzzy part for me is using HDMI with the AVR. I used a straight out of the sound card for my mains and subs.
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post #123 of 134 Old 01-03-2014, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan87 View Post

Edit: Is that roll off normal or is that a HPF engaged or something?

I used a HPF (10 Hz shelf, see below) in miniDSP. I didn't at first since these are sealed, but since I kept bottoming out the drivers when I pushed the amps, I thought it would be safer to use one.

What you are probably seeing is the low bass from the mains. I have the LPF at 60Hz.


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post #124 of 134 Old 01-04-2014, 09:48 AM
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Java,

I had a question, are you feeding each subwoofer the full 3000 watts from the inuke 6000? could that damage them? do you know how much is safe to feed the Dayton rss460, I mean they say maximum 1800 watts, but since your are feeding it 3000, is that safe? or it could be that the inukedelivers less then 3000 watts per channel below 80 Hz?

another question would be, did you change the inuke fan? is it too loud? I am considering getting an inuke 3000 for one subwoofer, might get the dsp version if this will be an alternative for the minidsp.
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post #125 of 134 Old 01-04-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldorak_20 View Post

Java,

I had a question, are you feeding each subwoofer the full 3000 watts from the inuke 6000? could that damage them? do you know how much is safe to feed the Dayton rss460, I mean they say maximum 1800 watts, but since your are feeding it 3000, is that safe? or it could be that the inukedelivers less then 3000 watts per channel below 80 Hz?

another question would be, did you change the inuke fan? is it too loud? I am considering getting an inuke 3000 for one subwoofer, might get the dsp version if this will be an alternative for the minidsp.


I have the potential to, yes. But I'm careful not to push them too much. I never have the amps attenuators past 12 o'clock and rarely even see green lights,much less red lights. That is part of my problem. I'm trying not to push too hard but then need to give it more juice. Again, either it's not enough or I'm bottoming out the subs (metal clank).

I was thinking about going with 3000, but per here, I got a lot of advice to go with the 6000. Sound advice.

Yes. The fans (two in the 6000) are very loud. Too loud to have them in the theater with you. I modded them with 80mm Nexus fans. Huge difference. Extremely quiet.

Last, I would have probably gotten the dsp version, but they were backordered when I needed them. Also, the DSP "only" go down to 20hz. MiniDSP goes down to 10 hz.
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post #126 of 134 Old 01-04-2014, 03:23 PM
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So with the fan mod, do you think it can be put in the theatre (in my case my living room) ? is the noise similar to a quiet pc with the mod?

another question, and sorry to interrupt your thread, do you know if this NU6000 can work with a transformer from 220volts to 120 volts with a 50 Hz frequency, does it have a switch mode power supply? the crown xls worked fine in this way, I suspect the inuke will work as well but if I get the nu6000 that would be a good 500 USD to risk. smile.gif

I feel the crown xls 1000 is not driving the Dayton to its max, at least at certain frequencies. it was a waist of money to get it. how come the Dayton have a 1000 watt plate amp with this, I doubt it will be able to drive it. Still not impressed with the output of this sub, I am trying to consider that the crown 1000 is underfeeding it as the reason for this feeling.
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post #127 of 134 Old 01-04-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java View Post

See, I'm not crazy

Ok, maybe I still am, but this proves what I've been hearing.

After many "oh crap, I forgot..." runs to HD and "honey do" projects, I am ready to do my treatments. With only two days left of my break, I'm determined to finish the treatment... rolleyes.gif

Anyway, I wanted to grab some REW measurements as the "pre" measurments before I crank on the treatments.

Per my earlier posts, I only did the REW measures with the subs, only. I haven't run them through the AVR, yet.

Below is my first try at an AVR measurement. As note, I'm using Dayton EMM-6 mic (with calibration file) and a TASCAM US-122MK11 usb sound card to my Macbook Air. I used the HDMI out of the Mac to my AVR (Onkyo TX-NR818).

I'm a noob at REW, so I may have screwed something up, with the HDMI route. I was able to drive 5.1 (technically 5.2) to the AVR. I had audyssey off and checked to make sure the subs we active (they were).




