Thinking DIY 15" subs - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Looking at going from dual 12” subs to 15” subs. Box dimensions not much bigger than 22” * 22” * 22”.

15” subs looking at: Stereo Integrity HT 15" Subwoofer and the Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofer

Which box size?

Which Amp would be best?

Trying to price on how much the build would be. Any other 15" driver in that price range to consider?

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
What is your budget for everything?

It looks like you are going to need to go sealed based on the box size. I would download Winsisd Pro and do some modeling using different drivers. It is going to come down to budget though.
ack_bk is offline  
post #3 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:16 PM
Senior Member
 
lewdogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Very interested in responses because I'm thinking of doing pretty much the exact same thing... *GRABS POPCORN*
lewdogg is offline  
post #4 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 250

For a 22x22x22 box I would go with the Dayton 15HF, not the HO. Unless you plan to put two subs in one enclosure then go with the HO.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Mrkazador is offline  
post #5 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
No I would prefer two seperate enclosures. For me trying to keep it all under $1,000 best bang for you buck. I don't have the tools for the build either so I might look locally or wanted to verify one of these boxes would work -

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/35-sub-flat-pack.html

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #6 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

For a 22x22x22 box I would go with the Dayton 15HF, not the HO. Unless you plan to put two subs in one enclosure then go with the HO.

What is the difference between the HO & HF?

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #7 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:29 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,757
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by cburbs View Post

What is the difference between the HO & HF?

The HF has a 2-layer voicecoil and a softer suspension. This allows for a more naturally extended frequency response both low and high. However, it requires a larger enclosure compared to the HO version. The HO is primarily designed to fit in small enclosures at the expense of extended low frequency support. For home use and if the space required is allowed, the HF is the obvious choice.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- direct pod link


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #8 of 74 Old 02-01-2013, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
OK the other thing is this room/setup is used 50% movies & 50% music.

What does the Dayton have over the SI?

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #9 of 74 Old 02-02-2013, 08:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,427
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
go big.

a 22" cube (which is about 4.25-4.50 cubic feet internal depending on bracing and so forth) should fit the 18" from dayton or si nicely.

the si has dual voice coils, which offers more flexibility.

the si has a little more excursion.

the dayton has better inductance control.

erich has some flat packs either available or coming shortly that will house either driver at 4 cubic feet net if you want flat packs.

you can read about them both as tested at data-bass.com.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #10 of 74 Old 02-02-2013, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

go big.

a 22" cube (which is about 4.25-4.50 cubic feet internal depending on bracing and so forth) should fit the 18" from dayton or si nicely.

the si has dual voice coils, which offers more flexibility.

the si has a little more excursion.

the dayton has better inductance control.

erich has some flat packs either available or coming shortly that will house either driver at 4 cubic feet net if you want flat packs.

you can read about them both as tested at data-bass.com.

Makes sense to me. You will have to push the budget a bit if you go with dual 18's and buy flat packs. But I would get an amp like this one, which will power both 18" subs:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Behringer-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/17656014
ack_bk is offline  
post #11 of 74 Old 02-02-2013, 12:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,427
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
ack's amp suggestion is the way to go. a ton of folks have used it successfully to power subs around here and that price is crazy low.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #12 of 74 Old 02-03-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
OK so here are two thoughts going with the 15s

Build 1:
Subs: SI 15 do I go with the 15-2 or 15-4?
Boxes: 3.5 cu ft Subwoofer box
Amps: Crown XLS Drivecore amps or Behinger which size amp would be needed

Build 2:
Subs: Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Boxes:3.5 cu ft Subwoofer box
Amps:Crown XLS Drivecore amps Behinger which size amp would be needed

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #13 of 74 Old 02-04-2013, 03:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The HF has a 2-layer voicecoil and a softer suspension. This allows for a more naturally extended frequency response both low and high. However, it requires a larger enclosure compared to the HO version. The HO is primarily designed to fit in small enclosures at the expense of extended low frequency support. For home use and if the space required is allowed, the HF is the obvious choice.

