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-   -   Lilmike's LilWrecker (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1451519-lilmike-s-lilwrecker.html)

lilmike 01-12-2013 08:19 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Well, I have been talking about starting a proper thread to discuss this design for about a year now....

Anyhow - here it is.



Way back in the dark ages, radman12 tracked me down with his mad internet stalking skills and started filling my inbox with emails about how he wanted crazy bass for the home theater he was building. This was the beginning of what has become the LilWrecker.

The LilWrecker is a derivative of dB's housewrecker project. I tried to get as much of the performance as I could while making it fit into the space that was available. With a few builds, we had determined that the Kicker CVX is not a bad driver for use in a tapped horn. There are other driver options out there though. That will be discussed in a later post.

I started with the space that radman12 had behind his false wall, then factored in the realistic power he would be using, as well as response goals. After eleventy bazillion fold attempts, I finally came up with something that looked like it would work, except, I couldn't model it in HornResp any more, so I brushed up on my akabak skills and verified it would work OK.

We wound up with a tapped horn, designed to use the CVX, tuned to ~17 Hz. It barely fit the space radman12 had to park it, and was big enough that even with two guys, it still took wheels to move it safely (cause I'm old...). Radman12 took the plunge and built a pair, I measured both and helped with setup and EQ right after the paint dried (because I happened to be in his neck of the woods on business).

Once everything was working properly, a pair in his theater is certainly an experience.

I'm sure that as radman12 is able, he'll post up some more pictures and add some comments. For now - I will attach the zip of the sketchup files, a screenie of the sweeps (yeah, on that last one, we were driving the coil out of the gap down low, but it did not clank), and open this up to further discussion.

1W, 10W, 100W, 400W, and amp limits (iNuke 3000, bridged into 8 ohms), measured at 1M groundplane.



LilWrecker.zip 90k .zip file

Edit 1-13-2013:
Dimensions are 70" long, 28 1/2" deep, and 25 3/8" high, so each cabinet is 29.3 cubic feet external. This is not exactly a small cabinet. Each cabinet takes 4 4X8 sheets of ply, radman12 used Arauco. Bracing is not drawn in the plans, but is required. A single, windowed brace in the center of the panels is sufficient. The build was done with PL premium and 1 5/8" drywall screws.

Edit 1-16-2013
Hornresp inputs are attached. This is an approximation, as the actual fold uses one more taper than Hornresp can model. It should be close enough. My apologies for not including it earlier. lwv8_5.txt 0k .txt file

Edit 9-14-2013
How about some instructions?? Draft instructions attached, please let me know if I screwed something up or if I could clarify anything. The instructions provide a bit more detail as to the suggested bracing. I also bolded a few more drivers that are known to work.
LilWrecker Instructions.pdf 205k .pdf file

Drivers that should work based on specs I have (in no particular order)
(bold type means tested and proven)

Kicker 2010 CVX 154
Kicker 2010 CVX 152
Stereo Integrity HT15D2
Stereo Integrity HT15D4

TC Sounds LMS-R 15
TC Sounds LMS5400 15
AE AV15H D4
Alpine SWS-15D2
Alpine SWS-15D4

Sundown Zv3 15
Fi Q 15
Eminence Lab15

djkest 01-12-2013 08:51 PM

115 dB at 16 Hz, with 400 Watts? Looks impressive. Are you going to share dimensions / build instructions / finished photos?

maxmercy 01-12-2013 09:27 PM

Great Freq Response! Another tremendous lilmike design....

JSS

stormwind13 01-12-2013 09:44 PM

I'm about a week from building a pair of these myself, just waiting to see if the stereo integrity 15 works as a replacement for the cvx. I'll put up a build thread when I start.

urapnes1 01-12-2013 09:59 PM

Thank you again Lilmike for all your efforts on this forum.

beastaudio 01-12-2013 10:09 PM

+1...

Your F-20's are what made me discover true "HT" bass capable systems, and it might just be the death of me (meant: wallet) Still miss that incredible midbass those things could throw out. Let's get a horn good down to 8hz and I will be good to go!!! haha. Keep up the good designs, and killer directions to boot!

lilmike 01-12-2013 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

115 dB at 16 Hz, with 400 Watts? Looks impressive. Are you going to share dimensions / build instructions / finished photos?

