TD12X SEOS Tower Speaker Build - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

This is really turning out to be one hell of a build. The internal bracing and slot port look almost as cool as the black phase plugs on the AE woofers. smile.gif
Inside and out this is a well built/designed tower speaker.
Good Job BH & JB
Chris W

And that was the basic bracing. :P

But yeah, when I saw that phase plug, I was like, "Woah." biggrin.gif

Thanks Chris!
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post #182 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Get back in that theater and go enjoy some movies dammit! lol
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post #183 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

This is really turning out to be one hell of a build. The internal bracing and slot port look almost as cool as the black phase plugs on the AE woofers. smile.gif
Inside and out this is a well built/designed tower speaker.
Good Job BH & JB
Chris W

Thanks! You're building something similar too right?

A ton of people lent a hand in getting these created. I just had the desire to make it happen, and in the best way possible. In no way would any attempt at a cabinet on my own look as good as what JB built. My own attempt at a crossover would pale in comparsion to MTG90's. The whole box dimensions wouldn't have even existed without John's help at AE, nor the woofer itself. Then you got Erich for getting the baffles cut for me, the SEOS, the DNAs. Beastaudio's TD12X speakers for inspiration and crossover upgrades. Everyone else's SEOS builds and measurements for more inspiration. It's a community built speaker smile.gif
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post #184 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Get back in that theater and go enjoy some movies dammit! lol

bwahahhahah. I love you are telling me to go rail on your new babies and not to get them packed and to you. biggrin.gif Your wish is my command!cool.gifcool.gifcool.gif
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post #185 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post

bwahahhahah. I love you are telling me to go rail on your new babies and not to get them packed and to you. biggrin.gif Your wish is my command!cool.gifcool.gifcool.gif

I'm in no rush. Have at em. Not worth it to ship until Monday anyway because of the weekend.

The Khans are well known ultra premium. Comparisons are very cool to have on noticeable differences in this kind of cd/waveguide vs dome approach vs full range/crossed.
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post #186 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 06:39 PM
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And not to mention, I need to get the grills on these bad boys.

Shower and then movie. what to watch....what to watch......
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post #187 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 08:49 PM
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Left channels -


Right channels -


Full -


Same setup as before, Direct mode, no processing, crossed over at 40hz 12db slope.

Seabiscuit - Rosemont scene

TD12X, mid bass galore, impact, more fun, detailed but cloaked, especially in voice range.
Khan's, top end detail greater, low end grunt just under the TD12X, mid bass seemed non existant



Master and Commander - Opening scenes

Khan's, top end detail very clear and precise, imaging quite even, slightly tipped to TD12X, mid bass not as intense as TD12X (more balanced? Placebo from listening to TD12X first?), dynamic but not at the intensity of the TD12X
TD12X dominates midbass clarity, a bit over the top at times, tons of impact and dynamics, again voices seemed slightly cloaked.
lowest octaves just about even in clarity and ability.

Keep in mind..3-way vs 2-way, Alum dome vs CD, slightly higher price tag for Khan's (does that really make a difference?) sealed vs ported, yada yada.....lot's of vast differences in this comparo.

Again....let me know if there is something specific you would like for me to reference! I've got it set up nicely for easy swapping of cables and playing. Wish there was someone to come by and confirm my ears beliefs.
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post #188 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 08:55 PM
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Have you tried the SEOS toe'd-in more?
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post #189 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

Have you tried the SEOS toe'd-in more?

I had the left channel directly on-axis and the right channel within 5-10 degrees on axis.
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post #190 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think I've ever played with a speaker on direct mode. Give me eq and room correction any day. My room and speaker placement options are just god awful. Lol

That distinct dome sound in the high end won't be able to be replicated by the cd I believe, but some eq and an 80-100hz crossover might bring it a little closer to it.

You might have more fun with the TD12M or TD15M. Less xmax, but tighter. Still can hit the 40s, but without the excursion. "Better behaved driver" I think is what John said. Behaving can be boring though. I wanted the gut punch. It practically gives my system 4 subs with double bass and full range enabled. I also have a buttkicker installed. I intend to start an earthquake here in NY.

You know what else is crazy, my surrounds should perform similar. That's just silly. 6 subs. What idiot would use full range surrounds? This guy cool.gif
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post #191 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

It practically gives my system 4 subs with double bass and full range enabled. I also have a buttkicker installed. I intend to start an earthquake here in NY.

Why use double bass? I can't think of many instances where this would be beneficial. In fact, in most cases, it adds more problems. wink.gif Try it by all means, but I really don't think you'll need it.
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And Jake. biggrin.gif

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post #192 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post

detailed but cloaked, especially in voice range.

Are you running these phantom?

