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post #451 of 591 Old 01-26-2014, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffm13 View Post

It apparently does in my room, and it's a pretty big room at about 5100 cu ft. I'm using a single lilwrecker with an Alpine driver and one channel of an iNuke 3000dsp to power it. I set up a 24db/oct high pass at 20hz and a -12db high shelf at 20hz, which apparently gets it down to about 15hz. I have yet to fiddle with other settings on the dsp, so I guess it's possible that it could even go a bit lower.
How big is your room?
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post #452 of 591 Old 01-26-2014, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvtFoci View Post

I have 2 plate amps that rol off around 30hz. Is this going to be too high for them? I'm thinking of building at least two.

Yeah, they're about an octave too high.

Your plate amps will be down at least 12 dB by 15 Hz, which is leaving a lot on the table with the LilWrecker (basically - the part that makes it worth building this cabinet over something like the T-6).

Depending on the driver you choose, two is a pretty good match for a mid-range pro amp or two. DSP isn't really optional, these need a highpass and a few cuts for EQ.
Something that makes around 600 watts stereo 4R/1200 mono 8R. Lots of choices, but only a few with decent integrated DSP.
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post #453 of 591 Old 01-26-2014, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Yeah, they're about an octave too high.

Your plate amps will be down at least 12 dB by 15 Hz, which is leaving a lot on the table with the LilWrecker (basically - the part that makes it worth building this cabinet over something like the T-6).

Depending on the driver you choose, two is a pretty good match for a mid-range pro amp or two. DSP isn't really optional, these need a highpass and a few cuts for EQ.
Something that makes around 600 watts stereo 4R/1200 mono 8R. Lots of choices, but only a few with decent integrated DSP.
Well I have two others amps that have a lower roll off. Around 20 and one around 10. Which is the best driver would be best? I have a pretty small room.
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post #454 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvtFoci View Post

I have 2 plate amps that rol off around 30hz. Is this going to be too high for them? I'm thinking of building at least two.

Those plate amps might be modifiable. What brand are they?

If you are going to keep the factory 30hz HPF, there are a lot of horns that will get much louder with a much smaller cab.
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post #455 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Stumbo View Post

If you are going to keep the factory 30hz HPF, there are a lot of horns that will get much louder with a much smaller cab.
Do tell?
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post #456 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 03:11 AM
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There are a LOT of 30-50hz designs out there.
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post #457 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvtFoci View Post

How big is your room?

The theater is open to the game room, so the combined size is about 615 sq ft, with 8' 3" ceilings, giving me about 5100 cu ft. With a single sub, it doesn't fully pressurize the whole room--I'd probably need a few more to do that. But it gets plenty loud enough to shake the seats, and the windows, and the rest of the house since I didn't do any soundproofing to speak of. Right now, I'm running everything at 8 ohms (dual 4 ohm voice coils wired in series), with about 440 watts from the amp. Since the amp is rated for 2 ohms, I may try to run the voice coils in parallel. Just to see what the combination can do with one channel at closer to full power.
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post #458 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffm13 View Post

The theater is open to the game room, so the combined size is about 615 sq ft, with 8' 3" ceilings, giving me about 5100 cu ft. With a single sub, it doesn't fully pressurize the whole room--I'd probably need a few more to do that. But it gets plenty loud enough to shake the seats, and the windows, and the rest of the house since I didn't do any soundproofing to speak of. Right now, I'm running everything at 8 ohms (dual 4 ohm voice coils wired in series), with about 440 watts from the amp. Since the amp is rated for 2 ohms, I may try to run the voice coils in parallel. Just to see what the combination can do with one channel at closer to full power.
Are you using the anarchy driver or something else?
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post #459 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvtFoci View Post

