DIY Sealed Flat Pack for a Newbie? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I've been lurking here in AVS for years and now face a decision. I own Paradigm Active 40's across the front (an amplified full range bookshelf that is surprisingly capable into the 30s) , the Onkyo 818 is on its way (can't wait for the new Audyssey XT32) and now it's time for subwoofer decisions.

I'm down South in the burbs, so there's no basement or man cave- the open concept living area is where the equipment shall thus be forever. Room pressuring ain't happening with WAF and/or budget.

I kept reading the bass forum here and haunting Ebay, audiogon and craigslist looking for the elusive sweet spot when I noticed this forum…. DIY, it's got to be too hard…..then I opened it up and read some threads.

I would have to use what is described as "flat packs" and start with one sealed enclosure. I'm not the traditional DIYer in any way, but I'm particularly motivated in this instance at the performance for the buck issue. Sure I could get the This Years Model SVGQ Nuclear Ultra Boxster after months of fighting (and hoping the manufacturer stays in business), but if I get a smaller box which delivers good value now, then the next box I add will exceed what I initially get with the former (and I can still hide the second one…sort of).

I love you guys who have talked your spouses into recreating Imax in your living rooms-but I'm stuck with my 50 inch four year old Panasonic plasma for at least 10 more years.
Before I even bring this up to her, I'm going to have to finish hiding the speaker cables and wires (much worse with active speakers btw).

But if I can do one sealed enclosure which makes her feel the crashing train, then doing the second one the next year won't be such a negotiation. I can handle flat pack assembly by taking my time, doubting myself every step and never straying far from this forum. "Reference volume" sends us running away from the room-besides I'm in my fifties and 'feeling' sound will be all I have in a few years……….any suggestions? Budget for first box-600/700?
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post #2 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 11:24 AM
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Not sure on your size constraints, but this:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/3-sub-flat-pack.html

With a Dayton DVC15, HO15, or Stereo Integrity HT 15 (good, better, betterer)

Or this:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html

with the Dayton HO18 or SI 18.

Add a bash 300 or 500 amp, or a pro amp like the iNuke NU3000.

There are lots of build threads on here with those drivers if you look around
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post #3 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Newbie question--what is meant by a "pro amp" as opposed to just 'amp'?
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post #4 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 11:31 AM
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Pro audio...meant for live sound and typically rack mountable.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/live-power-amplifiers
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post #5 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the links and the definition, I'll look at for the builds as you posted.
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post #6 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 11:54 AM
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First off, welcome to DIY; it's not as hard as you think!

Next, room pressurization occurs in all rooms, it's just more audible in small rooms. What's your short dimension? (565 / distance in feet) is formula for the lowest frequency mode that fits. Granted, the effect is greatest at frequencies below the lowest supported room mode, but that's a 56.5' room at 10Hz.

As a starter sub, sealed is the easiest and generally smallest. It's hard to beat a combination like this:
Driver: Dayton RSS390HF http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468
Amp: Dayton SPA500 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-807
or Yung SD500-6 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=301-514
Box: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/3-sub-flat-pack.html
(mounting hole already cut to fit RSS-390 driver.)

This driver/box combination gives an F3 of 35Hz and an F10 below 20Hz, with the ability to output 100dB (@1m) at 20Hz from 250W. That sounds like what you're looking for. I suggest the SPA500 amp for it's PEQ, and the Yung for it's price ($200) and 6dB of boost at 25Hz. There are also rack-mount options that may fit better if your system is rack mounted.

It also hits your cost target; $175 driver + $200 amp + $100 box <$500. Yes, there are better drivers, cheaper drivers, larger/smaller drivers and plenty of combinations that may work just as well for you; this is just one of many good designs, but it is one of the good ones.

