Has anyone actually experienced the "Holy Grail" of Sound - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Have you experienced the "Holy Grail" of sound
No, I do not have it. 14 19.44%
Yes, I have it. 9 12.50%
Yes, but it is not mine. 13 18.06%
No, but I know someone who has. 1 1.39%
There is no "Holy Grail" - The chase continues!!! 29 40.28%
There is no "Holy Graill" I gave up the chase!! 6 8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been an audio crazed dude as long as I could remember. My first venture into sound was back in the early early 70's with my brother's who were 15 and 18 years older than me. I would hang out with them in the old chevy and hear all the tunes blasting from the latest 8 track. My middle brother is a jeweler and he started out back then doing shows at the Jazz fest and different fairs and such. I would always be tagging along with him and be able to see all the bands and the gear that created all those lovely sounds. Those impressions were very instrumental- to say the least. I cranked the old electrovoice system my parents had till the needle on the tone arm needed multiple repairs. As time went on, I would hang out at Radio Shack and at about 10 Years old, I bought a pair of Mach 1 speakers. I also bought an STA 2290 receiver. I was the man in my hood!! I loved those speakers and the receiver that ultimately drove them-They are now in my vintage room. No one has ever touched them and they are mint except for a refoam of the 15's. As a matter of fact, they give me every bit as much enjoyment as they did so many years ago. As time went on, I added new stuff, old stuff and discards from people who knew no better! Each new system had it's own qualities that can bring a smile to my face at any time.I hung around at the local stereo salon and the Klipsch room was my stomping ground. At 17, I bought my Khorns and did not even have a place to put them. I powered those things with a walkman once in a while with some amount of success. Yamaha MX-1's powered them once I had a place to put them and still do. All the while, I never forgot my Mach 1's. Higher end salons became a place to visit, but I got a lot of flack about my K's and were told more than once they were junk, so I tried to listen and audition but took the info with a grain of salt. The first guy who said something like that let me hear a system that was valued at over $140,000 according to him and it was impressive. The sounds were clear and the bass was tight. My first question to him over the about 70 dB music was "Can it go louder." He promptly replied ,"Well you realize blah blah blah" Basically no. I then told him that it really did sound good but I was the kind of person who likes both music like he was auditioning as well as concert sound and levels like Pink Floyd or Rush- my favorite bands to which he said my taste in music was not of his system. So, I bought a Jazz cd and cruised the joint. He still has a shop here, but I have never been back. His system was amazing for what it did, but I did not have $140,000 and his attitude about trashing my stuff ate me to the quick. Needless to say he had no HT, just stereo at the time and told me HT was crap. I set my first HT up about that time and that is about 22 years ago now- All Klipsch. Made my own wall plates by using blanks and Speaker connectors bought from a supply house. No Parts Express for me back then- I had no clue about any of that. The vintage stuff has been coming all the while- Old crown amps, Dynaco, Fisher, McIntosh, Sansui, Marantz,- You name it. Speakers included JBL, Electrovoice Aristocrat & Georgian, AR, Dynaudio, Polk, Boston, Cerwin Vega you name it. each has it's own unique place in my mind that allows me to go back and enjoy the times when those systems were "The Cat's Meow." Playing a 78 album on one of my turntables through that Dynaco amp with the JBL monitors has a certain "Je ne sais quoi" that is hard to describe. The pops and crackles lend to the experience- and it truly is an "experience" The other night, I fired up my tombstone radio and the tubes started to glow and the sound increased until I felt the same old feelings from that first time I turned it on. All of my HT equipment and all the bass drivers in the world can't do "That" for me. Oh, my HT is an experience, but it is a different animal altogether. I could keep going on as this is my only real hobbie, but I would like to know if you guys have any of these same feelings.

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?
6. Do you ?
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post #2 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 01:12 AM
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Never say never...

I'll elaborate my post when I get off the road.

Update:

Awesome story Robert. I'm 29 years old, so don't have near the history, time, money, experience (etc..) as you do in the hobby, but I can say with all honesty that I love it with a similar passion.

