SEOS-12 Fusion Max Build (Delta-10A, DNA-350) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 86 Old 01-23-2013, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought the complete speaker kit of Tuxedocivic's SEOS design, the Fusion-10 Max (speaker kit product page, forum thread of design).
This build thread is pretty redundant to Java's, but I'll use this to document what I'm doing, any tips that may help anyone as noobish as I am, and to ask questions and check things like the crossover.

 

With few DIY skills, I'm nervous, but I'm game!

 

Why?

I've been interested in attaining the dynamics I've heard in even some mediocre commercial theaters that I wasn't getting at home. I've read Floyd Toole's and Alton Everest's books, measured impulse response in my room, calibrated my subs, measured distortion in the speakers with compression tests.

 

I maintain a list of High SPL Speakers (AVS thread, spreadsheet), so I'm interested in being able to listen at higher SPL than the 94 dB my speakers poop out at (and they sound harsh by that point, and maybe the receiver is overtaxed too) with low distortion.

 

Ironically, it's my wife who often turns up the volume, or asks to turn it up (yes, she's fantastic). I wince a bit on the loud scenes, and when the movie is done, I check the receiver at the back of the room, and I'm aghast at the level we were at: -8. No wonder I was wincing. We're being inflicted with mega compression and distortion! 

 

Enough was enough-- that's no decent way to live. On the one hand, there are attraction forces like the excitement over the SEOS designs, their affordability as DIY and with the discounts Erich get us. And the great body of documentation that's growing (thank you Java!). On the other hand, negative forces pushing me away from other products were the CHT speaker compromises (smaller horn), my limited finances, and eD going out of business. Econowave high sensitivity designs were a possability, but it was painful to wade through. Probably a Pi speakers kit would've been the only other option. 

 

I was in post-Christmas glow. It's really cold out in North Dakota. The decision was made for me. Out of my hands. Destiny. Plus, we deserve better, dammit! biggrin.gif

Java's sealed Fusion Max speakers

 

Fusion-10 Max

  • Horn: SEOS-12
  • Compression Driver: Denovo DNA-350 (B&C DC-250 clone)
  • Woofer: Eminence Delta 10A 10"
  • Cabinet: 1 cubic foot, ported (3 slots)
     
  • Sensitivity: 98dB
  • 55-18k Hz
  • Crossover: 1150 Hz
  • Power Handling: 200w 325w peak

 

The speaker (photo at right is of Java's, for now) sits in the middle of the pack versus the rest of the kitted SEOS designs (comparison spreadsheet), which is probably why I picked it. In all actuality, the Karma-10 would have been fine, as I don't expect to exceed reference levels in my small theater. I'm sure you all know the feeling, where you're afraid to speculate or regret the decision to get the cheapest model? 

 

Upgrade From

Paradigm Performance line:

  • Titan v3 bookshelves (replace with SEOS) (86db sensitivity)
  • CC-170 center (replace with SEOS) (87db sensitivity)

Setup & Room

  • Receiver: Pioneer 1014 ~110w
  • Surrounds: Paradigm ADP-170 (small dipoles)
  • Subwoofer: SVS PB-10 & a borrowed CV (yes, a subwoofer addition is in my future!).
  • Room: 11.5' x 24' theater (12' listening position), non-sealed
  • Acoustic Treatments: six 2' x 4' 2" panels
  • Display: Epson 8500 Projector
  • Screen: 109" 16:9 DIY blackout cloth
  • Measurement: external soundcard, Galaxy CM-140 meter, REW

Use of SEOS Pair

I'm going to try phantom center for now, as I don't have an acoustically-transparent project screen (yet). The best place for the sub is centered at front under the screen (as a speaker stand for the center. So I would have to move the sub to accommodate a taller center speaker. From what I read, the pair should give a great wide sweet spot that will be fine for the three seats across.

 

I intend to toe them in to crossfire at the opposite seats, as per Bill Waslo's article on the setup of constant directivity speakers so that through time (distance)-intensity trading, equal sound level is delivered to the left and right seats. Crossover at 100 Hz (although I'll have to measure to see if this should change).

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post #2 of 86 Old 01-23-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Arrival...Twins!

I don't know if these FedEx ground shipments require customer signature? I can only say that I secretly (yeah, on the Internet) am glad my wife was still a little ill today and stayed home for work. "Perfect!" I IM'd her. "Make sure to answer the doorbell and have them put the boxes in the garage."