Since DIYSound is out of the 3 cu ft packs, I'll note that if you can find a "hobbyist" or "fine hardwoods" lumber store (i.e. not construction lumber), they may be willing to cut the panels for you. HD/Lowes may, too, but dimensions will not be as precise... and you'll need some basic tools like a drill, and a jig saw for cutting mounting holes (and for the driver cut-out unless you have a router and circle jig).

... and I now see others have responded similarly! Enjoy!

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #7 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 01:15 PM
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Welcome! Have a look at the DIY FAQ in my signature to get you started. It contains an overview of projects, what's required, how to's, etc. Have fun!
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post #8 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 01:26 PM
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How large is your room (length x width x height)?
Is it a sealed room or opened to other rooms, and if opened to other rooms, what is the size of those?

Gorilla's FAQ's are a great starting point and there are lots of threads out there. Also ask away. I was a complete noob a few months ago and built four sealed subs and am in nirvana smile.gif
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post #9 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Room is 27 feet by 24, but that includes kitchen(open concept living space). It is open twice to the front office/living room, which is 19x10. The short wall (24) where tv is mounted has is open to hall leading to bedrooms. Just moved in-all tile and walls-no curtains up yet and one small 6 by 10 foot rug in front of home theater right now. Listening area ceiling is over 10 feet-kitchen is an 8 foot ceiling. Front room ceiling varies like listening area-one 10 foot area and one 8 foot area.
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post #10 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crogged View Post

But if I can do one sealed enclosure which makes her feel the crashing train, then doing the second one the next year won't be such a negotiation. I can handle flat pack assembly by taking my time, doubting myself every step and never straying far from this forum. "Reference volume" sends us running away from the room-besides I'm in my fifties and 'feeling' sound will be all I have in a few years……….any suggestions? Budget for first box-600/700?

If you plan is do a second box eventually, take a good look at the pro audio amps since they (generally) 2-channel and are well suited to running a second sub without buying a second amp. Lots of choices and I won't try to recommend one since I'm running a single plate amp....almost 10 years old and still chugging away.
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post #11 of 16 Old 01-24-2013, 07:01 PM
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You have a massive room to fill when you factor in total square footage. If you can only go with one sub now and need flat packs, I would get a 3.5 or 4.5 cu ft flat pack from here (as nograveconcern referenced):
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/35-sub-flat-pack.html

Again, since you are limited to how many subs, I would spring for the 18" SI or Dayton driver and go with the pro audio amp so you can plan for 2 subs down the road.

The Behringer iNuke 3000DSP would be one to consider or this one:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Behringer-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/17656014

The EP4000 would power the 18" Dayton drivers better I would think and would power two subs with no problem. The iNuke would be fine for a pair of 15" subs but it might be underpowered for dual 18's.
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post #12 of 16 Old 01-25-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the input and it seems my path is to start 'small' with one and the separate pro amp (how can 15" woofers be 'small'?) and keep trying to sneak separate boxes in until she notices......
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post #13 of 16 Old 01-25-2013, 07:28 AM
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If you think you'll stay sealed and add another sub in the future, go with the iNuke 3000 for your amp and a D4 driver. With a sealed design you have no real need for the DSP version for use as a rumble filter. The D4 driver will be a nominal 2ohm load and can be driven by a single channel of the iNuke 3000, with another identical sub being driven by the second channel int he future

If you think you might stay with a single sub but re-build in a larger vented enclosure, go with a D2 driver (4ohm nominal load) and an iNuke 1000 DSP. The DSP will give you the rumble filter feature you need in the future, while the 4ohm nominal load will let you get the same power from the amp in bridged mode as a single channel of the iNuke 3000.

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post #14 of 16 Old 01-25-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I've hunted and poked around here and in the databass website but can't find an answer, what is meant by a D4--the speaker's nominal impedance?
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-25-2013, 08:33 AM
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D4 = dual 4 ohm voice coil smile.gif
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post #16 of 16 Old 01-25-2013, 09:06 AM
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Which means it can be 2 ohm nominal or 8 ohm nominal.
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