I'm going to answer each of your questions individually.

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
I already feel like a hoarder, so I try to get rid of the old once I find something that I feel is a better performer.

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
I just don't have the room to keep all of my gear.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
NO! While AVR's and other electronics are evolving at a furious pace, I refuse to purchase new gear every year as soon as a small product refresh is introduced. I pitty the fool that does!

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
Gosh, this is a good question. Growing up, I got in my listening where I could. I have to admit, most of my listening was testosterone driven and geared toward SPL. I can't say that breaking out the 45's or 8 tracks brings back any type of nostalgia because CD's were always available in my youth.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?
In my case, I'm not going to waste my time or money on any equipment that I do not perceive as a major upgrade.

6. Do you ?
Maybe…haha
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post #3 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Never say never...

I have not answered this yet, but I was hoping my answer was shared by others, so I want to wait a while to see how this pans out.

How are the SI's going?
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post #4 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Never say never...

I'll elaborate my post when I get off the road.

Cool. Be safe!
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post #5 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

I have not answered this yet, but I was hoping my answer was shared by others, so I want to wait a while to see how this pans out.
I voted that "The Chase Continues."

You know the game better than I Robert...

Maybe, I will find that holy grail.

Maybe my holy grail isn't your holy grail.

Then again, my holy grail today may need an upgrade tomorrow? Gosh, maybe I should have voted that there is no holy grail...lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

How are the SI's going?

Should be getting all of my D4 subs swapped out sometime this week for the D2's I originally ordered. Hoping to start my build later this month. Hopefully this will put me within arms length of the subwoofer holy grail I am after...

As much as i would like to keep my LMS-U's, I have to move on for the time being.
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post #6 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 06:08 AM
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I feel like I've found the speakers that are my holy grail, and I soon hope to have the subs to match. However, I don't think I'll find my own holy grail unless my room is on a suspended floor (I just love that tactile sensation). However, the trade-offs are too many so I think I'll always be on a concrete floor.

The trade-offs include:

1. Having to move. There is no room in our current house that could be the HT room except for where it currently is, in the basement.

2. Annoying the family. In my current room I can crank to my hearts content until 3:00 in the morning or whenever I get tired because it doesn't bother my wife or kids. If we were in a different house that had the capability to have the HT room on a suspended floor I'm willing to bet I wouldn't be able to get away with that anymore.

4. Annoying the neighbors. I'm guessing that having the HT room out of the basement causes the bass to be heard from the neighbors much more easily.


Now, I have seen people build a suspended floor in their basement, but my ceiling is 7'8" already so that idea is out.

So, other than not having a suspended floor I'm extremely happy with my setup.


As far as your questions about upgrading - one thing I hate to upgrade are receivers and components. I've been using the same old Blu-ray player for years. It takes forever for a disk to load, but hey it still works so I keep putting off buying a new one. Plus the longer I wait the better/cheaper the new player will be. I don't get into all the fancy schmancy stuff with receivers either.
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post #7 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 06:15 AM
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Cool thread Robert! I'm definitely part of the perpetual search for the Holy Grail camp. biggrin.gif

I'm the same age as Austin but had a very early start due to influences from my dad and uncles. I began playing with vintage audio equipment including 45's, 33's and even a few 8 tracks. I'm hugely into technology and the latest advancements, but there is something cool and unique about vintage audio equipment and formats. I find myself wanting to get back into vinyl one of these days.

As for your questions:
1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
I keep the old but only the classic and sentimental stuff to me. I do find myself not using much anymore though.

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
Yes. As stated above, I'm typically always chasing better equipment and doing so requires funding from old gear unfortunately.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
I would say typically no, but after purchasing a receiver recently just for Audyssey XT32 and being disappointed with it, I guess you could add me to this camp.