 

I can offer another repetition of everyone's testament to Erich's packing prowess. The FedEx tracking allowed me to salivate in anticipation as I watched my care package roll from Cincinatti, to Ketucky, to Minneapolis, west to Billings, Montana -- wah? I'm in North Dakota, between Minnesota and Montana! It drove on the freeway past my town to go to Billings? Oh well, I was at Menards yesterday buying stuff

 

Erich said I'm a guinea pig for his packing two flat packs in a box. They seemed to fit great...worked for me (of course I didn't have to move the box). Great dense foam packing sheets. Err, at least, I hope they're packing material, cuz the cats have been clawing on them. If that's supposed to be free included cabinet lining...well let's just say they're more "open-cell" now. 

 

I showed my wife Java's videos. All of them. Well, we may have just clicked on a couple points of the crossover video. I'm looking for a cabinet finishing video next!

 

We dry-fit the boxes for fun. She said, "Ta-da! We're done, new speakers!" Shyeah right. 

 

Apparently, the cats took her false exaltation of accomplishment to mean that they should install themselves as "drivers."

 

 

EDIT: OMG the compression drivers are huge! And heavy! I lovingly stroked the SEOS-12 horn. I might have said, "Precioussss."

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post #3 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 04:27 AM
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Add carpet and call it a kitty condo tongue.gif
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post #4 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

Add carpet and call it a kitty condo tongue.gif

Genius idea to make lemonade in case I biff up this project!
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post #5 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 06:00 AM
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Woot! Always nice to see a new build started. I'm contemplating using these as surrounds with my Sentinels up front. Can't wait to see the progress. cool.gif


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post #6 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 06:10 AM
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so you were the guinea pig on the dbling up on shipping. Which means mine should ship today


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post #7 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

I'm interested in being able to listen at higher SPL than the 94 dB my speakers poop out at (and they sound harsh by that point, and maybe the receiver is overtaxed too) with low distortion.

Ironically, it's my wife who often turns up the volume, or asks to turn it up (yes, she's fantastic). I wince a bit on the loud scenes, and when the movie is done, I check the receiver at the back of the room, and I'm aghast at the level we were at: -8. No wonder I was wincing. We're being inflicted with mega compression and distortion! 

SNIP

Upgrade From



Paradigm Performance line:
  • Titan v3 bookshelves (replace with SEOS) (86db sensitivity)
  • CC-170 center (replace with SEOS) (87db sensitivity)

SNIP

I'm going to try phantom center for now, as I don't have an acoustically-transparent project screen (yet). The best place for the sub is centered at front under the screen (as a speaker stand for the center. So I would have to move the sub to accommodate a taller center speaker. From what I read, the pair should give a great wide sweet spot that will be fine for the three seats across.


I intend to toe them in to crossfire at the opposite seats, as per Bill Waslo's article on the setup of constant directivity speakers so that through time (distance)-intensity trading, equal sound level is delivered to the left and right seats. Crossover at 100 Hz (although I'll have to measure to see if this should change).

Woohooo that is going to be awesome to hear your impression of the upgrade. I think you'll be pleased biggrin.gif

If phantom center doesn't please you, there's easy ways to DIY AT screens wink.gif

This goes for any speaker, not just this one. If when you're trying to blend your subs with your mains, if you can't find a nice blend then try stuffing the ports. Even a little bit at a time. The more you restrict them the closer they get to being sealed which reduces the port output and changes the low end roll off. This can sometimes blend things together better. Especially if you don't want to move speakers/subs.

Thanks for documenting your build and good luck. I'll be following along smile.gif
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post #8 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Woohooo that is going to be awesome to hear your impression of the upgrade. I think you'll be pleased biggrin.gif
 

I know I was long-winded in the background, but I think the context of the upgrade is important for people reading later on. For instance, I'm not a good person to give impressions of this upgrade versus:

  • extended bass from the speakers: these don't extend low, and I don't want them to
  • other high sensitivity speakers: I haven't owned others. I've tried out some other Paradigms, but those were still about 90dB. Still compressed and distorted at mid-high levels.
  • other constant directivity speaker: these are the first I've owned. 
  • other horn speakers: I've read a lot, but I haven't tried other waveguide speakers except what I hear in commercial cinemas. 
  • high watts into less sensitivity: I grant that there are some designs that are of lower sensitivity, but have enough x-max and power handling to be low distortion. I haven't heard them.

