First DIY - Would this sub cabinet work OK? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Those FMOD's seem like they would work, but I would defer to the more knowedgeable folks here smile.gif Another option would be to use something like a minidsp, but that will cost more $$.

REW and the calibrated mic will really help. I suspect with a pair of these bad boys, you may not need the Legend or the Empire anymore smile.gif But that is the fun in being able to go DIY and measure your room and response.

Seems like a cool project, let us know how things progress.

Yeah, I looked into the minidsp... cool product. Costs at least $100 more than the FMOD though. I plan to move my BFD 1124 to the Daytons so if after running some sweeps in REW, it looks like some EQ on the Epiks would be beneficial, I might invest in one though. XT32 by itself does a good with just the Epiks so if I still get a good response from them after adding the Dayton's, I'd prefer to save $100 and just go with the HPF functionality of the FMOD if it'll do the trick.

BTW, Just got my shipping confirmation from PE for the Daytons. biggrin.gif
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post #32 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 12:08 PM
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I don't have links for you, but the feedback on the FMOD I've seen in the past is not so great, and Bill knows what he's talking about. On the flip-side a MiniDSP would do so much more for you, the value it will add to your sub does far beyond the price difference. Without DSP, your sub is dependent on your room's response - you are counting on 'getting lucky'. With DSP, you can optimize placement and then EQ to flat - much better, much more flexible.
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Yeah, I looked into the minidsp... cool product. Costs at least $100 more than the FMOD though. I plan to move my BFD 1124 to the Daytons so if after running some sweeps in REW, it looks like some EQ on the Epiks would be beneficial, I might invest in one though. XT32 by itself does a good with just the Epiks so if I still get a good response from them after adding the Dayton's, I'd prefer to save $100 and just go with the HPF functionality of the FMOD if it'll do the trick.

BTW, Just got my shipping confirmation from PE for the Daytons. biggrin.gif

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post #33 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have links for you, but the feedback on the FMOD I've seen in the past is not so great, and Bill knows what he's talking about. On the flip-side a MiniDSP would do so much more for you, the value it will add to your sub does far beyond the price difference. Without DSP, your sub is dependent on your room's response - you are counting on 'getting lucky'. With DSP, you can optimize placement and then EQ to flat - much better, much more flexible.

I posted my response before seeing Bill's reply. I've got to be honest and admit I need to do some reading up on the electrical aspects of speakers as I don't fully understand what Bill's response meant but I will trust it and scratch the FMOD off my list - So, thanks Bill. I'd have probably ending up buying a minidsp down the road to play with regardless so might as well skip the interim solution anyways.

Is the consensus that a HPF would likely be a good idea on at least the Legend (and perhaps Empire too)? BTW, from my understanding, their amps have 20Hz HPFs already.
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post #34 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by benunc View Post

I posted my response before seeing Bill's reply. I've got to be honest and admit I need to do some reading up on the electrical aspects of speakers as I don't fully understand what Bill's response meant but I will trust it and scratch the FMOD off my list - So, thanks Bill. I'd have probably ending up buying a minidsp down the road to play with regardless so might as well skip the interim solution anyways.

Is the consensus that a HPF would likely be a good idea on at least the Legend (and perhaps Empire too)? BTW, from my understanding, their amps have 20Hz HPFs already.

I did not know the Epik products had 20hz HPF's.

Before you commit to the minidsp, I would recommend building the DIY subs, measuring them before Audyssey and the other subs in the mix. Then run Audyssey with the DIY subs only and measure. Then add in the other subs, re-run Audyssey, and then measure. Should give you a good idea of how things are playing... If you are having a hard time getting everything to play nice then the minidsp will give you more flexibility. I suspect that the minidsp option will be the best to mix and match these subs, but you can always try first and see what happens and how you like it.
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post #35 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I did not know the Epik products had 20hz HPF's.

Before you commit to the minidsp, I would recommend building the DIY subs, measuring them before Audyssey and the other subs in the mix. Then run Audyssey with the DIY subs only and measure. Then add in the other subs, re-run Audyssey, and then measure. Should give you a good idea of how things are playing... If you are having a hard time getting everything to play nice then the minidsp will give you more flexibility. I suspect that the minidsp option will be the best to mix and match these subs, but you can always try first and see what happens and how you like it.

Well someone on the Epik thread claimed Chad told him they have a 20Hz hpf; not sure it's true but mine do roll off pretty steep at 20Hz.

