There's a new sheriff in town! Inuke DSP 12000 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 355 Old 02-23-2014, 09:21 PM
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wall voltage is not constant.. if only. voltage will sag due to low gauge wiring, long runs, etc.

your epx is probably going into protect because voltage is sagging below 90v to the power supply (causes digital amps to shutdown)
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post #272 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 05:34 AM
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So, eventually (when the new high power subwoofers arrive) am I stuck just plugging this thing directly into the wall? Instead of buying a super expensive surge suppression system capable of 30 amp at 120v?

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post #273 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 05:38 AM
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Unless your area is prone to surges and brown outs, I wouldn't bother with it.

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post #274 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"That may be true for the speaker, but the PS has to replenish the energy taken out of the caps either way, and the wall voltage is constant so more power means more current."

?

I thought the high local impedance around resonance reduced the current from the amp and in turn from the wall.

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wall voltage is not constant.. if only. voltage will sag due to low gauge wiring, long runs, etc.

your epx is probably going into protect because voltage is sagging below 90v to the power supply (causes digital amps to shutdown)

12GA wire (20A circuit) is 1.6 mOhm per foot. So if you have a 100 foot round trip (50 feet each way), you have ~0.16 ohms of resistance. So @ 80A, you are dropping 12.8Volts. The worst part about starting to "brown out" is that no matter what for every Watt you put out you need to pull one watt in minimum. When your voltage starts drooping that means the current you pull in doesn't go up in a linear fashion. Here is where it gets scary; non-power factor corrected amps...the peak currents might be double or triple or even more than that! Furthermore, breaker trip curve aren't "linear" either. So the reason why some people might trip during "spirited sessions" isn't because of how much power they are putting out, it is because the AC to DC stage in their PA is ****.

Rule of thumb I have is no more than 3x pulse power for a given breaker size for a class D power factor corrected amp. For traditional (e.g. pasive front end) class A/B or B I would never go higher than 1.5:1 So, if you have a 20A breaker in the US, that means 110*20*3 = 6600W. For the people going with the iNuke 12000 seriously need to look at a 220V/20A source at a minimum. Furthermore, going to 220V manages the droop better since it is a smaller fraction of the baseline voltage.

FYI, a really good test of your wiring is to hook up an incandescent bulb in the same socket as a cheap circle saw and pull the trigger. If the bulb strongly dims, the circuit isn't really good for "pulse loads"

EDIT: Clarification on A/B comment.

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
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post #275 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post


12GA wire (20A circuit) is 1.6 mOhm per foot. So if you have a 100 foot round trip (50 feet each way), you have ~0.16 ohms of resistance. So @ 80A, you are dropping 12.8Volts. The worst part about starting to "brown out" is that no matter what for every Watt you put out you need to pull one watt in minimum. When your voltage starts drooping that means the current you pull in doesn't go up in a linear fashion. Here is where it gets scary; non-power factor corrected amps...the peak currents might be double or triple or even more than that! Furthermore, breaker trip curve aren't "linear" either. So the reason why some people might trip during "spirited sessions" isn't because of how much power they are putting out, it is because the AC to DC stage in their PA is ****.

Rule of thumb I have is no more than 3x pulse power for a given breaker size for a class D power factor corrected amp. For traditional (e.g. pasive front end) class A/B or B I would never go higher than 1.5:1 So, if you have a 20A breaker in the US, that means 110*20*3 = 6600W. For the people going with the iNuke 12000 seriously need to look at a 220V/20A source at a minimum. Furthermore, going to 220V manages the droop better since it is a smaller fraction of the baseline voltage.

FYI, a really good test of your wiring is to hook up an incandescent bulb in the same socket as a cheap circle saw and pull the trigger. If the bulb strongly dims, the circuit isn't really good for "pulse loads"

EDIT: Clarification on A/B comment.

Thanks for that info. Unfortunately I ordered mine in 120VAC (US) (only option I had). I have a 30a 120V outlet being put in my theater room hoping it will do the trick.