Plans are in the zip file, as a set of sketchup drawings. We've not got instructions yet, but this builds a lot like the F-20 does.

Photos will come.

lilmike 01-12-2013 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I'm about a week from building a pair of these myself, just waiting to see if the stereo integrity 15 works as a replacement for the cvx. I'll put up a build thread when I start.

Everything I have heard to date suggests that it will. I don't own one yet, and have not measured one first-hand.

Here is a comparison, modeled with the published specs for the Stereo Integrity HT 15D2:


radman12 01-13-2013 02:06 AM

First and foremost a huge thanks and tip of my hat to Lilmike for his time, efforts, and passion for this hobby and continuing drive to feed our bass addictions. I am a young buck to this hobby with only about 3 years of building and enjoying real bass bliss since I started stalking Lilmike and now 17 built tapped horns and 3 years later I was finally able to build some monsters that give me an experience every time I fire them up. I ran a THT(just to see), then 4 of the anarchy 25hz TH's, then 4 of the T-6 TH's, and now 2 lilwreckers.

I am powering the pair with a ep4000 bridged and balanced minidsp for eq, hpf @ 14hz and another ep4000 bridged into 4 T-6 TH's that are around the room to smooth the response and just give that little more over the top ridiculous bass, even though they aren't needed, when we get liquored up for some loud pool or ping pong music smile.gif All said and done, I may just give each wrecker an ep4000 and let em have it.

My room is 15' x 35' with double 5/8" sheetrocked walls and they have no problem filling or pressurizing the room or making a wall flap with some sinewaves.

They are big, but enjoyable (until mike comes up with his next crazy TH), I added a red solo cup for a size reference, we all can relate to one of those smile.gif











skipz 01-13-2013 06:28 AM

I would also like to thank LilMike for time and effort he has put into this and other projects he has done for this forum.
Have been lurking on this forum and others for about 3 years , thought it was time to join.
Have been doing a 2nd floor remodel in our home, ( 40% complete), when this project is finished, my reward will be a pair
of subs of my choice (DIY of course). Still not decided as to what I'll build. Very much like the output of the horns. Also
been watching all the SI 18 builds. Already have a EP2500 for power of what I will build.
When it come time for my build, I will be asking some questions and looking for input from the great guys here on this forum.
I have read with great enjoyment over the last few years, and hope to continue as a member for a long time.
Thanks again to all here that make this great place!
SkipZ

brian6751 01-13-2013 06:49 AM

HOLY WALL OF MASSIVE SOUND WAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gpmbc 01-13-2013 08:07 AM

Awesome looking theater Radman and the speaker/sub set up looks like a most capable set up!

Gaugster 01-13-2013 09:29 AM

Great work again but I am still always startled by these horn pictures.

As I scroll through I see the first pics of the box construction. Looks neat but I can't yet get a sense of scale.

Then I see a finished pic and realize the enclose is the same size as a modest refrigerator. eek.gif

By no means a criticism. We are all slaves to the 1/4 wavelength rule!!!! But I have to think others have the same experience.....?

vitaminbass 01-13-2013 02:32 PM

are the white units between the LCRs T-6s?

radman12 01-13-2013 05:14 PM

yep

lilmike 01-13-2013 05:15 PM

Yes.

There are 4 T-6s with mouths coupled in the pic above that one.

And radman12 was 35 seconds faster... he's a ninja...

tuxedocivic 01-14-2013 08:27 AM

Wow, awesome stuff lilmike.

ack_bk 01-14-2013 08:49 AM

Wow... I cannot even imagine how this sounds.. Should rename them Homewrecker... Pretty sure you could do some damage with those smile.gif

stormwind13 01-14-2013 09:24 AM

There's already a housewrecker, which this design is a variation of.

stormwind13 01-14-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Wow... I cannot even imagine how this sounds.. Should rename them Homewrecker... Pretty sure you could do some damage with those smile.gif

Once I complete my pair, you are welcome to come hear them. Maple grove is about 40 mins from me.

radman12 01-14-2013 09:49 AM

damage and choas to the home is correct. I thought I overbuilt my theater room when as I was building but I soon found out you can never over build. I built a decoupled sand stage, does not touch any walls to lay the subs on, nor does it touch the screen framing. They make me wonder what would really happen if i didnt do the sand stage nor the efforts of caulking the hell out of every recessed light or anything that made sound due to vibrations when I would pound on the ceiling joists to explose rattles. Upstairs is a whole different story though......

