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post #31 of 47 Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

Wasn't there a discussion on this before? when everyone was giving the LMS-U praise as the god driver. (not meaning to be rude)

I'm pretty sure last time Bosso chimed in saying how, when the systems are EQ'd to the same point, there should be no "SQ" difference, assuming the drivers have at least relatively close distortion characteristics.
And also that 99% of what we hear is SPL related.

Something along those lines.... I don't remember.

It just seems that everyone saying it "sounds" better could just be the flat response.... the LMS should not have ANY advantage over say.... 2 or 3 Daytons or SI's.

I have 4 LMS's and 8 Passives in my system. I have used just one cabinet and then added the second. You cannot even really tell the difference. All I can say is I would put those 4 drivers against any 4 other drivers in the same configuation any day. Now, I do not think I would mind putting them against 8 of most other drivers also and even the 12 -given the 3-1 ratio mentioned. However, as you add that many drivers to a room, you also decrease the total air space and you also get the efficiency numbers of multiples. I am hoping to get to listen to one of the multiple SI setups to see how they rock. I have always wanted to go with 16 drivers in an IB and my friend currently is in the process- maybe one day. I have putthe LMS's through the wringer and they have sparkled . I am very impressed with the performance and they still make me smile when my shirt and pants shudder during the bass transients.


Keep cranking,

Robert
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post #32 of 47 Old 01-17-2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

And maximize it you did tongue.gif
Thanks mang! biggrin.gif

We really have to get together and do this comparison and do it right. I can even bring over a single LMS. We just gotta find a date that's good for all of us. lol

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I agree 100%. Sometimes I forget that its a factor. Don't get me wrong, she says things, I just usually do stuff first and then I'm like, " well I'm not gonna get rid of it". Anyone want to start the benefit fund for my divorce attorney??
My wife's cool with the whole thing. Matter of fact a few weeks ago I spent a few nights tweaking some stuff. Well the next day i get home from work and she's walking around saying, "IRENE, F'n IRENE!!"
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post #33 of 47 Old 01-17-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Thanks mang:D!

We really have to get together and do this comparison and do it right. I can even bring over a single LMS. We just gotta find a date that's good for all of us. lol
I wanna go!
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My wife's cool with the whole thing. Matter of fact a few weeks ago I spent a few nights tweaking some stuff. Well the next day i get home from work and she's walking around saying, "IRENE, F'n IRENE!!"
Lol!

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post #34 of 47 Old 01-17-2013, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Thanks mang! biggrin.gif

We really have to get together and do this comparison and do it right. I can even bring over a single LMS. We just gotta find a date that's good for all of us. lol
My wife's cool with the whole thing. Matter of fact a few weeks ago I spent a few nights tweaking some stuff. Well the next day i get home from work and she's walking around saying, "IRENE, F'n IRENE!!"


Nice. My is actually pretty cool about it too. She doesn't enjoy it, but she knows that I do, so she doesn't say much. I also handle all of our finances too, so she has no idea how much I spend to make a room sound great. Every once in a while, she will be sitting with me when I place and order or something ( like the sony vw1000) and go,"how much, ur a nut job..I can't believe you spend that much $$ on this stuff". It helps that she has most of what she wants too. I buy her new cars before mine, etc. An extra couple hundo to shop every once in a while and she stays happy.
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post #35 of 47 Old 01-18-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Nice. My is actually pretty cool about it too. She doesn't enjoy it, but she knows that I do, so she doesn't say much. I also handle all of our finances too, so she has no idea how much I spend to make a room sound great. Every once in a while, she will be sitting with me when I place and order or something ( like the sony vw1000) and go,"how much, ur a nut job..I can't believe you spend that much $$ on this stuff". It helps that she has most of what she wants too. I buy her new cars before mine, etc. An extra couple hundo to shop every once in a while and she stays happy.

But what are us poor folks supposed to do? haha.

My wife handles the finances as well....

Sigh....one day....

On a more serious note, I spoil my wife, and her dad has a rocking system and I know she doesnt have a problem with it as long as I am not buying and selling constantly to make small improvements.....which I wont do with the electronics part(amps, processor, etc.)

I am really curious about seeing some measurements comparing multiples of the SI and Dayton to say one or two LMS. See what gives you the best performance for the same amount of money....

I assume too that the distortion would be pretty close with multiple SI or Dayton since they wont be driven as hard too.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

Steam: madbrayniak

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post #36 of 47 Old 01-18-2013, 06:06 PM
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for poor folks is best to not have a wife
i get to do whatever i want :P
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post #37 of 47 Old 01-18-2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

But what are us poor folks supposed to do? haha.

My wife handles the finances as well....

Sigh....one day....

On a more serious note, I spoil my wife, and her dad has a rocking system and I know she doesnt have a problem with it as long as I am not buying and selling constantly to make small improvements.....which I wont do with the electronics part(amps, processor, etc.)

I am really curious about seeing some measurements comparing multiples of the SI and Dayton to say one or two LMS. See what gives you the best performance for the same amount of money....

I assume too that the distortion would be pretty close with multiple SI or Dayton since they wont be driven as hard too.

I would be willing to bet that four of eaither the Dayton or SI would beat up on one LMS a little bit. I like your thoughts on this. When not space limited, the fair comparison is dollar for dollar. Four Si 18s are less than one LMS, and four Daytons are just a hair more. In reality, you would need more power to run the 4 subs full out as compared to the LMS, but the cost could still be the same. I think Gorilla and Popalock could both chime in about 4 Datyons vs 1 LMS from experience.
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post #38 of 47 Old 01-18-2013, 11:39 PM
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thanks to ricci, we know: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&col=3&type=0&sort=desc&mfr=-1

at 20hz (a point where they are both excursion limited), the ultra makes almost exactly 6db more spl than the dayton, so 2 daytons and 1 ultra are roughly the same.

