There's a new sheriff in town! Inuke DSP 12000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Behringer INuke DSP 12000 - a stereo amp with a very respectable DSP
6000 watts per channel at 2 ohm.
3000 watts per channel at 4 ohm
12 lbs.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/NU12000DSP.aspx


It's like a sanway clone amp --- but with a warranty and a reputable company behind it!

+ when it actually is available --- 15% off coupons at Musicians Friend and Guitar Central are options!

This might be a game changer for big power on the cheap. DSP options only go down to 20hz on the previous INuke units -- but you can still do some magic with filters and shelfs below 20hz if you know what you are doing.

I love my INuke DSP 3000. I'll be watching this product closely.

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post #2 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 10:56 AM
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Better have a dedicated 30A circuit in place.eek.gif

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post #3 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 10:57 AM
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its also like half the weight of the sanway
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post #4 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:01 AM
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It's also nothing like the Sanway amps. It's just another digital lightweight with way overstated power output numbers. A dime a dozen. tongue.gif
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post #5 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Scott -

I'd buy the INuke (granted it's vaporware at current) over the sanway amp in a heartbeat at the same price. Behringer RMS figures are typically about 2/3's of their peak figures. They don't have a "brochure" out for this model yet (where they actually list RMS and Peak numbers for the other models), but assume it's going to measure about 4,000 watts per channel at 2ohm RMS based on previous INuke history. Sanway can't do two ohm.

boom -- done. Winner Behringer

warranty/support/ease of purchase?

winner by TKO is Behringer - 3 year warranty

DSP vs No DSP?

winner by TKO is Behringer

Weight/Power Efficiency?

Winner = Behringer


About the only thing the Sanway is going to give you over this Inuke for typical sub duty -- assuming the Inuke materializes -- is a headache. smile.gif


I've owned a few amps

Crown XLS-5000
Behringer EP4000
Behringer INuke DSP3000
Crown XLS-202
American Audio V3000

and been around quite a few more ---

The INuke DSP 3000 when taken as a whole is top two of that list. I preferred it as a package with the DSP over the EP4000 on my Captivators, even though it was slightly less powerful than the EP4000. I like the Crown XLS-5000 more, but with the DSP back in play and presumably around 4000 watts per channel at two ohm (vs. the 2500 per channel I have now on the crown). I think the Crown is going up on the marketplace when this thing releases.
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post #6 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:11 AM
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Hey, man.... I'm with you 100% on that. I'm not a fan of the lottery on quality with the Sanway's but they do seem to be good performers (when they work) and are actually available.

Sanway can do 2ohm, everyone just keeps saying you shouldn't. I don't believe there is one documented mention of someone running 2ohm and it failing in any way. Good luck running 2ohm on the Behringer too and getting anything near those numbers.

You should check out the amps from Speaker Power. Much, much better and available. smile.gif

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post #7 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It's also nothing like the Sanway amps. It's just another digital lightweight with way overstated power output numbers. A dime a dozen. tongue.gif

lol there is no such thing as a digital amp for starters. lots of people have these clones yet no one has properly tested their rms outputs or for the matter even their burst output, on the other hand u can look in the manual of the inukes and find burst / rms numbers that are correct and have been tested to be correct.
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post #8 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:16 AM
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Sigh. 'Digital' as in, switching power supply. No big iron PS.

C'mon guys.
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post #9 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Sigh. 'Digital' as in, switching power supply. No big iron PS.

C'mon guys.

There is no such thing as a digital amp. there is however a thing called a smps which has nothing to do with the amp its self.
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post #10 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:42 AM
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Isn't that what I just said?

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post #11 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It's also nothing like the Sanway amps. It's just another digital lightweight with way overstated power output numbers. A dime a dozen. tongue.gif

+1

Spot on


But, it is nice to see them pushing the limits. I'm suspicious of the actual voltage numbers (let alone current capability) it's capable of, ... and over what kind of period. Then, how robust is it, in the build qulity, etc. They've rolled these SMPS D amps over a period of time, wisely. If they can fully get it together, and there's no reason to believe they can't build anything, at any quality level, they will rule the world ... there I've said it.