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post #193 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

It practically gives my system 4 subs with double bass and full range enabled. I also have a buttkicker installed. I intend to start an earthquake here in NY.

Why use double bass? I can't think of many instances where this would be beneficial. In fact, in most cases, it adds more problems. wink.gif Try it by all means, but I really don't think you'll need it.
Quote:
What idiot would use full range surrounds? This guy cool.gif

And Jake. biggrin.gif

My dual SI sub wasn't needed either. I had a perfectly good Submersive HP that I loved. My experience went from saying "Wow this SubM is amazing" to my neighbors down the street shouting "I hate you, but that is amazing" with the dual 18s. Lol

95% of the time, I'll be crossed at 80hz and no double bass. Its that 5% of the time where I want chaos in my room that I turn on db, full range, bump the buttkicker gain, and just wreak havoc.
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post #194 of 325 Old 05-09-2013, 11:20 PM
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Why not try toe-ing them in @ 45 degrees so that the axis crosses slightly in front of the listening position? Some of the deficiencies may disappear if you set them up to maximize their sound quality. This might help the imaging and the top end. It should increase the size of the sweet spot too. . A little more break-in may help too.smile.gif
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post #195 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post

And that was the basic bracing. :P

But yeah, when I saw that phase plug, I was like, "Woah." biggrin.gif

Thanks Chris!

I always avoided AE speakers as I was one of the minority that hated the silver phase plug (blasphemy), but with the anodized phase plug - well that's a whole new game (to me).

Very nice build, can't wait to see the finish.

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post #196 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajacat View Post

Why not try toe-ing them in @ 45 degrees so that the axis crosses slightly in front of the listening position? Some of the deficiencies may disappear if you set them up to maximize their sound quality. This might help the imaging and the top end. It should increase the size of the sweet spot too. . A little more break-in may help too.smile.gif

Sweet towers build. I also say toe 45deg in. It will widen the stage. If not running phantom center I'd try that since no center matched cab. Xover 60-80Hz. Definitely allow eq, but after that I like "standard" mode playback for minimal dsp processing effects.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #197 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 05:36 AM
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With all of the mid-bass capabilities of the TD12x it would seem a shame to cross them over at 100hz, imho. How low can these TD12x's
go down to before they start to have audible distortion? I would imagine that they could go down to at least 40hz, right? If so, then I would
cross them at 60hz or perahaps even 50hz. Would crossing them over at either 80hz or 100hz not limit the awesome mid-bass that these
babies can perform?
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post #198 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

With all of the mid-bass capabilities of the TD12x it would seem a shame to cross them over at 100hz, imho. How low can these TD12x's
go down to before they start to have audible distortion? I would imagine that they could go down to at least 40hz, right? If so, then I would
cross them at 60hz or perahaps even 50hz. Would crossing them over at either 80hz or 100hz not limit the awesome mid-bass that these
babies can perform?

The box itself is tuned for 32hz. I believe it can hit that without much distortion easily. My subs could probably do it more effortlessly though, and it opens up the speakers to perform better in the higher frequencies not having to deal with the low end. I'll be playing around with it to see what sounds best in room.
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post #199 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I don't think I've ever played with a speaker on direct mode. Give me eq and room correction any day. My room and speaker placement options are just god awful. Lol

That distinct dome sound in the high end won't be able to be replicated by the cd I believe, but some eq and an 80-100hz crossover might bring it a little closer to it.

You might have more fun with the TD12M or TD15M. Less xmax, but tighter. Still can hit the 40s, but without the excursion. "Better behaved driver" I think is what John said. Behaving can be boring though. I wanted the gut punch. It practically gives my system 4 subs with double bass and full range enabled. I also have a buttkicker installed. I intend to start an earthquake here in NY.

You know what else is crazy, my surrounds should perform similar. That's just silly. 6 subs. What idiot would use full range surrounds? This guy cool.gif

ME. I would. biggrin.gif My bookshelves basically are full range.

I used direct to mostly for the sake of level playing feel in comparison and see what they do as designed. Granted the space plays a part in the reproduction, I figure they should ballpark well. I can AutoEQ them and demo the same scenes again. Would be a nice comparison and interesting to see how they get corrected.

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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Are you running these phantom?

Yes, since Vincent told me he would be running them phantom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

My dual SI sub wasn't needed either. I had a perfectly good Submersive HP that I loved. My experience went from saying "Wow this SubM is amazing" to my neighbors down the street shouting "I hate you, but that is amazing" with the dual 18s. Lol

95% of the time, I'll be crossed at 80hz and no double bass. Its that 5% of the time where I want chaos in my room that I turn on db, full range, bump the buttkicker gain, and just wreak havoc.

