Lilmike's LilWrecker - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 586 Old 08-25-2014, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post
broken link? it comes back this page...
Just checked, it worked fine for me.

It is a link back to an earlier post in this thread, I most recently discussed drivers back in post 537.

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post #572 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 08:04 AM
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I challenge you to build this

Basically a more powerful smaller version of your lilwrecker. 1200 watts, 2 SWR 12d4's, 450 L internal. Same response curve ~2-4 dB more output.

Keep in mind I just threw this into Hornresp and it hasn't been CAD designed yet, also I wouldn't use this sub stand alone, it would also have a horn covering the 45-100 range so ignore that section of the response it will be LP anyways.
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post #573 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabaspeed521 View Post
Basically a more powerful smaller version of your lilwrecker. 1200 watts, 2 SWR 12d4's, 450 L internal. Same response curve ~2-4 dB more output.
As I've designed, built, and tested plenty of tapped horns already, as well as shared many of my efforts freely, I don't typically even respond to "challenges" like this. I can also assure you, the simulations are the easy part (though your effort doesn't look too shabby at a glance).

Since you opened with a challenge, I challenge you to read this.

Alpine SWR-12d2 Tapped Horn + Audio Memorial BBQ get together?

Been there and done that. You're a couple years late.

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Last edited by lilmike; 09-05-2014 at 09:30 AM.
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post #574 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 09:29 AM
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Sorry to have offended you I was primarily joking, I'm well aware that you've built a ton of horns and that I'm a novice at best. I am hopefully going to build something like this down the line for grins though .

I totally agree though that modelling in hornresp is 10x easier than making a 3d model and folding, but with "simple TH's" like the one I posted it wouldn't be any harder than modifying an open CAD file I have and throwing on another fold.
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post #575 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
As I've designed, built, and tested plenty of tapped horns already, as well as shared many of my efforts freely, I don't typically even respond to "challenges" like this. I can also assure you, the simulations are the easy part (though your effort doesn't look too shabby at a glance).

Since you opened with a challenge, I challenge you to read this.

Alpine SWR-12d2 Tapped Horn + Audio Memorial BBQ get together?

Been there and done that. You're a couple years late.
Couple years ago and I wasn't even building subs, I have a heck of a lot to catch up on (luckily have a lot of time to do that, only 21 years old).
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post #576 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
As I've designed, built, and tested plenty of tapped horns already, as well as shared many of my efforts freely, I don't typically even respond to "challenges" like this. I can also assure you, the simulations are the easy part (though your effort doesn't look too shabby at a glance).

Since you opened with a challenge, I challenge you to read this.

Alpine SWR-12d2 Tapped Horn + Audio Memorial BBQ get together?

Been there and done that. You're a couple years late.
That's a killer build (15 Hz alpine), I'd send you a PM but I apparently don't have enough posts on this forum, spent most of my time on DIYaudio/BFM each.

--Done derailing Lil-wrecker design.
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post #577 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabaspeed521 View Post
Basically a more powerful smaller version of your lilwrecker. 1200 watts, 2 SWR 12d4's, 450 L internal. Same response curve ~2-4 dB more output.
That thing is rolling off at 50hz, right at the heart of kick drum. By 60hz it's down. You can do better

You'd have to make a few adjustments to get the roll off higher than that to have it be impressive IRL. 50hz is too low to start rolling off IMO.

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post #578 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
That thing is rolling off at 50hz, right at the heart of kick drum. By 60hz it's down. You can do better

You'd have to make a few adjustments to get the roll off higher than that to have it be impressive IRL. 50hz is too low to start rolling off IMO.
At 488 L, the size is more manageable and more importantly ->>> I wan't planning on using it past 50 HZ.
I plan to build a few horns that do 35 to 100 efficiently and just use the "dual alpine" for that --> sub 40. DCX2496 so I can make them work most sharp conversions.

I could also just use my existing T60 from 35-40 up and have this tackle the last octave but I'm already cutting wood to build my dual alpine sws12d4 "club sub".

Seriously though, that will be another build thread, either here or DIYaudio, Leave this thread for Lilmike.
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post #579 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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It's all good. Debate and discussion is fine.