That said, I am still trying to figure out a way to prevent my projector from moving off axis of the screen when I really uncork them to show their potential. I have a very good Chief mount and the bass just vibrates to the projector and causes it to bounce up and down thus making the image on the screen go crazy. During your typical movie viewing its okay, just when you really want to throw down.

There is nothing better than a deep tissue massage though in the comforts of your own mancave smile.gif

Oklahoma Wolf 01-14-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by radman12 View Post

I have a very good Chief mount and the bass just vibrates to the projector and causes it to bounce up and down thus making the image on the screen go crazy.

I fabricated a suspension for my projector mount. It helps a lot though that my horns have about 15 feet of drop ceiling to absorb all that energy before it gets to the projector though. I've never seen my projector shake, even at 120dB+ at listening position. The horns will flap my screen around some, but that's about the worst of it.

Given the ~115dB+ half space measurement at 400W, it's reasonable to expect this design to get easily into the mid 120's when you put it in a room. Mike's not taking any prisoners with this bad boy biggrin.gif

Glad to see this beast getting its day in the sun. I know he's been working hard on it.

NicksHitachi 01-14-2013 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by radman12 View Post

damage and choas to the home is correct. I thought I overbuilt my theater room when as I was building but I soon found out you can never over build. I built a decoupled sand stage, does not touch any walls to lay the subs on, nor does it touch the screen framing. They make me wonder what would really happen if i didnt do the sand stage nor the efforts of caulking the hell out of every recessed light or anything that made sound due to vibrations when I would pound on the ceiling joists to explose rattles. Upstairs is a whole different story though......

That said, I am still trying to figure out a way to prevent my projector from moving off axis of the screen when I really uncork them to show their potential. I have a very good Chief mount and the bass just vibrates to the projector and causes it to bounce up and down thus making the image on the screen go crazy. During your typical movie viewing its okay, just when you really want to throw down.

There is nothing better than a deep tissue massage though in the comforts of your own mancave smile.gif

PM sent.

lilmike 01-14-2013 10:32 AM

Oh, we ran out of OmniMic well before we ran out of amp or drivers during the in-room testing and EQ session once radman12 got the gain structure issues sorted....

If I recall correctly, my OmniMic started clipping somewhere north of 120 dB (with the mic positioned at the front row seats).

NicksHitachi 01-14-2013 10:37 AM

Nice work Mike/Radman,

If its anything like the F20 I'm sure its a crowd pleaser.

jpmst3 01-14-2013 03:43 PM

Awesome! Another great design!
Way to go!

Damn, another build that I wan to do!!! Ahhhh, make it stop!eek.giftongue.gif;)biggrin.gif

Scott Simonian 01-14-2013 03:54 PM

Lilmike strikes again!

stgdz 01-15-2013 05:47 PM

what does the dayton tempest look like in this for models? I'm guessing it will gain an efficiency above 20hz but lose out below that due to the low x-max.

lilmike 01-16-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

what does the dayton tempest look like in this for models? I'm guessing it will gain an efficiency above 20hz but lose out below that due to the low x-max.

Meaning the DVC385-88?

The Hornresp model (admittedly, it's an approximation) says we hit xmech (20 mm) at only 300 watts. Response rolls off a little quicker too, but it does make a bit more at a watt in.

onebadmonte 01-16-2013 05:40 PM

Lilmike, any chance you can share the your Hornresp "Input Parameters" page for this tapped horn. It'll help me hone in my tapped horn modeling skills and help me evaluate whether any these woofers I have lying around might be suitable candidates for this tapped horn. Much obliged.


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