Does Dayton currently have an 18" version of the HF yet? If so, what is it rarely ever mentioned?
Martycool007 is offline  
post #14 of 74 Old 02-04-2013, 11:35 AM
Member
 
Linkwitz Riley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Does Dayton currently have an 18" version of the HF yet? If so, what is it rarely ever mentioned?

I have mentioned this elswwhere on the forum:
For those wondering if Dayton Audio would be producing an "HF" version of the Reference 18, listen to what Rory Buszka, the Product Manager at Dayton told me:

While we offer “HF” variations of our Reference Series subwoofer drivers in 8” thru 15” chassis sizes, we have decided for the time being to not pursue an 18” HF-style driver.

The HF variations of the other Reference Series subwoofers use a thinner aluminum cone, and a 2-layer voice coil instead of a 4-layer. In the case of the 18” frame size, the thinner cone material would result in the material of the 18” driver being under extreme stress. A loudspeaker cone converts an axial force at its apex into tensile stress in an annular direction in the cone material, and cracking of the aluminum would become a concern. As cones become larger, the thickness of the material needs to increase to maintain the same bending stiffness. Also, the 4-layer coil makes more BL product available to the driver, to keep the enclosure size manageable.

When comparing the HF models to the HO models within the Reference Series subwoofer range, one isn’t ‘less musical’ than the other. The HO designation is simply used to designate drivers that perform well in smaller enclosures, while the “HF” designation indicates a driver that performs well in the much larger enclosures common in hi-fi, and with extended frequency response into the midbass range (well above where a subwoofer is typically applied), thanks to the thinner cone and lower moving mass, allowing them to be employed as woofers in multi-way speakers. Considering your application as a high-end hi-fi subwoofer, I think you’d be very pleased with abilities of the 18” RSS460HO-4 driver.
Linkwitz Riley is offline  
post #15 of 74 Old 03-12-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
So if I want to go with the SI 15", two seperate 3 cubic ft boxes -
1) Do I go with the si 15 D2 or D4
2) Which amp should I get

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #16 of 74 Old 03-12-2013, 04:06 PM
Member
 
JasonFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you go with the D2 you can wire it 4ohm stereo. Get the EP4K and run one off of each channel.
JasonFL is offline  
post #17 of 74 Old 03-12-2013, 04:13 PM
Member
 
Jstslamd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Any interest in the new dayton um-15 ultimax ?
Jstslamd is offline  
post #18 of 74 Old 03-13-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonFL View Post

If you go with the D2 you can wire it 4ohm stereo. Get the EP4K and run one off of each channel.

So two D2s and a Behringer Ep4000 -

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #19 of 74 Old 03-28-2013, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Ok So this is what I am thinking of for my build.....

Flatpacks * 2 - http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoof...flat-pack.html
SI 15" D2 * 2
Behringer EP4000

Any suggestions/opinions on this build.

Would these amps work out as well Behringer NU3000 iNUKE 3000 or Behringer EPQ2000 for an amp

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #20 of 74 Old 04-01-2013, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Any recommendations on the amp>

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #21 of 74 Old 04-02-2013, 03:15 PM
Member
 
whitey019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 22
If you are considering an Behringer EP amps, take a look at the Behringer EPX's at musician's friend. I believe they are basically the same as the EP line, but with switching power supplies. Please keep in mind, I've no experience with Behringer amps and I'm not affiliated with MF in any way. The EPX2000 with discount looks extremely tempting and I do not even need an amplifier.
whitey019 is online now  
post #22 of 74 Old 04-02-2013, 04:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
tential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by cburbs View Post

Ok So this is what I am thinking of for my build.....

Flatpacks * 2 - http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoof...flat-pack.html
SI 15" D2 * 2
Behringer EP4000

Any suggestions/opinions on this build.