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
Yes and no. 'Good' is a relative term. The uber-power amps of the 70s and 80s were MONSTERS of their day and built like tanks to last forever. True 'American Iron' like Dynaco, Macs, Hafler, Carver, etc. Today's amps (with efficiency developments) are far more powerful, lighter, and less expensive. How long will they last though? TBD. So many of today's items are made outside the US (third world components, etc) these days, which is a shame both for our economy and the quality of our products.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?

In my situation I find myself wanting to try new things just to see how they differ. Some may not perceive one or the other as subjectively 'better' in every case with my decisions, but in my case I love experimenting. There is always a compromise with every decision made IMO.
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post #8 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 06:56 AM
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1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? I usually sell off the older gear.
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new? I discard which ever sounds worse to me placebo or not.
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? Tried it, no increase in performance, actually lost dynamic clarity, go figure.
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today? I feel the opposite.
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? There is a level that is just lateral movements.
6. Do you ?

I have tried newer HD audio and features from entry level to high end. I still enjoy my older basic optical cable 5.1 processor and amp combo over everything else I have tried. It all has to do with how reference levels sound in my room. The new HD audio pio elite I had was great but it could never get that dynamic feel I am used to. I still like the older high end optical stuff best as it works all the time and just gives me that feel I am looking for. The prices are now cheaper than the new stuff(AVR's and entry pre/pro's) so it is a no brainer for me. If I did not tweak myself I would probably get auto EQ and never know there was a difference.
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post #9 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 07:23 AM
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1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
If it's exceptional, of course. My compression drivers and my amps are not going anywhere

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
If I can sell it on eBay, sure. If it'll make one of my friends happy to give it to them, definitely.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
I never trade up for meaningless features - last time I fell for that was the 7.2 designation. For some weird reason I thought the .2 meant independent subwoofer controls for timing and EQ. Felt like a fool, and I hate feeling like a fool.

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
Technology has come a long way. In some categories, older stuff cannot compete - especially at the 'value' end of the spectrum. In 2012, decent speakers are often on sale for under $100/pair. Somewhere in-between you find the timeless gems, so it goes both ways. Quad speakers are the ultimate example of 'timeless tech', as are Klipschorns.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?
Quite often that is the case. That's why people focus on speakers - the differences are the most pronounced. The other side of the coin is amplification and cabling - that's almost always a losing proposition unless the upgrade is for more power.

6. Do you find that sometimes everything is perfect and you can't explain why?
The reason I have experienced the 'holy grail' of sound and yet still pursue it is because the experience is such a fleeting thing. What is perfect sound? Becoming totally lost in the music... transported to another dimension. The first time it happened to me I was in fourth grade listening to Beethoven through a 'nice' stereo. Somehow the music disappeared, putting me in a daydream-like meditative state. Whenever music makes me feel that way - and especially when it provokes goosebumps - I know that's the holy grail' i.e. nirvana. The main issue is this: it does take constant tweaking and some occasional upgrading to maintain that capability and sometimes it is totally elusive.

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post #10 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 07:41 AM
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1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? I have the old in a closet now, but the cabinets need some love. My first pair of speakers, Polk Audio SDA-2's.
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new? - No and Yes. I will keep my polks but sell my klipsch RB-75 system and replace with seos.
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? Sometimes.
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today? No and yes. So many options today, but you have to weed through the crud to find the good stuff.
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? Sometimes after the fact, it depends on my goal. I normally don't buy the latest stuff just to get the latest stuff.
6. Do you ?

I am not sure if anything will sound as good when I was younger because my ears were better, but I also didn't appreciate things then as much as I do now. Things always seem bigger and better when you're young.

My biggest issues with speakers is the tailoring. Some speakers are tailored better for specific kinds of music. My old SDA 2's sound superb with classical music and digital music and my klipsch sound excellent with rock music and movies. I can't stand classic or digital on the klipsch, I always feel I'm missing something compared to my old SDA 2's. So for me, I don't think speakers and equipment is a one size fits all deal. I do think you can have multiple 2.1 systems that excel with specific types of music. I've never thought a theater surround system was good for 2 channel music. So is their a holy grail? I don't know, I'm still looking and having fun doing it. biggrin.gif

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post #11 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?