Are you using the anarchy driver or something else?
No. I just have an anarchy driver sitting around unused right now. For the lilwrecker, I used an Alpine 15" Type S (SWS-15D4). List price on the driver is $230, but you can find them for half that price.
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post #460 of 591 Old 01-27-2014, 11:31 AM
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Damn it, I thought this was the anarchy build tapped horn.
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post #461 of 591 Old 01-29-2014, 10:34 AM
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Mike/others, once again thank you for your help.  I have ordered the Alpine speaker and it will be here in the next day or so.  I will pick up my wood and some more clamps and start on the construction based on the clarification that you provided on the drilling.  In a previous post you had mentioned that you would go with an Inuke 3000 with DSP for the amp (then I would not need to purchase any other items to filter the subwoofer).  I did look on UniqueSquared since you mentioned that you might be able to score one for $250 however they and many others seem to be out of stock of this amp.  That said it appears that I can still find a couple options for the amp at ~$350 new.  Any other options that might make more sense than spending $350 on the amp?  I have not dealt with amps in the past, my Sunfire was already powered and my receiver fed the main speakers with the built in amp so I am completely green in this area.  

 

thanks,

 

 

Joe

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post #462 of 591 Old 01-29-2014, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjbrim View Post

Mike/others, once again thank you for your help.  I have ordered the Alpine speaker and it will be here in the next day or so.  I will pick up my wood and some more clamps and start on the construction based on the clarification that you provided on the drilling.  In a previous post you had mentioned that you would go with an Inuke 3000 with DSP for the amp (then I would not need to purchase any other items to filter the subwoofer).  I did look on UniqueSquared since you mentioned that you might be able to score one for $250 however they and many others seem to be out of stock of this amp.  That said it appears that I can still find a couple options for the amp at ~$350 new.  Any other options that might make more sense than spending $350 on the amp?  I have not dealt with amps in the past, my Sunfire was already powered and my receiver fed the main speakers with the built in amp so I am completely green in this area.  

thanks,


Joe

Interesting. A quick search this morning suggests that though they are for sale, but they're listed as "out of stock" or "pre-order" at the reputable online vendors. I think that they're scarce for a reason. I've got a hunch that there is a revised version of the iNuke right on the horizon. I checked and saw that Behringer had iNuke V2 models up on their website the day before NAMM started, but they've disappeared again for now. That's all I know. Might be the same, might be better, might be worse. May never get released.

The next best option would be a Balanced MiniDSP and whatever flavor of amp you want, there are lots of great options out there. Unfortunately - that's a 2-piece solution, and as a result, it costs a bit more. You could also shop your local Craigslist, I scored a nearly-new EP2500 for $150 that way.

When it comes to amps - there are brands to avoid and brands to embrace. The amp testing thread here is full of great information. I'm OK with the Behringer stuff, it offers decent value for the money and though the numbers are nowhere near what the ad copy claims, the actual performance is good. I'd also buy Crown, Crest, Peavey, QSC, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Personally, I have no issues with a proper Class D amp, some folks feel otherwise. There is plenty of junk out there too, and to further complicate things - not all amps by a given manufacturer work well as a subwoofer amp. If you stick with an amp that's a known quantity (one of the brands and models regularly used here in the power range that you need), you should be fine.
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post #463 of 591 Old 01-29-2014, 04:03 PM
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Mike,

 

I did find the Inuke 3000 DSP at the American Music Supply website for $299 shipped with no taxes and and extra year of warranty coverage (I have no idea what that really provides).  Anyways, I did find the unit and have it now.  If anyone else is interested here is the link:  http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-NU3000DSP-LIST

 

Thanks,

 

 

Joe

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post #464 of 591 Old 01-29-2014, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjbrim View Post

Mike,

I did find the Inuke 3000 DSP at the American Music Supply website for $299 shipped with no taxes and and extra year of warranty coverage (I have no idea what that really provides).  Anyways, I did find the unit and have it now.  If anyone else is interested here is the link:  http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-NU3000DSP-LIST

Thanks,


Joe

Looks like you grabbed the last one - the site says "Pre-Order Today!" now.
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post #465 of 591 Old 02-02-2014, 11:20 AM
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Yeah, they did not show on there site that the item was back ordered and I got a notification after I purchased it that they had delays in shipping.  So I called them and they said they did not know when they would have the unit available again. So I checked back on Amazon and it is in stock at $279 and with tax it comes out to be a little over $300 so I ordered it from them on Friday.