Would these amps work out as well Behringer NU3000 iNUKE 3000 or Behringer EPQ2000 for an amp

Everyone is recommending the EP4000 because it's best bang for buck..., and I dunno about the EPQ2000. The CrownXLS works as well like you mentioned but your main benefit there is weight. It would drive these drivers now, but wouldn't drive anything that require more if you planned on upgrading to subs that needed more than 500 watts at 4 ohms. The EPQ2000 I dunno much about how that's rated either and people's experiences. I never got around to googling it BUT I do like the specs. Puts out quite a bit of power at a small weight so it's not too bad to move around. However, since most gear stays stationary, and incase you ever do upgrade, that is what makes me lean towards the EP4000. It will handle any task for 350, vs an amplifier that you may have to upgrade later for 300. The extra 50 seems worth it.
Edit: Looking back the Crown XLS1500 was a little expensive from what I needed from it and I could do away with the bright screen so I would honestly not get the Crown XLS series. Seems like the Behringer all around are the best bang for buck. Luckily my Crown XLS1500 only needs to power my mains.
Edit2: EPX2000 can be found for 2000 which is a significant discount from 300 and can be found at musiciansfriend (Don't know reliability of this site). If you don't plan on driving anything larger and don't need to EQ your subs directly from the amp if this puts out even half it's rated power you'll still have more than enough.
tential is offline  
post #23 of 74 Old 04-02-2013, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
cburbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I will have to look into EPX2000 a little more.

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cburbs is online now  
post #24 of 74 Old 04-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,757
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked: 812
I would avoid the 1500 and 2000, especially for subwoofer use.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- direct pod link


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #25 of 74 Old 04-02-2013, 07:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
zora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey019 View Post

If you are considering an Behringer EP amps, take a look at the Behringer EPX's at musician's friend. I believe they are basically the same as the EP line, but with switching power supplies. Please keep in mind, I've no experience with Behringer amps and I'm not affiliated with MF in any way. The EPX2000 with discount looks extremely tempting and I do not even need an amplifier.

The EPX3000 at just over $200 is a heck of a deal (and I would argue, better than the 2000)

JP
zora is offline  
post #26 of 74 Old 04-03-2013, 08:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by zora View Post

The EPX3000 at just over $200 is a heck of a deal (and I would argue, better than the 2000)

JP

Despite already having the EP4000, I may pick one up as a spare. Great price.
bhazard is offline  
post #27 of 74 Old 04-03-2013, 08:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
tential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I would avoid the 1500 and 2000, especially for subwoofer use.
Any specific reasons why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Despite already having the EP4000, I may pick one up as a spare. Great price.

Would like to hear the your results on it for subwoofer use.
tential is offline  
post #28 of 74 Old 04-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,757
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Any specific reasons why?
Would like to hear the your results on it for subwoofer use.

Yes. It measures half as much power for a $50 difference. That is enough right there but... the 1500/2000 lines use an AB type amp configuration and that all fine and great for low power use but for subs it's just waste heat. The 2500/4000 runs type H and that's much more efficient. For $50 you're getting a better amp in every way.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- direct pod link


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #29 of 74 Old 04-03-2013, 10:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
tential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Yes. It measures half as much power for a $50 difference. That is enough right there but... the 1500/2000 lines use an AB type amp configuration and that all fine and great for low power use but for subs it's just waste heat. The 2500/4000 runs type H and that's much more efficient. For $50 you're getting a better amp in every way.

I mean we also have to factor in weight. Just saying, if the lower price/lighter amp can produce at least 80% of it's rated power, it could be useful to certain people who might move gear around a lot and not be able to lift as much. My dad has a bad back and hates to pick up heavy things.

I'd still go with the EP4k, but if the smaller amps could actually drive these subs, even with the added heat, I'd probably consider that because I move my gear around a lot and picking up 400 lbs+ of equipment for me isn't much fun hahaha.
tential is offline  
post #30 of 74 Old 04-03-2013, 11:19 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,757
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked: 812
I'm not talking about the switching PSU EPX models. Just the difference between the ep1500/2000 and the 2500/4000.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- direct pod link


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off