Lilmike's LilWrecker - Page 22 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 16Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #631 of 659 Old 03-20-2015, 03:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I am confused... are the lilwrecker and the microwrecker the same thing?

I can't find the microwrecker anywhere.

Also - Has Mike said why he likes the wrecker over the f20? I thought folded was better then tapped.
goonstopher is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #632 of 659 Old 03-20-2015, 03:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 2,494
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
I am confused... are the lilwrecker and the microwrecker the same thing?

I can't find the microwrecker anywhere.

Also - Has Mike said why he likes the wrecker over the f20? I thought folded was better then tapped.
Not the same thing. I don't think lilmike started his own thread for the micro. Try here.
Mr.Tim is online now  
post #633 of 659 Old 03-20-2015, 08:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
superedge88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stillwater MN
Posts: 506
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
I am confused... are the lilwrecker and the microwrecker the same thing?

I can't find the microwrecker anywhere.

Also - Has Mike said why he likes the wrecker over the f20? I thought folded was better then tapped.
The Lilwrecker is a folded horn and a tapped horn. The f20 is smaller but doesn't go as low as the Lilwrecker.
superedge88 is offline  
post #634 of 659 Old 03-21-2015, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
I am confused... are the lilwrecker and the microwrecker the same thing?

I can't find the microwrecker anywhere.

Also - Has Mike said why he likes the wrecker over the f20? I thought folded was better then tapped.
Not as active on the forums as I used to be, sorry. No time for speaker R&D like I used to, and certainly no time to deal with another design/build thread.

The thread that was linked a couple posts up is the only place I've shared/posted the MicroWrecker plans on AVS, it is still very much a work in progress with me, it is just that I haven't done much work on it since I finished the test-build (not because it's that good, mainly because I've been that busy with the rest of life).

Rather than try to find a way to get it properly measured and tested, analyze everything, then re-fold/refine a few things that I'd like to change, then rebuild it and test it some more so I could present the finished product, I figured that I would share the interim plans I have at this point if people wanted to play along at home. The plans in that thread are current as of today. A couple ideas about things I want to do differently, but as yet, I've not changed a thing. When I posted them, I decided that it would be far easier for me to attach a file to a post here rather than distribute them via emails like I had been doing.

The MicroWrecker is much smaller (~20 cu. ft.) than the LilWrecker (~30 cu. ft.), it gives up a bit of extension, but it does get a bit louder. According to my measurements, the Micro's tune came in at 22 Hz. vs the LilWrecker at ~17 Hz. I don't have groundplane SPL measurements for the Micro that I 100% trust yet, the few measurements I do have for the Micro weren't done in ideal settings or conditions.

As far as preferences? Sure, I have mine, they may not be remotely close to anyone else's. This is audio after all, everyone has an opinion, and when it is your room and your speakers, who am I to say a thing if mine is different? For subs in my systems? I've tried a lot of different drivers and alignments over the years. Currently, I prefer the sound of a properly-done tapped horn over the other alignments I've played with, but that's just me, for now. I'm sure that there's someone conjuring up an even better way to make bass, we'll see what they come up with.

There is a technical reason that I prefer tapped horns vs. front-loaded horns when used as subs in a theater though, similar to ported boxes, there's an excursion minima at the tapped horn's tune. The cabinet is handling the heavy lifting at the low corner, not the driver. Nothing's free though, just like ported boxes, they unload below tune. I can deal with that via a highpass.
lilmike is offline  
post #635 of 659 Old 03-21-2015, 05:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Very interesting...

I might need to just go ported for simplicity ha
goonstopher is offline  
post #636 of 659 Old 03-23-2015, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
Very interesting...

I might need to just go ported for simplicity ha
Ports compress unless they're huge, and when they're huge, the build isn't simple.
Mfusick likes this.
lilmike is offline  
post #637 of 659 Old 03-23-2015, 07:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
Ports compress unless they're huge, and when they're huge, the build isn't simple.
Killing me! ha... not sure what port compression is. Had big subs so maybe I never experienced in recent memory. Before I got bigger subs I nearly killer my HSU VTF-3 though ha
goonstopher is offline  
post #638 of 659 Old 03-23-2015, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 124
In a nutshell, the port has to be large enough to function as a port, not just be a leak in the box. It has been my experience that more displacement requires more port area for the same tune.

There's quite a bit of discussion out on the web, as well as plenty here if you look for it. No point cluttering this thread up further.
lilmike is offline  
post #639 of 659 Old 03-23-2015, 07:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
In a nutshell, the port has to be large enough to function as a port, not just be a leak in the box. It has been my experience that more displacement requires more port area for the same tune.