 

So there's definitely a big delta between where I've been and what I'll have! :) 

But I did wait [glacially] until I felt like the upgrade would not have other regrettable downsides, like mid-priced Klipsch, or Axioms that might be of mid-sensitivity, but I'm dubious about some of their speakers' mid-bass at high drive levels, and still would need more room treatments as sound splashes the walls/ceiling.

 

I'm upgrading from a reasonable starter system to something I expect to be amazing!

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post #9 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Woofer Distortion Differences?

Sometimes in WinISD when I'd try to model these speakers it seemed like I was seeing excursion greater than Xmax at even 100w at, say, 80Hz. This is probably my inexperience with some of the values, or maybe I didn't correct the T/S parameters correctly versus what WinISD defaults to, or get the ports right. Could someone verify Xmax down low, so I know how hard I can and can't push this speaker?

 

What do y'all feel about the Eminence Delta-10A's distortion and Xmax? And what it gives up versus, say, the Pro-12A or DeltaLite, etc.? 

 

  • Is Eminence's Xmax trustworthy as far as the limit of where one will start to see 10% distortion? Or did they rate it by the geometry?
  • Will I be exceeding Xmax at reference levels at low freqs?
  • Assuming the drive levels are low enough where I'm below the 3.5mm of Xmax, what are the differences versus the other more expensive drivers? What am I missing out on, if I'm crossing over well above the woofer's Fs?
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post #10 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 10:27 AM
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If you're using the pre-loaded specs in winisd, for some reason they have the wrong xmax for this woofer. See the spec sheet here: http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_10A.pdf

Xmax is 3.5mm and Xlim is 9.4mm. I just double checked my WinIsd model and in the ported version it barely reaches 3.5mm with 100watts and no highpass (except below tuning). With the 80hz high pass it can take 150 watts before reaching xmax.

The 200 watt power limit I chose was partly based on a 80hz subwoofer cross over and 4mm of excursion which I consider acceptable at insane levels. 325 watts peak isn't considering excursion, but even so, that's just over 5mm and within xlim.

At 100 watts you're around 115db at 1m. This should get you to reference at the listening position.

Hope that helps clarify that a little. Nice catch!
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post #11 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 10:27 AM
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Woofer Distortion Differences?



Sometimes in WinISD when I'd try to model these speakers it seemed like I was seeing excursion greater than Xmax at even 100w at, say, 80Hz.
That's not the exception with pro-sound drivers, that's the rule. Pro-sound drivers with high displacement limits, like the KappaLites, are the exception.

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post #12 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!

 

So, if one is driving at less than 50% Xmax on the Delta-10A and the same for, say, the Deltalite or Kappalite, would you expect the distortion levels to be similarly below audibility?
Analogous to two amps that are driven well beneath their limits will sound the same?

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post #13 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Woofer Distortion Differences?

Sometimes in WinISD when I'd try to model these speakers it seemed like I was seeing excursion greater than Xmax at even 100w at, say, 80Hz. This is probably my inexperience with some of the values, or maybe I didn't correct the T/S parameters correctly versus what WinISD defaults to, or get the ports right. Could someone verify Xmax down low, so I know how hard I can and can't push this speaker?

In winisd, add a 2nd order highpass at 80hz. This is like setting the crossover on your receiver to 80hz. Now you can add some more power/watts.



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post #14 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 02:01 PM
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Thanks!

So, if one is driving at less than 50% Xmax on the Delta-10A and the same for, say, the Deltalite or Kappalite, would you expect the distortion levels to be similarly below audibility?

Analogous to two amps that are driven well beneath their limits will sound the same?

That's a tricky question because it depends on lots of things (what type of distortion, sensitivity to distortion, other masking sounds, etc.). But the data isn't lying and the bigger 12" more expensive woofers do have lower distortion. They just do. But they cost more and take up more space. Will you hear it??? I doubt it. It is a little like the amp analogy. They're both so low in distortion that it takes a microphone to find it.