I have the old, but it is purely because no one has bought it from me yet biggrin.gif

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?

Just as others have said, I will, and have, but nice quality stuff, like the vintage Advent loudspeaker cabs, forget it, those are solid maple! At 29 years old, I have never heard a pair play, but I know many folks that consider them to be their first "Real" system back in the day.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?

typically new features also equals new performance but not in every case. I have gone from a 2311 to the 3311 to get the networking capability, then the 3311 to the 4311 for additional channels and xt32 (which I also was not as impressed with as I had hoped)

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?

Nope! I have heard another member's LaScala's that were re-capped and fixed up a bit and they are still some of the best speakers I have heard, truly the most dynamic so far.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?

I think equipment should be broken out here to two categories, avr's/BD player/etc. and stereo components.

I will change the former to get new formats, better connectivity, and all, but when it comes to speakers I have had lateral moves and big jumps! I would say the move from the swan diva's to the JTR triple 12's was definitely a big jump, and from the JTR's to the LS6's was more lateral, but at the same time, I lack in areas now where I didn't use to, and outperform in others!

Have I traded one for another? Heck yea, but I always do so hoping that I will find something truly special, and all of the sudden it won't feel like a trade anymore!


6. Do you ?

I would have to say I've done the most here with subs. Traded the insanely cheap capability of the f-20's for more extension, then traded the giant sized sonotubes to the smaller sealed orientation with uber drivers to trim some space, and now going multiple sealed with more efficient drivers. Bottom line, it will never end, but with each time I upgrade, I find the holy grail, only to discover something else that I would like to try, and then I go out and find it again! You can have the holy grail more than once, as long as with every change in some way your experience is still the best you have ever had anywhere, and in each case, something, at least just one thing, is better than it was before. smile.gif

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post #12 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:11 PM
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1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? Nope, always on to bigger/newer things
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new? Yes, no need to hold onto the older stuff
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? Haven't done it yet but will in the future for sure
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today? No, just the good stuff today costs a lot of $$$
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? Not at all, my moves are upgraded for sure
6. Do you ?

I've heard the holy grail 14x seeing Roger Waters perform The Wall. Front row center seats for 5 of the shows has me addicted to finding crystal clear, smooth sound with intense bass. Quick clip of the raleigh venue shows everything shaking from the volume. It was insanely loud and I was in pure heaven!!
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post #13 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Never say never...

I'll elaborate my post when I get off the road.

Update:

Awesome story Robert. I'm 29 years old, so don't have near the history, time, money, experience (etc..) as you do in the hobby, but I can say with all honesty that I love it with a similar passion.

I'm going to answer each of your questions individually.

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
I already feel like a hoarder, so I try to get rid of the old once I find something that I feel is a better performer.

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
I just don't have the room to keep all of my gear.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
NO! While AVR's and other electronics are evolving at a furious pace, I refuse to purchase new gear every year as soon as a small product refresh is introduced. I pitty the fool that does!

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
Gosh, this is a good question. Growing up, I got in my listening where I could. I have to admit, most of my listening was testosterone driven and geared toward SPL. I can't say that breaking out the 45's or 8 tracks brings back any type of nostalgia because CD's were always available in my youth.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?
In my case, I'm not going to waste my time or money on any equipment that I do not perceive as a major upgrade.

6. Do you ?
Maybe…haha



When I first read this this morning, I had a eureka moment. I guess I basically have been exposed to most of the recording media of the past 100 years. It is just normal for me to put on any source material like second nature. I sometimes forget some of us have only basically been exposed to cd, dvd, and newer. I guess it is the starting point that is different for most of us although the road is the same.