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post #276 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post


FYI, a really good test of your wiring is to hook up an incandescent bulb in the same socket as a cheap circle saw and pull the trigger. If the bulb strongly dims, the circuit isn't really good for "pulse loads"

I have a dedicated 10/3 line (roughly 50 ft) on 30 amp breakers straight from my service box to the ht amps. Bass hits cause incandescent bulbs to dim *on other circuits in my house*!
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post #277 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by thebuckaman View Post

Thanks for that info. Unfortunately I ordered mine in 120VAC (US) (only option I had). I have a 30a 120V outlet being put in my theater room hoping it will do the trick.

It should be enough. But if you do a NOTNYT system....it might not be. biggrin.gif Just remember to really get the most out of your outlet, you need a good power factor corrected amp.
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Originally Posted by andy497 View Post

I have a dedicated 10/3 line (roughly 50 ft) on 30 amp breakers straight from my service box to the ht amps. Bass hits cause incandescent bulbs to dim *on other circuits in my house*!

Eeep. That is a bit scary. How much do they dim? I mean is it a "big dim" or "noticeable"? What is the breaker rating of your main panel? There could be other aspects at play here. But as for having a 30A breaker means you have 10GA wire which is ~1mOhm per foot. This puts you in a 'much better space". What amp are you using (not sure if you stated it earlier).

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
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post #278 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"That may be true for the speaker, but the PS has to replenish the energy taken out of the caps either way, and the wall voltage is constant so more power means more current."

?

I thought the high local impedance around resonance reduced the current from the amp and in turn from the wall.

That's true of the woofer/box resonance, but at higher freq I believe the higher impedance means less current/less power.

But that's besides the point of power is power.
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Originally Posted by andy497 View Post

I have a dedicated 10/3 line (roughly 50 ft) on 30 amp breakers straight from my service box to the ht amps. Bass hits cause incandescent bulbs to dim *on other circuits in my house*!

Then it must be drop across the lines feeding your service entrance.

You could try asking the power company to replace them.

Noah
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post #279 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

Eeep. That is a bit scary. How much do they dim? I mean is it a "big dim" or "noticeable"? What is the breaker rating of your main panel? There could be other aspects at play here. .

It's an old house with old wiring and wimpy service. Not big dimming, but you can see them pulse slightly to music when I have everything cranked. Amps are an inuke nu4-6000 on mains and not working too hard, inuke 6000 and ep4000 on subs and being driven balls out.

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Then it must be drop across the lines feeding your service entrance.

You could try asking the power company to replace them.

Hrm... Wow. I think I'll be content. It's a pretty cool party trick.
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post #280 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 02:07 PM
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That's the spirit; it's a feature, not a bug smile.gif

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post #281 of 355 Old 02-24-2014, 04:27 PM
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My electric bill dropped considerably after running new copper lines and circuit breakers to my "Heavy Breathers". I remember the Living Room ceiling light pulsing the the beat of whatever music was playing.
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post #282 of 355 Old 02-27-2014, 03:13 PM
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Inuke 12000DSP now showing as in stock and ready to ship at bhphotovideo.com!!!
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post #283 of 355 Old 02-27-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
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Inuke 12000DSP now showing as in stock and ready to ship at bhphotovideo.com!!!

Yep, they are trickling into distributors and retailers now. cool.gif

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post #284 of 355 Old 03-06-2014, 10:13 PM
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"But that's besides the point of power is power."

at resonance in the enclosure power drops dramatically for the same spl. that's all i was getting at.

large ported cab, impedance.


low pass filter, high pass filter, power follows inverse of impedance.


this is with "2200 watts". at resonance, around 30hz, almost no power is consumed.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #285 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
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Inuke 12000DSP now showing as in stock and ready to ship at bhphotovideo.com!!!

1k for a 12000? Why not buy 2 6000s for $760 and save $240?
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post #286 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 09:36 AM
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1k for a 12000? Why not buy 2 6000s for $760 and save $240?

They won't suffice if you need 2 ohm capability.

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post #287 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 10:35 AM
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Yep.
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post #288 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 12:50 PM
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They won't suffice if you need 2 ohm capability.