There's quite a bit of discussion out on the web, as well as plenty here if you look for it. No point cluttering this thread up further.
Agree

I appreciate hearing a differing opinion.

Ported is the fad right now but horns have a reputation and it's great it hear from someone who has a great understanding of horns.
goonstopher is offline  
post #640 of 659 Old 03-23-2015, 07:51 PM
Member
 
bryan.lynch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
"You need large ports to move lots of low bass without port noise or compression. With the HO, we went to dual 4" ports, which nearly doubles the port size compared to the VTF-3 Mk 2."

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho-turbo.html

No free lunch
bryan.lynch is offline  
post #641 of 659 Old 04-01-2015, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Fi Q 15 added to proven drivers per cecaa850.

If you opt for the Fi, I recommend plain vanilla, no added options.
Mfusick likes this.
lilmike is offline  
post #642 of 659 Old 04-01-2015, 07:48 PM
Newbie
 
moswald80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 2
[QUOTE=lilmike;33132353]Fi Q 15 added to proven drivers per cecaa850.

cecaa850, I would love to hear your thoughts on the differences between the Alpine and the Fi Q 15. I am seriously considering upgrading to the Fi in my LilWrecker.

Thanks,

Mickey
moswald80 is online now  
post #643 of 659 Old 04-01-2015, 09:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
superedge88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stillwater MN
Posts: 506
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
Fi Q 15 added to proven drivers per cecaa850.

If you opt for the Fi, I recommend plain vanilla, no added options.
So with this woofer capable of 3 times the Alpine RMS, would that make a little wrecker loaded with the FI Q 15 about 3 times as loud? I'm sure I'm wrong, but I'm wondering how to quantify the upgrade to this new woofer.
superedge88 is offline  
post #644 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
lilmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Doesn't quite work that way, because power and SPL have a logarithmic relationship.

Log 1500 - log 500 = 0.47

0.47*10 = 4.7 dB increase

So, tripling the power nets you about 5 dB. It's significant, provided you have enough amp to take advantage of it.
superedge88 likes this.
lilmike is offline  
post #645 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 09:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
superedge88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stillwater MN
Posts: 506
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
Doesn't quite work that way, because power and SPL have a logarithmic relationship.

Log 1500 - log 500 = 0.47

0.47*10 = 4.7 dB increase

So, tripling the power nets you about 5 dB. It's significant, provided you have enough amp to take advantage of it.
Thanks for explaining that.
I think that a good option for me would be to do get 4 of the FI Q 15 dual 1 ohm woofers, wire the coils in series, then wire a pair of lilwreckers in series per channel of the Inuke 6000DSP and call it a day.
superedge88 is offline  
post #646 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 12:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #647 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Above is a picture of a Ficaraudio Q in a Lil Wrecker I built. I started off with the alpine and eventually smoked it (my fault, not the drivers). This is a serious upgrade. The box has more punch and output. If you can swing it, this is the way t go.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #648 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Alpine vs Ficar.


120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #649 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
This is not a drop in replacement however. Luckily, the bolt pattern is the same but the opening needs to be cut out about 3/16" bigger. I just built a template with my Jasper Jig out of 1/2" plywood, centered the hole, screwed it in place and traced the larger hole with a flush bit and router.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #650 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Template installed.


120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #651 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Larger opening traced.


120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #652 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:15 PM
Member
 
bryan.lynch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Larger opening traced.

Did you finish the cabinet with Duratex? If so, how do you like it?
bryan.lynch is offline  
post #653 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The Q is currently getting 1200 watts RMS and pretty much laughs at it.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #654 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Bryan, I've Duraex a bunch of times and like it This one however is Semi gloss latex.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #655 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
This is Duratex on a box I built with a pair of old Epik Empire drivers I was given.


120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #656 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:21 PM
Member
 
bryan.lynch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
That looks really nice.
bryan.lynch is offline  
post #657 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks Bryan. This is Duratex with a little paint spatter. I built this for my son's truck.


120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #658 of 659 Old 04-02-2015, 01:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Sorry for the thread crap Mike. Back to Lil Wrecker talk.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
post #659 of 659 Old 04-03-2015, 07:33 PM
Member
 
chilort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 56
I think I've asked this before (went back a few pages so maybe it was an email) but it takes some serious power to drive that Fi Q, right? I couldn't drive the 2ohm load with my XLS 1000 anyway.
chilort is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off