I agree about trying the subs together before buying a minidsp....hopefully I'll get lucky and get some nice graphs without it...otherwise, sounds like that's the way to go.
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post #36 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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So Erich thinks his flat pack will actually be done next week.

What do you all think - would it be worth me holding off another week or two and maybe paying $100 more for his packs? Or am I OK saving some money and getting started will the build a little sooner with the PE packs?
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post #37 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 06:06 PM
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I would wait personally. Those PE boxes don't look near as nice as I bet Erich's will be.

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post #38 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 06:18 PM
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post #39 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benunc View Post

So Erich thinks his flat pack will actually be done next week.

What do you all think - would it be worth me holding off another week or two and maybe paying $100 more for his packs? Or am I OK saving some money and getting started will the build a little sooner with the PE packs?

If Erich's flat packs already have the double baffle pre-cut for your driver, then I would wait. I think Erich's flat packs are a cut above the PE one's and are probably worth waiting a week and the money.
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post #40 of 59 Old 01-16-2013, 06:25 PM
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I would wait personally. Those PE boxes don't look near as nice as I bet Erich's will be.

X4. Double baffle, far better bracing, and proper sizing for the driver. cool.gif
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post #41 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll hold off for Erich's packs.

Looks like the drivers are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. smile.gif


Yet another question - What's the minimum/recommended # of clamps I need to use to get one of these boxes together?

Anyone have experience with something like these from Harbor Freight?
http://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch-bar-clamp-96213.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-bar-clamp-96207.html

They're about 1/2 the price of the next cheapest ones (these Bessey's) I can find that look decent based on reviews.
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post #42 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benunc View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I'll hold off for Erich's packs.

Looks like the drivers are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. smile.gif


Yet another question - What's the minimum/recommended # of clamps I need to use to get one of these boxes together?

Anyone have experience with something like these from Harbor Freight?
http://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch-bar-clamp-96213.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-bar-clamp-96207.html

They're about 1/2 the price of the next cheapest ones (these Bessey's) I can find that look decent based on reviews.

Pipe style clamps are better.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-pipe-clamp-3813.html

You can get HD to cut and thread a 10' pipe into 3 x 3'4" pieces for 1/2" or 2 x 5' for 3/4 for free and the 10' lengths of pipe are much cheaper.

I use the Bessey 1/2" and 3/4" pipe clamps but that's more of an investment. I have a couple of old HF or Northern bar clamps like you listed and they work but cannot clamp with much pressure as they tend to bend.

Minimum # I would say 6 and you will have to assemble in steps. You need enough clamps to build at least build 1 tri-corner at the beginning with 2 clamps per panel.

Of course some people have assembled the flat packs with glue and masking tape.

Get some of the ribbed brad nails and a counter sink deal 'cause the boards will slide all over the place without a nail or 3.
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post #43 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 08:26 AM
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I used 6 bar clamps with my build and that was the minimum I would recommend. I would have liked to have had a couple more and at Menards they have 24" bar clamps for $5.99 apiece if you have one near you.

I used PL Premium since it expands nicely (buy some cheap work gloves) and once I assembled the panels together, I would hit them with my finish nailer (just a couple of 2" finish nails in each panel) and then clamped it. It really went smoothly and then I just used drywall spackle to cover the nail holes. You have plenty of work time with PL Premium so take your time and get everything lined up nicely.
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post #44 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll check out those pipe clamps at HF. After buying pipe, seems like the cost won't be much less than the $10 36" bessey though.

Could something like this be useful? Seems like it would function like using masking tape but provide much more clamping force... http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-band-clamp-66220.html

Think I'll swing by the flea market this weekend too and see if I can find anything used/cheap.
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post #45 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benunc View Post

I'll check out those pipe clamps at HF. After buying pipe, seems like the cost won't be much less than the $10 36" bessey though.

Could something like this be useful? Seems like it would function like using masking tape but provide much more clamping force... http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-band-clamp-66220.html

Think I'll swing by the flea market this weekend too and see if I can find anything used/cheap.

The ratchet clamp looks cool and may work really well with the flat pack. I have no experience with it though.

The besy bar clamps are going to bend just like the HF bar clamps if you are clamping a large piece. Pipe is more rigid. You could get the HF bar clamps for <24" runs and a pair of pipe clamps for up to 36" clamping.