If the 2 ohms comes from two paralleled 4 ohm coils, you could biwire.
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post #289 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 01:05 PM
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If the 2 ohms comes from two paralleled 4 ohm coils, you could biwire.

Maybe a little OT, but i was discussing this the other day and didn't find the answer. If you have a dual voice coil woofer and a two channel amp. Can you the run the amp in parallel mode with each channel into each coil of the woofer? If yes the how do you figure out the TS spec if only the spec for parallel coupled coils is given and what power do you put into the model. Sorry if these Qs might seem too simple but DVC is really all new to me and id rather ask than get it wrong.

Thanks :-)
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post #290 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 01:15 PM
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If the 2 ohms comes from two paralleled 4 ohm coils, you could biwire.

Good point Noah!

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post #291 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 01:26 PM
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I'd take the easy way out and and just pretend it's driven by one amp with twice the power.
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Maybe a little OT, but i was discussing this the other day and didn't find the answer. If you have a dual voice coil woofer and a two channel amp. Can you the run the amp in parallel mode with each channel into each coil of the woofer? If yes the how do you figure out the TS spec if only the spec for parallel coupled coils is given and what power do you put into the model. Sorry if these Qs might seem too simple but DVC is really all new to me and id rather ask than get it wrong.

Thanks :-)

Noah
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post #292 of 355 Old 03-07-2014, 10:32 PM
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I'd take the easy way out and and just pretend it's driven by one amp with twice the power.

OK thanks. Sounds easy enough.
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post #293 of 355 Old 03-18-2014, 11:10 AM
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Inuke 12000DSP is now available at americanmusical.com. You can also purchase it on a five month payment plan consisting of five $200 payments.
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post #294 of 355 Old 03-19-2014, 06:05 AM
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Inuke 12000DSP is now available at americanmusical.com. You can also purchase it on a five month payment plan consisting of five $200 payments.

Several other sites have it as well. The problem is that the MAP is $999. So, you need to work directly with a dealer to negotiate any lower. I know for a fact that it can be had for a couple hundred less.
At $999 I am not sure it is worth it.

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Several other sites have it as well. The problem is that the MAP is $999. So, you need to work directly with a dealer to negotiate any lower. I know for a fact that it can be had for a couple hundred less.
At $999 I am not sure it is worth it.

I agree. But if it at least puts out 3 kilowatts @ 4 ohms, I would take it over a clone amp.
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post #296 of 355 Old 03-19-2014, 11:01 AM
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I agree. But if it at least puts out 3 kilowatts @ 4 ohms, I would take it over a clone amp.

Ya, but I doubt it would. I would suspect more like 2300-2400 at 4 ohms. I think you can safely take any figures they give and take 70% of that for a closer to real world figure...Roughly 50-60% of what a clone would do.
Still not bad though, better at $800. There are better choices over that price, at least IMO.
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Quote:
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Ya, but I doubt it would. I would suspect more like 2300-2400 at 4 ohms. I think you can safely take any figures they give and take 70% of that for a closer to real world figure...Roughly 50-60% of what a clone would do.
Still not bad though, better at $800. There are better choices over that price, at least IMO.

So you believe it only puts out 3-400 watts more@ 4ohms than what the Inuke 6000 does?
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post #298 of 355 Old 03-19-2014, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
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So you believe it only puts out 3-400 watts more@ 4ohms than what the Inuke 6000 does?

Yes, because that is all it is rated at.

The 6000 is spec'ed at 3000w x 2 at 4 ohms and puts out around 2000w. So, if the 12000 is rated at 3400w....

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post #299 of 355 Old 03-19-2014, 11:17 AM
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Yes, because that is all it is rated at.

The 6000 is spec'ed at 3000w x 2 at 4 ohms and puts out around 2000w. So, if the 12000 is rated at 3400w....

Seems logical..

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post #300 of 355 Old 03-19-2014, 11:35 AM
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Seems logical..

Yes, but one never knows for sure. We will see soon enough when tested.

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