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #14 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:22 PM
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I voted 'no' but I would like to add that I think I will have it .... and as such.... "the chase continues!!!" for me anyway. wink.gif

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
Old what? I sure like my speakers and most of my gear but some of it needs to be updated.
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
Not necessarily. I don't upgrade because something is new. I upgrade when something is good and better than what I currently own. I rarely "upgrade" laterally.
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
I upgraded my AVR a few years ago so I had a proper HDMI capable one. The older one was just component so in that case, yes but it was an obvious upgrade move. However I will not upgrade for XT32 or 3D or something useless to me.
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
That depends.
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?
I never "upgrade" laterally so, no. Usually when I upgrade something it is a huge and very noticable change.
6. Do you ?
Do I what?

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post #15 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? Nope, always on to bigger/newer things
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new? Yes, no need to hold onto the older stuff
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? Haven't done it yet but will in the future for sure
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today? No, just the good stuff today costs a lot of $$$
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? Not at all, my moves are upgraded for sure
6. Do you ?

I've heard the holy grail 14x seeing Roger Waters perform The Wall. Front row center seats for 5 of the shows has me addicted to finding crystal clear, smooth sound with intense bass. Quick clip of the raleigh venue shows everything shaking from the volume. It was insanely loud and I was in pure heaven!!

A man with true taste.

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #16 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I have a pair of those Advents. if you ever get out this way.

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #17 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I feel like I've found the speakers that are my holy grail, and I soon hope to have the subs to match. However, I don't think I'll find my own holy grail unless my room is on a suspended floor (I just love that tactile sensation). However, the trade-offs are too many so I think I'll always be on a concrete floor.

The trade-offs include:

1. Having to move. There is no room in our current house that could be the HT room except for where it currently is, in the basement.

2. Annoying the family. In my current room I can crank to my hearts content until 3:00 in the morning or whenever I get tired because it doesn't bother my wife or kids. If we were in a different house that had the capability to have the HT room on a suspended floor I'm willing to bet I wouldn't be able to get away with that anymore.

4. Annoying the neighbors. I'm guessing that having the HT room out of the basement causes the bass to be heard from the neighbors much more easily.


Now, I have seen people build a suspended floor in their basement, but my ceiling is 7'8" already so that idea is out.

So, other than not having a suspended floor I'm extremely happy with my setup.


As far as your questions about upgrading - one thing I hate to upgrade are receivers and components. I've been using the same old Blu-ray player for years. It takes forever for a disk to load, but hey it still works so I keep putting off buying a new one. Plus the longer I wait the better/cheaper the new player will be. I don't get into all the fancy schmancy stuff with receivers either.

What neighbors? I live across the street from a funeral home. biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
If it's exceptional, of course. My compression drivers and my amps are not going anywhere

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
If I can sell it on eBay, sure. If it'll make one of my friends happy to give it to them, definitely.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
I never trade up for meaningless features - last time I fell for that was the 7.2 designation. For some weird reason I thought the .2 meant independent subwoofer controls for timing and EQ. Felt like a fool, and I hate feeling like a fool.

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
Technology has come a long way. In some categories, older stuff cannot compete - especially at the 'value' end of the spectrum. In 2012, decent speakers are often on sale for under $100/pair. Somewhere in-between you find the timeless gems, so it goes both ways. Quad speakers are the ultimate example of 'timeless tech', as are Klipschorns.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?
Quite often that is the case. That's why people focus on speakers - the differences are the most pronounced. The other side of the coin is amplification and cabling - that's almost always a losing proposition unless the upgrade is for more power.

6. Do you find that sometimes everything is perfect and you can't explain why?
The reason I have experienced the 'holy grail' of sound and yet still pursue it is because the experience is such a fleeting thing. What is perfect sound? Becoming totally lost in the music... transported to another dimension. The first time it happened to me I was in fourth grade listening to Beethoven through a 'nice' stereo. Somehow the music disappeared, putting me in a daydream-like meditative state. Whenever music makes me feel that way - and especially when it provokes goosebumps - I know that's the holy grail' i.e. nirvana. The main issue is this: it does take constant tweaking and some occasional upgrading to maintain that capability and sometimes it is totally elusive.



Beethoven you say. Well, that is something I happen to- or should I say include as A hobby in itself. I have so much Beethoven music and memorabilia and books that it is hard to actually quantify the numbers. HE truly was the best!!!