Also had another thought: since the flat packs are dado cut you don't need the brad nails. cool.gif
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post #46 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 09:52 AM
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i used ratchet clamps and some quick release clamps when i put together my Overnight Sensations Flatpack. worked fine, with the dadoes you dont need to go insane with clamp tightness - used Tightbond no issues. Should be the same for the sub boxes. I plan on doing the same thing, and ill prob go over the inner seams with PL just to make sure but its prob not needed
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post #47 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 09:56 AM
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i used ratchet clamps and some quick release clamps when i put together my Overnight Sensations Flatpack. worked fine, with the dadoes you dont need to go insane with clamp tightness - used Tightbond no issues. Should be the same for the sub boxes. I plan on doing the same thing, and ill prob go over the inner seams with PL just to make sure but its prob not needed

I'd agree here. I think Erich mentioned some have even used just tape to hold the panels together while drying with his kits. With the rabbet grooves for the panels and dado for the bracing, it will pretty much hold itself in place so you won't need to get too hardcore with the clamping.
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post #48 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 11:04 AM
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These 31 band eq's have a adjustable low cut filter down to 10hz. It was on sale, but oos now. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/321788-REG/Behringer_FBQ3102_FBQ3102_Graphic_Equalizer.html
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post #49 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dezmond View Post

These 31 band eq's have a adjustable low cut filter down to 10hz. It was on sale, but oos now. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/321788-REG/Behringer_FBQ3102_FBQ3102_Graphic_Equalizer.html
thank you very much for the pointer.
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post #50 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

i used ratchet clamps and some quick release clamps when i put together my Overnight Sensations Flatpack. worked fine, with the dadoes you dont need to go insane with clamp tightness - used Tightbond no issues. Should be the same for the sub boxes. I plan on doing the same thing, and ill prob go over the inner seams with PL just to make sure but its prob not needed

Come to think of it, I have a few ratchet band clamps laying around somewhere - they don't have the plastic corner pieces that the HF one has but I'm sure I can make/find something to use like that for cheap (or maybe get by without them). Guess I'll hold off on buying clamps until I get the boxes and see what i think I can get away with. Good to know I don't need a huge amount of clamping force.
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post #51 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 01:40 PM
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i always use a scap piece of wood between the clamp and what im clamping as the plastic/rubber part really does not help in not causeing indents and such
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post #52 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 01:41 PM
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i always use a scap piece of wood between the clamp and what im clamping as the plastic/rubber part really does not help in not causeing indents and such

+1, especially with MDF. But a good practice in general to follow.
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post #53 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 01:46 PM
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i always use a scap piece of wood between the clamp and what im clamping as the plastic/rubber part really does not help in not causeing indents and such

Speaking of 'incidents' - I dropped one of the top MDF panels from one of my new speakers last night on the ground. Dinged up corners = failure. Easier to recut and make a new one than repair that panel, heh. I guess that will become part of my scrap collection. Doh.
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post #54 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 01:50 PM
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also sure I’m not the only person who has glued the scrap wood used when clamping to the box because of glue excess seepage mad.gif
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post #55 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benunc View Post

I'll check out those pipe clamps at HF. After buying pipe, seems like the cost won't be much less than the $10 36" bessey though.

Could something like this be useful? Seems like it would function like using masking tape but provide much more clamping force... http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-band-clamp-66220.html

Think I'll swing by the flea market this weekend too and see if I can find anything used/cheap.

I have a couple of these and they work pretty good once you get them positioned. The corners do come off the straps fairly easily though so its better to position them with two people. Definitely put something in between your box and the clamps though so they don't leave marks.

Scott
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post #56 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

also sure I’m not the only person who has glued the scrap wood used when clamping to the box because of glue excess seepage mad.gif

No your not. Use Suran wrap on anything you don't want glue sticking to.

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post #57 of 59 Old 01-17-2013, 04:36 PM
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also sure I’m not the only person who has glued the scrap wood used when clamping to the box because of glue excess seepage mad.gif

Lulz. I've liquid nailed more than one thing to a project from glue overage. smile.gif

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post #58 of 59 Old 01-18-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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dary5y9u.jpg

My 2 Daytons were just delivered. Nice looking drivers.

How do I need to wire them to the ep4k to test them out? Just each channel wired pos to pos and neg to neg to one sub?

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post #59 of 59 Old 01-18-2013, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Got em working. Tried a couple sine waves - very impressive.

It was the first time I plugged the EP4000 in too - now I see why the fan mod is popular.... it was much louder than I expected. I'll be moving all of my gear to a closet in the rear of the room soon so hope I won't notice the noise once it's in there.

Here's a pic with one next to my Empire. Makes the Empire look like a baby. My wife will be thrilled. wink.gif

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