I'm not much for integrated DSP, but why not include it? It wouldn't hardly add anything to the price, as there's hardly any expense to these amps parts wise. Ever see inside the Behringer mmfg plants? Amazing, ... simplistic, effective ... Henry Ford would be proud of Uli Behringer. Not for his outright infringement of other'swork, but of his mfg approaches in Behringer City. In addition to the mass market pro-sumer stuff they churn out (2,000 mixers a day!), Uli Behringer owns Midas, whick makes the finest mixing consoles for live work in the world. Klark Teknik, the finest EQ'ing tools for decades, he has hands up and down the scale of affordability in audio products. That kind of buying power can output electronic gear so damn inexpensively. They're likely sourcing parts locally, .. it's a machine.

I'd still like to see a definitive test, on these SMPS/D amps .... and see their capability in the octaves of interest cool.gif

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post #12 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:51 AM
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The clones have been tested and many by owners as well. I can run 12 ineffecient drivers on one clone and get tons of output without clipping. My 10Q clone with dcx EQ cost me $1200. It had much more power than my 4 EP-4000's. The EP_4000 would clip often during heavy bass scenes and the clone never did. The 4 EP's cost $1200 plus need DCX so it was actually more expensive with much less power(especially down low). I guess you get the warranty for the price. If the Inukes can put out some serious power and stable into bridged mode than I would buy it no questions.
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post #13 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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Where was this a month ago. Would have loved to have gone this route as opposed to 3 EP4000's.

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post #14 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 11:58 AM
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I'll take one of these right after I pick up my Peavey IPR7500. biggrin.gif

Seriously though if the power figures are even remotely close, they are stable, and produce <20hz power I would try one out.

Funny enough the specs are similar to the Inuke6K outside of the 2 ohm numbers, correct?
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post #15 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 12:19 PM
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Correct, at 4 ohms it should put out the same amount of power as the iNuke 6000, although with a 'cushion' which may translate into better performance with extreme low frequencies when used as a 4 ohm amp - specs notwithstanding - since it's not being pushed to the limit.
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I'll take one of these right after I pick up my Peavey IPR7500. biggrin.gif

Seriously though if the power figures are even remotely close, they are stable, and produce <20hz power I would try one out.

Funny enough the specs are similar to the Inuke6K outside of the 2 ohm numbers, correct?

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post #16 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 12:21 PM
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Now if only they'd lose the brushed aluminum and just paint them black.
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post #17 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 12:28 PM
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Behringer recommends that the 6000 be ran on a 26amp breaker, so the nu12k is gonna require a 50amp I would think.

ALSO, the nu's don't have PFC and have been measured to spike to unhealthly current levels(over 100amps at 120v, the 12k 400amps? eek.gif )
(Unhealthly that is... for all the OTHER equipment on the transformer pole, not the nu's per-se) eek.gif

Once you get above 20amps, PFC should be REQUIRED to meet electrical standards.
So I pose the question to all the nu3k and 6k users out there: How often have your 'other' devices, TV's and such, needed repairing after install? Anyone?

I'm glad to see Behringer putting the heat on Crown and Gruppen, get those prices down wink.gif
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The clones have been tested and many by owners as well. I can run 12 ineffecient drivers on one clone and get tons of output without clipping. My 10Q clone with dcx EQ cost me $1200. It had much more power than my 4 EP-4000's. The EP_4000 would clip often during heavy bass scenes and the clone never did. The 4 EP's cost $1200 plus need DCX so it was actually more expensive with much less power(especially down low). I guess you get the warranty for the price. If the Inukes can put out some serious power and stable into bridged mode than I would buy it no questions.
Ditto. I noticed the same. I like the 10Q far more than my EP's. Never tried an Nu.
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post #18 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 12:42 PM
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why do they make them look so ugly!
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post #19 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 01:00 PM
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Behringer recommends that the 6000 be ran on a 26amp breaker, so the nu12k is gonna require a 50amp I would think.

it will be 220v so 30 amp would be needed.
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post #20 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 01:24 PM
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I bought an Inuke 6000 over christmas for next to nothing. So far I have used it on a few horn subs and a bass guitar rig. It is a lot of power for the money but it does not seem to have the grunt that my 8002's do. I am not the only one who thinks this either. If anything it seems comparable if not slightly less powerful on the same cabs.Im talking bass only here. The 8002 is 1400w channel at 4 ohms 2000w 2ohms. I wish Behringer would rate the peak voltage and current into various loads. The 8002 is 92v rms 130 v peak per channel. The 6000 is way lighter and one rack space smaller plus shallower and of course cheaper. If the 12000 puts out power similar to a bigger name 6000w amp that is a hell of a deal.