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #19 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? I have the old in a closet now, but the cabinets need some love. My first pair of speakers, Polk Audio SDA-2's.
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new? - No and Yes. I will keep my polks but sell my klipsch RB-75 system and replace with seos.
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? Sometimes.
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today? No and yes. So many options today, but you have to weed through the crud to find the good stuff.
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? Sometimes after the fact, it depends on my goal. I normally don't buy the latest stuff just to get the latest stuff.
6. Do you ?

I am not sure if anything will sound as good when I was younger because my ears were better, but I also didn't appreciate things then as much as I do now. Things always seem bigger and better when you're young.

My biggest issues with speakers is the tailoring. Some speakers are tailored better for specific kinds of music. My old SDA 2's sound superb with classical music and digital music and my klipsch sound excellent with rock music and movies. I can't stand classic or digital on the klipsch, I always feel I'm missing something compared to my old SDA 2's. So for me, I don't think speakers and equipment is a one size fits all deal. I do think you can have multiple 2.1 systems that excel with specific types of music. I've never thought a theater surround system was good for 2 channel music. So is their a holy grail? I don't know, I'm still looking and having fun doing it. biggrin.gif

Polk A10 is my Polk model. I know what you mean.
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post #20 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

A man with true taste.

Keep cranking,

Robert

Ha, don't get me started on the shows. I swear I could write a book on the experiences. Although each show was the same since he performed The Wall, every night was a different feeling. Got Roger's autograph 6x, met most of the band, got a few cool pics with the guys as well as my wife with the lead guitar player. It was an awesome experience. I've got a lot of various clips from the concerts that are really cool, what an amazing show it was.

Honestly, the entire reason I am upgrading my system is in anticipation of the DVD coming out of the concert. Can't wait!!!!
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post #21 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Ha, don't get me started on the shows. I swear I could write a book on the experiences. Although each show was the same since he performed The Wall, every night was a different feeling. Got Roger's autograph 6x, met most of the band, got a few cool pics with the guys as well as my wife with the lead guitar player. It was an awesome experience. I've got a lot of various clips from the concerts that are really cool, what an amazing show it was.

Honestly, the entire reason I am upgrading my system is in anticipation of the DVD coming out of the concert. Can't wait!!!!

I saw PULSE in 96 I think. I know what you mean. The laser light show was to die for. I am currently on the Rush bandwagon. Just saw them in Houston and Atlanta.
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Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post



I saw PULSE in 96 I think. I know what you mean. The laser light show was to die for. I am currently on the Rush bandwagon. Just saw them in Houston and Atlanta.

Pulse was 1994, saw them 6x that go around. Roger performing The Wall is in a different league. I might even head to Europe in Sept to see him do the Wall a few more times. It's that incredible of a show. I'll upload a few other clips I have later.
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post #23 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Pulse was 1994, saw them 6x that go around. Roger performing The Wall is in a different league. I might even head to Europe in Sept to see him do the Wall a few more times. It's that incredible of a show. I'll upload a few other clips I have later.


I was trying to see The Wall when it was in Florida last year, but things did not work out. I take my kids and wife, so school days are a problem and driving has to be done to get to and fro so it is a lot of hassel if the dates are not available with the days off.

Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #24 of 139 Old 01-14-2013, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Pulse was 1994, saw them 6x that go around. Roger performing The Wall is in a different league. I might even head to Europe in Sept to see him do the Wall a few more times. It's that incredible of a show. I'll upload a few other clips I have later.

I just received the new Rush 2112 DVD with the comic book. My kids love it-they are 8 and 10.
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post #25 of 139 Old 01-15-2013, 04:42 AM
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Who found the holy grail?!?!

Whoever you are, I envy you. Also, be sure to avoid auditioning other setups…

Hang on, hummmm… Is this more of a philosophical question?