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post #466 of 591 Old 02-05-2014, 08:35 AM
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LilMike/others, I have all of my supplies to build a single subwoofer now and want to obtain the information needed to purchase some of the other items needed so need direction. 

 

1. I have never had an external amp so no knowledge in this area.  Here is what think I need to hook the subwoofer up to the receiver. Sub out from the receiver to the Inuke 3000 DSP in (something like PYLE-PRO PPSJ15) and then this type of cable from the  Inuke 3000 DSP out to the SpeakOn connector LilMike states in the materials list (Pyle-Pro PPSS30 30).  If it is not bullet proof please also describe how to wire SpeakOn connector to the Alpine SWS 15D4, I have just never done it before so need some hand-holding.

 

2. I am building this out of 3/4" maple plywood so great quality however plan on just plan on painting it black.  What is a normal cost effective means of getting paint onto the speaker (I have seen some info on dedicated speaker paint like DuraTex as well as bed-liner paint).  This speaker will just be placed and not moved around much, I am assuming the bed-liner or dedicated speaker paint is used for durability for someone that might use these speakers gigs, if I am incorrect just let me know.

 

Again, thank you very much for the helping hand. 

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post #467 of 591 Old 02-05-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjbrim View Post

LilMike/others, I have all of my supplies to build a single subwoofer now and want to obtain the information needed to purchase some of the other items needed so need direction. 

1. I have never had an external amp so no knowledge in this area.  Here is what think I need to hook the subwoofer up to the receiver. Sub out from the receiver to the Inuke 3000 DSP in (something like PYLE-PRO PPSJ15) and then this type of cable from the  Inuke 3000 DSP out to the SpeakOn connector LilMike states in the materials list (Pyle-Pro PPSS30 30).  If it is not bullet proof please also describe how to wire SpeakOn connector to the Alpine SWS 15D4, I have just never done it before so need some hand-holding.

2. I am building this out of 3/4" maple plywood so great quality however plan on just plan on painting it black.  What is a normal cost effective means of getting paint onto the speaker (I have seen some info on dedicated speaker paint like DuraTex as well as bed-liner paint).  This speaker will just be placed and not moved around much, I am assuming the bed-liner or dedicated speaker paint is used for durability for someone that might use these speakers gigs, if I am incorrect just let me know.

You need an RCA to an XLR or 1/4" mono cable to get the output from the receiver to the input(s) on the amp.
Then you need a Speakon connection from the amp's output to the subwoofer(s). You don't need an actual SpeakOn cable. You can use a SpeakOn end and use it with standard speaker wire, preferably 12 gauge or better. The SpeakOn connector is made of 3 pieces that snap together with simple screw terminals inside that clamp onto the wire. All you need is a screw driver and wire strippers. The terminals are even labeled with a plus and minus. It is a no brainer.

Bedliner works perfectly. I have used on numerous builds. Durtex is probably the better choice but go with what is cheaper and you have access to.
You might want to consider cheaper ply rather than using hardwood ply that will be covered.

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post #468 of 591 Old 02-05-2014, 11:23 AM
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+1 on Duratex. Easy to apply and looks great.

Denon 4311ci with Mini DSP and antimodeL/R -DIYSOUND tempest towers (40" tall towers)C - DIYSOUND alchemy 8LS/RS - community D6MACHTSUB SYSTEM2-Stereo Integrity HST-18 D1 subs (happy dance) in dual 12 cuft ported tuned 16hzSub amp- Speakerpower SP2-12000
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post #469 of 591 Old 02-05-2014, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjbrim View Post

LilMike/others, I have all of my supplies to build a single subwoofer now and want to obtain the information needed to purchase some of the other items needed so need direction. 