The Alpine Type R 12 is a great tapped horn driver. Tighten up the throat end of the your horn a bit and the response will be a bit smoother. The AlpineGeist used a compression ratio of about 3:1, and it worked out very well.

Unfortunately, a pair of the Alpine 12's don't quite fit on the baffle of the LilWrecker, otherwise I would have recommended them a LONG time ago. A quick look suggests that you could make the LilWrecker about 13.5" wide internally and use a single Alpine Type R 12 driver in it.

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post #580 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
It's all good. Debate and discussion is fine.

The Alpine Type R 12 is a great tapped horn driver. Tighten up the throat end of the your horn a bit and the response will be a bit smoother. The AlpineGeist used a compression ratio of about 3:1, and it worked out very well.

Unfortunately, a pair of the Alpine 12's don't quite fit on the baffle of the LilWrecker, otherwise I would have recommended them a LONG time ago. A quick look suggests that you could make the LilWrecker about 13.5" wide internally and use a single Alpine Type R 12 driver in it.
The way I have it modeled (in my head at this point) as with all my "simple tapped horns" is to have L12 be the distance from the throat corner edge to the center of the two 12 inch drivers, 1 12 inch driver and it would be the center of the cone -> smoother. You definitely do sacrifice usable bandwidth by having the two drivers "in a row" like this but that's the price of not increasing the cabinet width by a factor of two.
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post #581 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabaspeed521 View Post
The way I have it modeled (in my head at this point) as with all my "simple tapped horns" is to have L12 be the distance from the throat corner edge to the center of the two 12 inch drivers, 1 12 inch driver and it would be the center of the cone -> smoother. You definitely do sacrifice usable bandwidth by having the two drivers "in a row" like this but that's the price of not increasing the cabinet width by a factor of two.
In theory....

In reality, the response can wind up smoother than predicted. Though there haven't been that many (4 if I recall), my multi-driver builds with the drivers mounted along the horn's axis tend to measure a bit smoother than they modeled. I think this is due to spreading the acoustic sources slightly, but that is only speculation.

HornResp is an excellent tool, but it has limitations. There is just no substitute for building and measuring something.

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post #582 of 586 Old 09-05-2014, 02:31 PM
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I have built a LilWrecker at 18.5 inches wide (internally) with a RSS390HO and am currently building 2 more at 16 inches wide for 2 infinity 1262 drivers. The first one I built was the standard LilWrecker with the Alpine SWS15D2 driver, so far I prefer the Dayton slightly for SQ but the Alpine plays a bit louder. Both being driven with a BASH 500 each, HPF set at 17 hz, hoping the Infinity's finish off my sub duty needs we'll see. The Alpine 12's should play loud low and clean in the narrower horn design.
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post #583 of 586 Old 09-06-2014, 07:32 PM
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I have built a LilWrecker at 18.5 inches wide (internally) with a RSS390HO and am currently building 2 more at 16 inches wide for 2 infinity 1262 drivers. The first one I built was the standard LilWrecker with the Alpine SWS15D2 driver, so far I prefer the Dayton slightly for SQ but the Alpine plays a bit louder. Both being driven with a BASH 500 each, HPF set at 17 hz, hoping the Infinity's finish off my sub duty needs we'll see. The Alpine 12's should play loud low and clean in the narrower horn design.
Interesting that you can tell the difference sonically between the drivers when loaded in the enclosure, have you simmed the drivers to see what difference in response you should get? Sound quality is almost always (with the same cabinet design) due to room location and lack of EQ or different frequency response as IMO horns tend to be driver picky and thus one of your builds may be considerably more flat than the other - pre eq.
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post #584 of 586 Old 09-07-2014, 07:59 PM
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The difference is very likely because the Dayton is in a 18.5 inch wide build instead of the standard size 23 ish... With the narrower enclosure you reduce output but it also smooths out the peaks and valleys a bit. Since I have no device to apply EQ that is likely why I prefer the smoother response horn vs the larger more output horn.
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post #585 of 586 Old 09-07-2014, 09:02 PM
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How does the Alpinegeist compare to the Lilwrecker in terms of sound and max SPL?
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post #586 of 586 Old 09-19-2014, 08:56 AM
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How does the Alpinegeist compare to the Lilwrecker in terms of sound and max SPL?
I will bump ya.

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