Too bad Peavey/Crest can't seem to get whatever the larger iPR amplifier problems are fixed.( It is not parts availability.)
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post #21 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 02:06 PM
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If it draws double the wattage of the iNuke 6000, that will still only be 1240 watts total, that can still work on a 110 volt line, even a 15 amp circuit. How do you know it will be 220V? That would severely limit its appeal.
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it will be 220v so 30 amp would be needed.

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post #22 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 02:34 PM
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If it draws double the wattage of the iNuke 6000, that will still only be 1240 watts total, that can still work on a 110 volt line, even a 15 amp circuit. How do you know it will be 220V? That would severely limit its appeal.

idk where u got those numbers from

inuke6000 will do 2.2k watts rms into 4 ohm 2200 / 120 = 18 amps. recommended is 24 amps for it. so it can probably do something like 1500 per channel rms.

putting a amp that can do 2x that wattage on 120hz would be pointless for the fact no one uses 60 amp 120hz breakers if they even exist b/c installing 220v is very not hard or all that costly.
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post #23 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

If it draws double the wattage of the iNuke 6000, that will still only be 1240 watts total, that can still work on a 110 volt line, even a 15 amp circuit. How do you know it will be 220V? That would severely limit its appeal.

inuke6000 can only do 620 watts???
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post #24 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 03:09 PM
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The other Nu's had universal PS's don't they?

In any case, you can wire the two hot legs of any two 15amp 120v North American circuits together to get double the voltage(240v-15amps)... so long as they come from both sides of
the service legs. Most people might not realize this. Probably not to "code", but it works just the same as an "officially" installed line. wink.gif
Yep, by taking your voltmeter into your kitchen (just for example) and measuring various 120v hot-wires together, such as the top and bottom sockets plugs or such, you will see it reads 240v. hehe biggrin.gif

note: don't literally wire them together, what I mean is... "power a load with it", such as a universal ps. biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 03:18 PM
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From the manual, of course... (yes, I know it can spike above the rated wattage)

Granted, that figure is for '1/8 rated power' but it's a good hint. If you extrapolate, that would mean an iNuke 6000 would draw 4960 watts at 'full power' which it does not. That would also imply the iNuke 12000 would draw just about 10,000 watts at full power, which is definitely never going to happen. As a matter of perspective, in real-life usage my Crown XTi-2002 is rated at 1/2 the output of the iNuke 6000, but can actually play longer and lower because it is not heat-limited.



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idk where u got those numbers from

inuke6000 will do 2.2k watts rms into 4 ohm 2200 / 120 = 18 amps. recommended is 24 amps for it. so it can probably do something like 1500 per channel rms.

putting a amp that can do 2x that wattage on 120hz would be pointless for the fact no one uses 60 amp 120hz breakers if they even exist b/c installing 220v is very not hard or all that costly.

620 watts, that's the rated 'power consumption' for an iNuke 6000 running at 4 ohms, according to the manual.
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inuke6000 can only do 620 watts???

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post #26 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 03:22 PM
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But...BUT....i can produce a bajillion watts, man!!

Lol. Actually, it states "@ 1/8 Rated Power". wink.gif

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post #27 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 03:24 PM
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post #28 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 03:49 PM
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The iNuke 6000 is rated for a 25 amp circuit. 'Full Power' would be 4960 watts draw, an impossibility. One of the issues with Behringer is it's tough sussing out the truth about the specs. I find it odd that power consumption on an iNuke 6000 at 1/8 duty is significantly lower than 1/8 power on a Crown XTi-4002 - which has a lower maximum RMS rating of 1,600 watts/channel.

I am not in any way trying to put down the iNukes, I've had a NU6000DSP in my system and it was a beast. I'll probably buy the iNuke 12000 because it is an amazing value, but that decision will be much harder to justify if I needed a 220 volt line to run it.