As I stated earlier, I'm sure I'm screwing up something in the gain structure. It seems it either too much (bottoming out) or not at all.

I'm going to move on to building the treatments. If I keep messing around with REW, I'll lose the weekend and likely my best chance to get the treatment done before I get back to the grind.

So that is with the subs active as well as your mains? If so no wonder you're underwhelmed.
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post #128 of 134 Old 01-05-2014, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldorak_20 View Post

So with the fan mod, do you think it can be put in the theatre (in my case my living room) ? is the noise similar to a quiet pc with the mod?

another question, and sorry to interrupt your thread, do you know if this NU6000 can work with a transformer from 220volts to 120 volts with a 50 Hz frequency, does it have a switch mode power supply? the crown xls worked fine in this way, I suspect the inuke will work as well but if I get the nu6000 that would be a good 500 USD to risk. smile.gif

I feel the crown xls 1000 is not driving the Dayton to its max, at least at certain frequencies. it was a waist of money to get it. how come the Dayton have a 1000 watt plate amp with this, I doubt it will be able to drive it. Still not impressed with the output of this sub, I am trying to consider that the crown 1000 is underfeeding it as the reason for this feeling.

No worries, Goldorak. No interruption, at all.

Yes. This is basically a silent pc mod. The Nexus fans are key fans in the silent pc world. I've hush up all my pc's and I can say the amp is now as quiet or quieter than any of my pc's.

On the power, per below, it looks like there are different models for the "power regions". Can you get an iNuke from a retailer (i.e., Amazon) in your area?

iNuke 6000 Power


As far as underfeeding the subs, have you looked into your gain structure? You are feeding a pro amp with a consumer AVR, so there is an imbalance in the voltage. Here is a good article: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-receivers-processors-amps/35677-gain-structure-home-theater-getting-most-pro-audio-equipment-your-system.html

I ended up getting a clean box to boost the voltage. It definitely helped. My problem is that I'm bascially guessing on where to dial in the clean box and the amp. Per earlier posts, I'm concerned about blowing my speakers, so I stay conservative. Inside that gain structure article, there is a pdf, below, on how to measure the voltage. I need to do that so I'm not guessing.

MeasuringAVROutputVoltage-2.pdf 271k .pdf file

Now, all of this to say I'm starting to think a plate amp is the better way for me to go. Two reasons. First, per all the above, there is a lot to balance in all of this. I just don't have the time to tweak all of this and miniDSP. I realize that these are more precise tools, but a plate amp like the dayton has a basic EQ to boost the low end for our sealed subs. And it's "plug and play". All consumer voltage.

The last reason is these are dedicated sub amps. I recently got buttkickers for my seats and was blow away by the size of the amp. This is a 1k watt amp that drives just the very low end. This beast weighs 25 lbs versus the iNuke weighing only 11 lbs.

So, I'm seriously thinking about getting two of the dayton plate amps and selling my "pro gear".
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MeasuringAVROutputVoltage-2.pdf (271.2 KB, 16 views)
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post #129 of 134 Old 01-05-2014, 10:03 AM
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Java,

I believe my receiver is able to drive the crown pretty well, I can easily clip the amplifier, I do see the clip light go on at many times if I raise the volume. I have the crown directly connected to the LFE of my Pioneer Elite SC07 which according to some readings I have done, has the capability of driving the pro amp since it is THX Ultra 2 certified and accordingly should be able to put out a 1.5 VRMS signal. and it seems it is doing so, since I do see clipping in the pro amp. Moreover, the crown has RCA input so it is a direct cable from receiver to pro amp.

plate amps have advantages as you said, but most people are saying that the Dayton plate amp does not give true 1000 watts, which maybe as well the case with the crown and others as well. But my point is that if I feel underwhelmed with the crown (or you with the inukes) what would the Dayton amplifier improve!