Holy Grail meaning one's personal satisfaction... or Holy Grail meaning eternal youth?
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It's right here... wink.gif

xploded.jpg

Cannot wait for April 13, although I am a bit sad I can't (easily) move my speakers so I withdrew them from the GTG. Each one weighs over 200lbs. As for auditioning other systems - as soon as you are done doing whatever it is you are going to do, I want to audition YOUR system.
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Who found the holy grail?!?!

Whoever you are, I envy you. Also, be sure to avoid auditioning other setups…

Hang on, hummmm… Is this more of a philosophical question?

Holy Grail meaning one's personal satisfaction... or Holy Grail meaning eternal youth?

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #27 of 139 Old 01-15-2013, 07:37 AM
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1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same? It depends on what it is, a lot of the time I downgrade my main system to my secondary system upstairs. I then sell what is in the second system.

2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new? It depends on what it is, and what it's worth on the used market. Generally yes.

3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)? Never, (I have had a 3d projector for a year now and have yet to replace my 4 yr old onkyo 805)

4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today? It depends on the product, I think amplifiers and processors have improved by leaps and bounds especially in the last 5-6 years. Subwoofers too, but speakers in general have been a slow curve.

5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another? There comes a point where that might be the case, it certainly is not for me right now though.
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post #28 of 139 Old 01-15-2013, 07:55 AM
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Since I was so impressed with the sound at the Roger Waters concert I contact Clair Brothers Audio who supplied the equipment, speakers, amps, etc for the concert. They replied stating they are considering getting into the high end HT segment and a system, 7.1, would run about $60,000!!!

I'm all for searching for the holy grail of HT but not for 60K. That would have zero WAF.

Guess that's why the DIY section is so popular...
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post #29 of 139 Old 01-15-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post


I have a pair of those Advents. if you ever get out this way.

Keep cranking,

Robert

What do you want me to refinish and build some out for you? I could do that. I plan on sanding mine down and refinishing them with a new grill cover and some horns in there. Should be pretty epic. They will more than likely go to the rear for back surrounds unless I find that they will work better elsewhere in the house smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Since I was so impressed with the sound at the Roger Waters concert I contact Clair Brothers Audio who supplied the equipment, speakers, amps, etc for the concert. They replied stating they are considering getting into the high end HT segment and a system, 7.1, would run about $60,000!!!

I'm all for searching for the holy grail of HT but not for 60K. That would have zero WAF.

Guess that's why the DIY section is so popular...

I am with you on that clip, and that is a good song to have as a reference. I have heard Steve Vai well mastered many times and when I get to that point that I have heard at some of his shows, I will be happy.

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post #30 of 139 Old 01-15-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

1. Do you keep the old and enjoy it just the same?
2. Do you discard the old in favor of the new?
3. Do you trade up just to get new features with no real increase in performance (just features)?
4. Do you feel that the old stuff is not as good as the products offered today?
5. Do you feel that most equipment upgrades are just not upgrades at all but just trading one for another?

1) Sometimes- depends
2) Sometimes- depends
3) Yes but let me explain. I had a Marantz receiver that was really nice, 6x110W. I upgraded to a newer one that is probably the same sound quality. However, I also got HDMI which is huge. That means I could get DTS-HD Master Audio and the other high defenition lossless codecs. I also got Audessey (although the next model year they came out with XT32) which was a huge step up from manual calibration.
4) Absolutely. You can measure the frequency response of old "good" speakers and they just don't cut it compared to the modern stuff. I have listened to them too. I listened to some records in my youth and never was impressed with them.

To elaborate: A lot of the older stuff has very pleasing distortion. A clean, accurate sound is what I prefer, even if it last a little bit of the "warmth" of vintage gear. Also, older recordings severely lacked bass, and older speakers typically weren't producing copious amounts of bass.

5) No. As measuring become more precise, as technology evolves, the potential for improvement grows.

I am 31 years old, and I am an engineer. I think the answers you get to these questions will depend on a few different factors but the biggest will be age. One of my best audio experiences was listening to some overnight sensations with my Grandma powered by a Vintage Pioneer "solid state" amp/tuner.
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