Crown XTi
ac Line current (120 Vac amplifier playing
1/8 power pink noise into 4 ohms per ch):
XTi 1002: 6.8A
XTi 2002: 8.3A
XTi 4002: 10.5A = 1155 watts from the wall, with a max rated RMS of 1,600 watts
XTi 6002: 15.3A

The iNuke states the 6000 will draw 1/2 that much power at 1/8 duty - 620 watts - while also claiming to produce 2,100 watts RMS. Anyhow, I would expect a universal power supply and yes, I would expect the NU12000 to be somewhat limited by how much current it can draw from the wall. Having a dedicated 25+ amp circuit can't hurt.
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@ 1/8th rated right above it

also heres someones test http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

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post #29 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Behringer recommends that the 6000 be ran on a 26amp breaker, so the nu12k is gonna require a 50amp I would think.

ALSO, the nu's don't have PFC and have been measured to spike to unhealthly current levels(over 100amps at 120v, the 12k 400amps? eek.gif )
(Unhealthly that is... for all the OTHER equipment on the transformer pole, not the nu's per-se) eek.gif

Once you get above 20amps, PFC should be REQUIRED to meet electrical standards.
So I pose the question to all the nu3k and 6k users out there: How often have your 'other' devices, TV's and such, needed repairing after install? Anyone?

I'm glad to see Behringer putting the heat on Crown and Gruppen, get those prices down wink.gif

I used an Inuke DSP 3000 on a pair of JTR captivators for close to a year running in 2 ohm stereo. I had zero issues. The amp was fantastic. I could make it power cycle under max load with solid clip lights, such as during the 2012 blind subwoofer meet where it reset three times during the audition because we were at the amps limits -- the reboots are brief - about 3 seconds until it turned back on, but it never made any bad noises out of the subs (7,200 watt peak drivers) and I never noticed any dedregation of quality. I assume this would qualify as the issue you are talking about? I've not had any other damaged components, nor is the Inuke damaged in any way. I feel the Inuke sounds identical to the EP4000, which sounds identical to the Crown XLS-5000 if all amps are kept within their limits and no EQ nor DSP is applied. I'd never be able to tell the difference in amps on the Captivator subs. Now you introduce the Inuke DSP and it's a different story. The Inuke DSP is the best I've personally used or experienced, IMO, and that includes use of the minidsp, and a DCX2496, and if this DSP 12000 comes to light - I'll likely sell my Crown XLS-5000 and pick up the INuke DSP for two ohm stereo use. The DSP excels. The FR capture in my avatar was captured at my listening position using the Inuke DSP. Here is a link with some non dsp FR captures compared to DSP. They are minor changes, but the Inuke DSP is so easy --- what do they say? So easy even a caveman could do it. cool.gif There are six pictures in that album, the first is the EP4000 non eq'ed vs. the Inuke DSP with EQ. No smoothing, the second is my avatar pic with no smoothing, the third is my avatar pic, the next three are the Inuke DSP settings I used to get there.

http://s1191.beta.photobucket.com/user/jvonengeln/media/JTR%20Captivator%20Frequency%20Response%20via%20OmniMic/BeforeEQRed-comparedtoafterOmniMicCalibrationandDSPGreen.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

It is effective, and easy to use. Works in realtime with no 'save' button or upload required. You can set wattage limits, among the other many cool DSP functions. So if your 18" SI driver should only get 600 watts. Set it to get a max of 600 watts. How cool is that? When 600 watts approaches the clip light comes on to indicate you've hit that threshold. I'm using my DSP 3000 now with tactile transducers and the wattage limits are low, so I can set my wattage limit appropriately and know that I'm not exceeding my limits. There may be other amps that do this...I'm just unaware of any -- and certaintly not in the INuke's pricerange. Peavy IPR is a good line, but the DSP is very limited in comparison -- lacking a software interface to your computer alone on the IPR is a fatal flaw.

\I'm currently using the Mic2200 with my XLS-5000 and it works okay - but not nearly as flat frequency response with only two PEQ bands. I've heard/seen some weird issues with the minidsp that may or maynot have been resolved so I'll stay clear of that for now, and the DCX2496 sorely needs an update....serial interface? 1990 visuals, etc. Yikes --- If Behringer just released the DSP as a standalone I would buy it in a flash. In fact I'm going to write them right now and ask them to do that very thing.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

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post #30 of 355 Old 01-28-2013, 04:43 PM
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I don't see how the 6000 needs a 25 amp circuit when Berry told me the ep4k only draws 5 amps with its old iron psw. I bet if you emailed them and asked it would be much less than a 25 amp circuit needed

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