There are some really great things about the delta 10a and it really hits a sweet spot on price/performance. I have been blown away by it.
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post #15 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool beans!
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post #16 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 03:34 PM
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There are some really great things about the delta 10a and it really hits a sweet spot on price/performance. I have been blown away by it.
The Delta 10 is a nice driver if you use it where it's appropriate, above 80Hz. Unfortunately, Eminence lists it as suitable for electric bass, which it really isn't, and it's ended up in cabs where it shouldn't have been used, including a surprising number of commercial electric bass cabs. mad.gif

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post #17 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 03:47 PM
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Really? Wow, ya, I totally agree that is a really back application for it. I agree that 80hz is it's bottom limit. 1500hz being it's top limit with an aggressive slope. Have you used it too?
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post #18 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Really? Wow, ya, I totally agree that is a really back application for it. I agree that 80hz is it's bottom limit. 1500hz being it's top limit with an aggressive slope. Have you used it too?

Ha, yeah, I noticed when Googling over the past month how much of the Eminence DeltaXX discussion in on guitar and PA forums. And Bill is in most of them. smile.gif

 

I read one today where the poster made a bass guitar cab out of two 10A's, and the other posters said pretty much was Bill said, except not so nice. Doesn't dig deep enough...wrong driver for the application. 

 

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Really? Wow, ya, I totally agree that is a really back application for it. I agree that 80hz is it's bottom limit. 1500hz being it's top limit with an aggressive slope. Have you used it too?
I haven't used it myself, though I do recommend it where it's appropriate.
Quote:
I read one today where the poster made a bass guitar cab out of two 10A's, and the other posters said pretty much was Bill said, except not so nice. Doesn't dig deep enough...wrong driver for the application.
That's to be expected from guys who only know inches and watts, not Fs and xmax. But a surprising number of manufacturers don't know any better. Even worse are manufacturers who put the Kappa Pro ten into bass cabs based on its 500w rating, oblivious to the fact that its 3.2mm xmax and 0.2 Qts made it worthless in that application. But if it looks good it will sell, and a 2kW 4x10 looks really good on paper to the uninformed.

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post #20 of 86 Old 01-24-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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That is strange... One would hope a guitar cab manufacturer would know that the speaker should not be rolling off right at the low E, even if it was supposedly marketed to non-bass guitar.
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post #21 of 86 Old 01-26-2013, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

I know I was long-winded in the background, but I think the context of the upgrade is important for people reading later on. For instance, I'm not a good person to give impressions of this upgrade versus:
  • extended bass from the speakers: these don't extend low, and I don't want them to
  • other high sensitivity speakers: I haven't owned others. I've tried out some other Paradigms, but those were still about 90dB. Still compressed and distorted at mid-high levels.
  • other constant directivity speaker: these are the first I've owned. 
  • other horn speakers: I've read a lot, but I haven't tried other waveguide speakers except what I hear in commercial cinemas. 
  • high watts into less sensitivity: I grant that there are some designs that are of lower sensitivity, but have enough x-max and power handling to be low distortion. I haven't heard them.

So there's definitely a big delta between where I've been and what I'll have! smile.gif 
But I did wait [glacially] until I felt like the upgrade would not have other regrettable downsides, like mid-priced Klipsch, or Axioms that might be of mid-sensitivity, but I'm dubious about some of their speakers' mid-bass at high drive levels, and still would need more room treatments as sound splashes the walls/ceiling.

I'm upgrading from a reasonable starter system to something I expect to be amazing!

Good luck with your build, and please post as much build shots/steps as you can. As a fellow noob, you know how hungry you are for info, so the more the merrier. Also, don't worry about redundancy to my thread. First, repetition is a good thing. Second, your kit is slightly different from my beta kit.

Last, you will be blown away from the upgrade from your paradigms. Before I mounted these on the sides, I tested them upfront and they kept up very well to my SEOS mains, which trashed my paradigms. You'll be very happy.

Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions.
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Cabinet Assembly

Well, I'm not "making sawdust," as they say, since this is the lazy-man's build. But I'm definitely making a mess!

 

I have one cabinet mostly assembled. We're waiting for the second round of panels and glueing to dry, which is Step 4 of Java's instructions. Next stop: baffle!

 

Speaking of Java's instructions, I ran into trouble with them. Can we leave it at that? ... Oh, no? *sigh* Well, specifically, the trouble was that I didn't pay enough attention to them. 

 

Line Up!

After today, I know two things to be true: 

  1. Listen to your wife.
  2. Listen to Java.

 

He specifically said to make sure that the braces line up with the edges. I'll even read it for you: "Make sure it seats and lines up with the edges on left & right"

 

We got stuck for several minutes with clamp trouble (see below). And we also had trouble seating one of the braces all the way to the bottom.