1. I have never had an external amp so no knowledge in this area.  Here is what think I need to hook the subwoofer up to the receiver. Sub out from the receiver to the Inuke 3000 DSP in (something like PYLE-PRO PPSJ15) and then this type of cable from the  Inuke 3000 DSP out to the SpeakOn connector LilMike states in the materials list (Pyle-Pro PPSS30 30).  If it is not bullet proof please also describe how to wire SpeakOn connector to the Alpine SWS 15D4, I have just never done it before so need some hand-holding.

2. I am building this out of 3/4" maple plywood so great quality however plan on just plan on painting it black.  What is a normal cost effective means of getting paint onto the speaker (I have seen some info on dedicated speaker paint like DuraTex as well as bed-liner paint).  This speaker will just be placed and not moved around much, I am assuming the bed-liner or dedicated speaker paint is used for durability for someone that might use these speakers gigs, if I am incorrect just let me know.

Again, thank you very much for the helping hand. 

As others said, you need a signal cable. I use an RCA to 1/4" phono, works OK. An RCA-XLR will work too. No need for a bump box (unbalanced to balanced converter) in most cases.

Since I always wind up needing a custom length, I usually buy a spool of decent speaker wire, cut what I need, and buy some honest Speakons from Parts Express, because proper connectors matter. They're not expensive either. You need two of these to make the cable and one of these to put in your speaker cabinet. I install the cabinet speakon with a 15/16" drill bit, that seems to be a perfect fit. I use a little speaker caulk or duct-seal to make sure they are airtight though. They screw in with a pair of #6 X 1/2" wood screws.

Since the speakons I linked (and use) are 2-pole, they are pretty easy to wire up, just keep the (+) and (-) straight. I generally put the cable with the polarity indicator into the (+) pin. The cable can be assembled with a phillips screwdriver. The speaker connector I linked to will require soldering.

Wiring a dual-voice coil woofer can be tricky, you can choose series or parallel, and you have to keep polarity straight. There are lots of guides on the web. This is one of the best I'm aware of.

Painting? Simple 9" paint rollers like you'd use on a smooth interior wall work well. Seriously - a short-nap roller will work great. Before I started spraying, I rolled a LOT of my cabinets, and I still use the roller on the big ones, when I bother to paint them. Exterior latex will work fine, and you don't need the expensive stuff. The tougher coatings are definitely warranted when gigging, but gigging with LilWreckers would take a LARGE truck.
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post #470 of 591 Old 02-06-2014, 02:59 PM
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lilmike will the Tempest X2 (15") work? Thoughts?

I have the tempest in a 5.6 cube ported box tuned to 21hz. I have the space and feel like this driver could get a lot more use in a larger box. I want more lows! I'm currently powering it with a 900watt Bash plate amp but would get more power if needed smile.gif.

Fs: 19.5 Hz
Le: 0.95mH
Re: 3.8 Ohms (Voice Coils wired in series)
Qms: 3.82
Qes: .47
Qts: 0.42
Mms: 238g
Cms: 0.28 mm/N
Vas: 255L
Sd: 807 cm^2
BL: 15.3
X-max: 26mm
Pmax: 1000W
SPL: 87.9 db/1W/1M
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post #471 of 591 Old 02-06-2014, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewiz View Post

lilmike will the Tempest X2 (15") work? Thoughts?

I have the tempest in a 5.6 cube ported box tuned to 21hz. I have the space and feel like this driver could get a lot more use in a larger box. I want more lows! I'm currently powering it with a 900watt Bash plate amp but would get more power if needed smile.gif.