Joeybutts likes this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajacat View Post

Why not try toe-ing them in @ 45 degrees so that the axis crosses slightly in front of the listening position? Some of the deficiencies may disappear if you set them up to maximize their sound quality. This might help the imaging and the top end. It should increase the size of the sweet spot too. . A little more break-in may help too.smile.gif

Can definitely give it a shot, though the right channel was just about at a 45deg to the screen, but I can set it a touch more to cross my face. I agree on the break in as well. Brand new fresh drivers could use some time to open. I know the other designs I heard needed 50-70 hours to really shine.
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

I always avoided AE speakers as I was one of the minority that hated the silver phase plug (blasphemy), but with the anodized phase plug - well that's a whole new game (to me).

Very nice build, can't wait to see the finish.
Thanks! Love the phase plug too.

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Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

Sweet towers build. I also say toe 45deg in. It will widen the stage. If not running phantom center I'd try that since no center matched cab. Xover 60-80Hz. Definitely allow eq, but after that I like "standard" mode playback for minimal dsp processing effects.

I do need to try crossing at 80 and seeing how that cleans things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

With all of the mid-bass capabilities of the TD12x it would seem a shame to cross them over at 100hz, imho. How low can these TD12x's
go down to before they start to have audible distortion? I would imagine that they could go down to at least 40hz, right? If so, then I would
cross them at 60hz or perahaps even 50hz. Would crossing them over at either 80hz or 100hz not limit the awesome mid-bass that these
babies can perform?

I would NEVER cross these at 100Hz, but I would definitely think somewhere between 60 and 80 would be amazing. I'll run them again tonight at these points.
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post #200 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

The box itself is tuned for 32hz. I believe it can hit that without much distortion easily.

They definitely do. biggrin.gif But I agree.....cross them at least at 60.....
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post #201 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for doing all this comparison testing. You gotta admit its gotta be a little fun for you though. lol. Its fun to play with new toys.
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post #202 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 06:57 AM
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Thanks for doing all this comparison testing. You gotta admit its gotta be a little fun for you though. lol. Its fun to play with new toys.

No problem, and uh.......HELL YES. tongue.gif I think my wife is getting sick of it though since the room is in the middle of soundproofing. biggrin.gif BWHHHAHAHAHA.
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post #203 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 07:03 AM
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Very cool. Love the impression writeup.

It looks like you could toe in the SEOS speakers quite a bit more though unless you have second row seating judging by this picture:



Any measurements at the LP?

Don't waste time reading signatures.....
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post #204 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Very cool. Love the impression writeup.

It looks like you could toe in the SEOS speakers quite a bit more though unless you have second row seating judging by this picture:

Any measurements at the LP?

No, I can definitely toe them in more. I'm sitting in the red chair for listening. No means of measuring. frown.gif
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post #205 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 07:14 AM
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+1, cool.

Love the cave man, reminds me of home. biggrin.gif

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post #206 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 07:17 AM
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Ideally with constant directivity speakers you want them to be toed in enough so that they cross just in front of the listener. This will minimize the wall bounce and make for the largest soundstage.
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post #207 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Any measurements at the LP?

I'll be doing measurements in my room once installed and finished. Just gotta learn how to use REW and the new usb mic.
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post #208 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post

bwahahhahah. I love you are telling me to go rail on your new babies and not to get them packed and to you. biggrin.gif Your wish is my command!cool.gifcool.gifcool.gif

You can rail em all you want, they aren't gonna show signs of struggle. Trust me, I know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

With all of the mid-bass capabilities of the TD12x it would seem a shame to cross them over at 100hz, imho. How low can these TD12x's
go down to before they start to have audible distortion? I would imagine that they could go down to at least 40hz, right? If so, then I would
cross them at 60hz or perahaps even 50hz. Would crossing them over at either 80hz or 100hz not limit the awesome mid-bass that these
babies can perform?

It all depends on your listening habits and what XO point has the most seamless transition between the subs and mains. I love running the SEOS rull range when music listening and then cut the subs on for movies. When I am listening to bass heavy music where I really want the subs though, I usually cross them at 100hz to boost everything below that a crazy amount biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

The box itself is tuned for 32hz. I believe it can hit that without much distortion easily. My subs could probably do it more effortlessly though, and it opens up the speakers to perform better in the higher frequencies not having to deal with the low end. I'll be playing around with it to see what sounds best in room.

Mine tuned to 48hz can get to 20hz flat and with good authority.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #209 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Mine tuned to 48hz can get to 20hz flat and with good authority.

Wow! I expected them to get to 20hz, but not flat. I need to get these measured to see just how low they actually do go.

I should try them on both the XPA-5 and EP4000 too.
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post #210 of 325 Old 05-10-2013, 11:34 AM
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I ran them on a crown xls-1500, xpa-5 and now the sunfire 7401. They seem to work quite well on each of em.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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