 

You Ain't Be Groovin'

To my wife's credit, she said, "This seems a little wobbly....it's not seated like before." 

I pushed on it. Hard. Like a man. "Nah," I replied. "It's down as far as it'll go." We played with it a bit, but I think we should have slit it back-and-forth to get it seated all the way to the bottom of the groove it fits in? Or used the mallet. Oh yes, that tidbit from Step 1 of Java's: "Use a mallet or 2x4 to seat stubborn panels."

 

Mind the Gap

 

And the glue that was pushed out to the edges occluded the fact that now the brace wasn't lined up with the edge of the back panel. We did notice this after we got the excess glue wiped up, but by now it'd been 10 minutes. I tapped on one side of the brace tentatively. Felt it sticking out a .75 mm. Tapped with more vigor. No change. Tapped on it again. Oh boy, I think the glue has already set. Nothing that more glue and Bondo can't fix. I think.

 

EDIT: To be clear, the DIY Sound Group flat pack kit is super easy. Rabbet joints make that you simply slide the pieces together. They're butted up against wood in two or three directions, so the load is well-supported and it provides more surfaces for glue. These cabinets are strong!

 

As Erich notes below, before you walk away after a final clamping of a step

  • make sure everything's lined up flush
  • use enough clamps that the pressure is even to reduce bowing
  • tap stubborn pieces into place with a rubber mallet, block of wood, etc. 
  • don't use so much pressure the MDF deforms or you introduce bowing.

 

Clamp Crap

So, the clamp. I bought some 12" and 24" clamps at Menards last week. A coworker had said to avoid the plastic clamps. Like the ones that are in Java's video. The only long clamps at Menards were these long metal ones with a wooden handle screw that tightens it down. "Tool Shop" was the brand, but I've since seen these same clamps under another brand in another store. "Hmm, we were just talking at work the other day about how we've been burned by Tool Shop junk. Drill bits that snap immediately, blades that break, etc." But this was metal, and wood. Didn't seem like there was much that could go wrong. 

 

The two 12" clamps we used in the 10.75" axis both can't stay locked in the ratcheting action. You pull this metal tab slider that allows the clamp to slide along the metal rail. Except, you don't really need to pull the metal tab. It slides freely even when it's in the "locked" position. After the clamp is loosely touching the surfaces, you're supposed to twist the wood handle to screw the bolt behind the clamp and tighten on the surface. Except that the ratchet freely lets it loosen. And then the offset weight of the clamp, a rush of air, a hard stare will make it loosen completely and it falls down. 

Tool Shop 12" clamps at Menards.

 

I'd like to say that, "I like the clamps, except for the part where they don't hold things together," but I don't really like the design even in the two that do stay locked. It's a little cumbersome. 

 

I couldn't bring myself to go back to Menards just yet, so I stopped at a MAC's hardware closer. I realized that the 12" clamps won't be long enough, either, when I need to clamp in the 14.5" dimension. (you can see I really thought my shopping list through!). MAC's had only 12" or 24" clamps trigger grip style, so that's what I got.

 

 

 

 

 

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post #23 of 86 Old 01-26-2013, 10:22 PM
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Looking good!

I have two of those tool shop clamps that won't stay locked in position as well and the other 3 seem to be on their way out. They are crap should be avoided at all cost. I tried to find a picture of my solution but looks like I don't have one, anyway I just put a little C-clamp on there it to keep it in place biggrin.gif

Does your menards carry the orange Jorgensen clamps in that style? Much much better quality and made in the USA, I have 8 of them from 6" up to 30" all work great.
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post #24 of 86 Old 01-27-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Inner Baffle and Side

Next we worked on the rest of the sides last night. While I thought I had more than enough clamps after the other two 24" clamps (the orange ones) purchased at MAC's Hardware, I barely had enough!

 

 

 

Apparently, with each iterative step of gluing and clamping, the speakers become a "completely new object" and must be inspected each time by the cats. That's okay, as they lend additional weight while the glue sets

 

 

Baffled

Outer baffle done...huzzah!

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post #25 of 86 Old 01-27-2013, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Clamps

Argh, one of the orange ones from MAC's wasn't tightening as much as its sibling last night. Today, it doesn't tighten at all. Useless. 

 

There are going to be some clamp returns in my future. I'll check out the Jorgensens mtg90 suggests.