Fs: 19.5 Hz
Le: 0.95mH
Re: 3.8 Ohms (Voice Coils wired in series)
Qms: 3.82
Qes: .47
Qts: 0.42
Mms: 238g
Cms: 0.28 mm/N
Vas: 255L
Sd: 807 cm^2
BL: 15.3
X-max: 26mm
Pmax: 1000W
SPL: 87.9 db/1W/1M
I'd say based on what the other drivers are suggested to use, the specs look to be in the same ballpark so you should be good to go. lilmike may know something I'm not seeing.

I'm hoping to have mine in April. smile.gif
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post #472 of 591 Old 02-06-2014, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Re the Tempest X2:

I'm familiar with that driver.

A quick run through the model suggests that it doesn't work too well. The motor is just too weak for the driver to perform well in this tapped horn.

The Tempest X2 is a great driver for my F-20, actually.
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post #473 of 591 Old 02-07-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Re the Tempest X2:

I'm familiar with that driver.

A quick run through the model suggests that it doesn't work too well. The motor is just too weak for the driver to perform well in this tapped horn.

The Tempest X2 is a great driver for my F-20, actually.

Sweet! thanks mike!

BTW I have 2 Anarchy TH in my bedroom setup, great stuff! Thanks for all your contributions, you're the man!
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post #474 of 591 Old 02-07-2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Re the Tempest X2:

I'm familiar with that driver.

A quick run through the model suggests that it doesn't work too well. The motor is just too weak for the driver to perform well in this tapped horn.

The Tempest X2 is a great driver for my F-20, actually.
To help me learn, is it because the BL is too low?
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post #475 of 591 Old 02-07-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mitten View Post

To help me learn, is it because the BL is too low?

Yes, BL is motor force.

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post #476 of 591 Old 02-07-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mitten View Post

To help me learn, is it because the BL is too low?

For the amount of cone area and the resistance of the voice coil, yes.

There has to be enough motor force per unit of cone area for the driver to perform well in a tapped horn. Certainly, there are other considerations too, like power handling, linear and mechanical excursion limits, cone strength, and driver Q. At a first glance though, I look at BL, voice coil resistance, and cone area.
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post #477 of 591 Old 02-07-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

For the amount of cone area and the resistance of the voice coil, yes.

There has to be enough motor force per unit of cone area for the driver to perform well in a tapped horn. Certainly, there are other considerations too, like power handling, linear and mechanical excursion limits, cone strength, and driver Q. At a first glance though, I look at BL, voice coil resistance, and cone area.
OK thanks! I knew it was a combo of T/S parameters, but wasn't sure the main ones to check out first with tapped horns.
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post #478 of 591 Old 02-08-2014, 06:12 PM
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I have gotten to the point in the build where I have cut the speaker hole in the baffle.  I have a couple questions:

*  I am using the Alpine speaker, does the thick rubber stay on the speaker when mounted?

*  Home Depot only had 1 1/2 inch socket head cap screws, I have not constructed the inserts yet so do not know if this is too short, anyone know if I need the 1 3/4 inch version per the instructions?

*  Since there is no nut that will attach to the end of the screws how do they keep from coming loose?

 

Might be crystal clear once I put the inserts in, just wanted to see if anyone knows off hand.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Joe

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post #479 of 591 Old 02-08-2014, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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The inserts simply provide threads to screw the screws into. The compression of the gasket and the wood will serve to keep the screws tight, but it doesn't hurt to check them from time to time. Since you can just reach in the mouth, it is pretty easy. Make sure the flange side of the insert is in the throat.

I had to use 1 3/4" with the CVX, but it has a pretty chunky frame. The 1 1/2" should be OK. With the Alpine, I think the gasket stays on, maybe one of the guys that has built with them can confirm that.
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post #480 of 591 Old 02-08-2014, 08:09 PM
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I took my gasket off. Although I have never tried using it with the gasket on. SO either may work. I am so used to adding sealant tape that I do it without thinking anymore.
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