6db also happens to be twice the excursion (holding sd constant), so the ultra has twice the excursion of the dayton.

two of the daytons would also be 3db more sensitive in 8 cubic feet total vs. 4 for the ultra, which means the daytons would require 1/2 the power for the same spl as the single ultra.

the primary advantage of the ultra is the compactness with which you can get lots of spl if you have the amp.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #39 of 47 Old 01-19-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post


It just seems that everyone saying it "sounds" better could just be the flat response.... the LMS should not have ANY advantage over say.... 2 or 3 Daytons or SI's.

Yes, and no.

Anytime you spread the load, so to speak out over multiple drivers at the same SPL you reduce THD. If you move each driver 3 mm instead of 15 you will typically get less THD (ala line array). However, the LMS is designed for large amounts of excursion while still staying as linear as possible and as a result keeps THD more in check than most other drivers. Pick your poison, several inexpensive drivers and the associated space/volume they take up or one LMS. You still need to displace air and that takes moving the cone(s) and the related power.

You also have the costs associated with multiple enclosures. If you have the space I wouldn't hesitate to use multiples of the Dayton 18s. If not, go with the LMS.

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post #40 of 47 Old 01-19-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I would be willing to bet that four of eaither the Dayton or SI would beat up on one LMS a little bit. I like your thoughts on this. When not space limited, the fair comparison is dollar for dollar. Four Si 18s are less than one LMS, and four Daytons are just a hair more. In reality, you would need more power to run the 4 subs full out as compared to the LMS, but the cost could still be the same. I think Gorilla and Popalock could both chime in about 4 Datyons vs 1 LMS from experience.

Given the available space, I believe the comparison is more than fair. Your power requirement is off, though: four SIs or Daytons in a much larger volume than the one LMS would take roughly one quarter the power, total, to do the same output. And likely still less than one LMS to hit their limits at LF. Roughly; others have mentioned similar. The LMS is built so you can pay a lot of dollars and use a lot of power to get a small box to put out lots of low bass. Small, low, and loud at the expense of dollars and watts.

The other advantage of multiples, of course, is more favorable room mode management. You can spread them around the room, you can set up arrays; it all mostly helps bass evenness.
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post #41 of 47 Old 01-19-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Northernmax View Post

I am located in Ontario, Canada so shipping will be a factor in my decisions. Have also looked into Funk Audio.

So have you considered their new TSAD18v1 driver? That looks to be at least competitive with your stated alternatives.
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post #42 of 47 Old 01-19-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tlag View Post

Given the available space, I believe the comparison is more than fair. Your power requirement is off, though: four SIs or Daytons in a much larger volume than the one LMS would take roughly one quarter the power, total, to do the same output. And likely still less than one LMS to hit their limits at LF. Roughly; others have mentioned similar. The LMS is built so you can pay a lot of dollars and use a lot of power to get a small box to put out lots of low bass. Small, low, and loud at the expense of dollars and watts.

The other advantage of multiples, of course, is more favorable room mode management. You can spread them around the room, you can set up arrays; it all mostly helps bass evenness.

Absolutely, my comment about power above was to run them full out in a smaller enclosure. I have about 1250w going to each of mine in 3.75 cubes or so. It seems like the perfect amount of power in my experience. You are certainly correct though, you could put the dayton/si in larger enclosure and not need much power at all relatively.
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post #43 of 47 Old 01-21-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I have about 1250w going to each of mine in 3.75 cubes or so. It seems like the perfect amount of power in my experience.

Yep; just about one LMS's worth. smile.gif Theoretically, I have 6kW total going to the mediumish dual-opposed (so 3kW each,) and 4kW to the smallish single. All from 1RU. smile.gif In practice, unfortunately, the breaker routinely trips...
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post #44 of 47 Old 01-21-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Good info,

What about the new "Phallus" driver, how would it compare to the original drivers?
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post #45 of 47 Old 01-22-2013, 12:20 AM
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On the top level you have the LMS . . . . and then on the lower levels you have all the others.
Here's a suggestion try 2 of the B&C 21s on the front baffle in a sealed 24"w x 48"H x 16" D. That's approx. 9cuft. and only 1 4x8 sheet of plywood or MDF.
In his subwoofer database, Ricci rates the B&C 21 as a powerful driver with a neo magnet and half the weight of an LMS.
There are 2 other useable 21s, the RCF and the "18". Both very similar to the B&C 21S but a little less expensive
You can find comparative literature on USSPEAKERS.com.
I see they now have a BEYMA 21inch added to their stock of behemoths.
.
`
That's a 24"x48"x16" box from one sheet of plywood. There are 2 RCF LF21N451s on the front baffle.
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post #46 of 47 Old 01-22-2013, 11:39 AM
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Nice! I like the looks of that bad boy. I love my LMSs, but I would be open to having some 21s around. They look impressive!

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post #47 of 47 Old 01-22-2013, 01:02 PM
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Four ported 21's would be the way to go in a 20x31 room, if you can withstand discarding a touch of the infrasonics.
For small boxes with loud infrasonics, the correct answer is the 5400, however at a 4:1 return value, enter only if you are rich, as you will need as least two of them (or more) redface.gif
If you don't like ported then the middle ground is the HO 18, not as loud as the ported 21's but closer to the deep-down performance of the 5400's at 1/4 the cost.

Relative to the performance of the subs you have now, none of those options are going to disappoint.
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