 

The red-colored clamps you see are from Tractor Supply Company (three blocks away). They were on sale $3.50 for a 6". I bought them because they only had one 2". I'm happy with them so far, at least. 

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post #26 of 86 Old 01-27-2013, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Second Cabinet Started

We're onto the second cabinet. When my wife is using the useless orange clamp, she thinks it's tight. Then I do mine on the opposite side and that jiggles the box, and the butterfly-grip of the clamp comes loose and it falls to the floor. She's sure I'm sabotaging her. Maybe, but only in that I've bought crappy clamps...twice.  frown.gif

 

We're doing a better job of making sure the panels are pushed down all the way into the grooves and are lined up with edges. Kind of how you screw up on your first child, so when raising the second you can fix everything you did wrong. Or horribly over-compensate and make it worse.  biggrin.gif

 

Bondo

I've never used the stuff before. I'll add less hardener and see how that goes. I can see lots of areas I need to build up and seams to fill.

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post #27 of 86 Old 01-27-2013, 02:54 PM
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Nice write up so far. The braces were cut so that they're tight enough to stand up on their own once tapped inside the dado grooves during assembly. If it feels a little too tight, you can always hit the edges real quick with a sanding block so they tap in easier.

Definitely dry fit things together so you can see how the box was designed to be assembled. It might not look like it, but a lot of time was spent to make sure it was 'nearly' fool proof. smile.gif The top, bottom, and horizontal braces are all the same width and seat perfectly inside the rabbet joints so that's it's really easy to line up the sides later. You might notice that as long as those panels are inside the rabbet joints, the box will go together just fine, even if everything is slightly crooked.


If seams and edges look like they need a decent amount of filler, the reason would probably be that you either clamped the boards too tight, which will cause them to warp a little while drying, or didn't have enough clamps. If you clamp the edges of a panel, but not the center, it will bow slightly towards the middle of the panel. No big deal, you just need some extra filler. Laying a 2x4 across the clamped board will help even out the pressure of the individual clamps.

It's also easier to sit the box up off table, or floor a few inches so you can easily get your clamps under or around the box. I think if you do roughly one panel at a time, 5 clamps would be best, but 4 will get it done. And there's really no reason to put a huge amount of clamping power on those clamps. Juts snug them up so the panel doesn't fit while it's drying.

Either way, it looks like you're doing good.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #28 of 86 Old 01-27-2013, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
Definitely dry fit things together so you can see how the box was designed to be assembled. It might not look like it, but a lot of time was spent to make sure it was 'nearly' fool proof. smile.gif

Thanks!

 

I definitely have no knocks against the flatpack. It's fantastic! I should've been clear about that above. I'll edit to explain that the problems are of my own making. We did dry fit. We just had so much glue spilling out of the sides that it occluded the areas that were sticking out or inset. 

 

Oh, and I blame Java. His sped-up video makes it seem super easy. My brain thinks, "Gosh, in the video that step only took 3.5 seconds." We rushed too much and weren't careful. Since the kit is easy enough for a monkey to put together...well, it gives some idea of our capabilities. redface.gif So, you've made it easy. We also really appreciate that the panels are largely directionally-agnostic. No left or right, top or bottom. Just have to make sure the baffles line up with the braces for woofer vs. waveguide. Even we didn't screw that up! wink.gif

 

The second cabinet is going much better / faster.

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post #29 of 86 Old 01-27-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Initial Sanding

While glue was drying between steps on the second cabinet, I started sanding the first cabinet. 

 

I started reading the Bondo directions. I almost found an old plastic bowl to try to mix it with hardener in. And then I remember Java saying that he wished he sanded more first before doing Bondo. 

 

So I switched to the orbital sander and sanded down the parts of each side that stick out. Most of the time these were just the panel edged. On one side, the panel surface was higher than the edge on one side and needed more sanding. 

 

I should be using 80 grit but Menards didn't have any of those disks, so I'm using 120 grit. This makes it take another 15 minutes longer than it should, but that just yields more incentive to be more careful on the second cabinet! biggrin.gif

 

I'm not sure how much pressure one can use on an orbital sander? As you apply more pressure the motor "bears down" audibly, so I do it a bit but not too hard. 

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post #30 of 86 Old 01-28-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Sanded the second speaker. 

Bondo tomorrow.

Soldering iron from Amazon arrives then, too, which I hear is a good activity while the paint dries.

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