Have you considered (like I am) going the bass reflex road, i.e. turning your current boxes to slotted enclosures or the like?

as you once have mentioned usually in a DIY forum, maybe we shouldn't mention of the shelf products, but for the amount I am paying, I did feel maybe I should have got a Definitive Technology super cube reference or the sc8000. they are reputable to be good. But anyhow, we went the DIY way, and we need to proceed. I feel my sub can take some additional watts and should be equalized ( when I monitor the driver, it seems it still has capability of moving more; moreover it can handle up to 1800 watts, so I am missing around 800 watts with the crown, and don't forget at low frequencies I think the impedance of the driver is higher then 4 ohms, so it can take a higher voltage). When I travel to the states I will see if I can get the inuke 6000 DSP and just use one channel of it. Buying things here in my country are much more expensive, but the 220/120 volts issue and 50/60 Hz has always been a concern for me, until now all equipment are working via a voltage transformer. I "suppose" the inuke should be the same.

However, in your case as per the graph, you are only reaching 85 dB with the mains on? you mean at maximum volume? there seems to be something wrong other then the room structure and walls, etc.

another thing regarding the power rating of these amplifiers, they say the fuse is 25 amps at 120 volts, which is around 3000 watts, while they say that the power at 4 ohms is 620 watts, I do not understand how! I might be misinterpreting these values. (the same thing regarding the crown)
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post #130 of 134 Old 01-05-2014, 10:29 AM
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http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

Don't know if this has been posted over here or not but good info non the less.
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post #131 of 134 Old 01-11-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Super Chunk Update

I was able to hit part of my objective of finishing the treatments before the break ended. I finished the super chunk corner treatments. Here's my update...


Framing


As stated earlier, the bulk of my build is the same as Chas'. The major difference is that I used Roxul vs OC 703.
In the framing, I decided to use L brackets to mount into the wall vs using long screws straight through the 2x2. Mainly I did this for the top frame. It's tough for me to get a screw in that high (right against ceiling) versus dropping down a couple inches with the brackets.

Cutting the Roxul


The key is getting a cheap electric carving knife. I can't imagine doing this by hand. In the picture, I have two stacks (6"). The knife works fine through 6".

Stacked


You definitely need a frame/front panel working with Roxul. Even the short stacks want to fall over.

Front Panel Frame


Just like Chas's build...

Done


What I didn't show is the velcro attachments. I used industrial velcro which is too strong for the adhesive. Definitely staple the velcro to the frames.

Other learnings are to cut the frame larger than the triangles. I cut the frame about a half inch bigger than the pieces and it pushes out on the sides too much. This is more of an issue for Roxul. It's messy. I'll need to trim up the edges more...

It's hard to see in the picture, but I decided to use molding at the base. It was easier than trying to cut the frame around the molding. The panel ends at the molding and then I used some scrap molding at the base to tie in.

Last, get a power stapler. I have a manual one, which would have been a pain with all of the stapling. I found this at HD for less than $30.
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post #132 of 134 Old 01-13-2014, 06:44 AM
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Looks really nice, and yes using a cheap electric carving knife sure makes it easier .....
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post #133 of 134 Old 02-18-2014, 11:16 AM
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Has anyone tried any subs other than the 3 recommended for the DIY sound group 4 cubic foot enclosure?

Perhaps the Dayton Ultimax 18" or even the UXL 18" ?

Or anything else? Just curious if anyone has any results with other drivers with this enclosure. Thank you.
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post #134 of 134 Old 02-18-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post

Has anyone tried any subs other than the 3 recommended for the DIY sound group 4 cubic foot enclosure?

Perhaps the Dayton Ultimax 18" or even the UXL 18" ?

Or anything else? Just curious if anyone has any results with other drivers with this enclosure. Thank you.

You should check out the "main thread" on the sub flat packs: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1379949/more-flat-pack-kits-coming

This is a small off shoot thread. You should be able to find your answer searching the main thread. If not, ask the question there. Erich and the gang are usually pretty active.

I can't say enough about Erich's flat packs. I did my first build (LCR) from scratch and then "upgraded" to flat packs for my surrounds and subs. Huge difference. Not just in ease of use, but overall construction. Rock solid.

Good luck!!
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