Petition to Behringer: Please create a stand alone, home theater focused, DSP similar to INuke's DSP - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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If you are interested in this type of device please 'sign' this thread, and feel free to provide your specific wishlist for a standalone home theater focused DSP.

I have an INuke DSP 3000 amp and have been very impressed with the DSP. Excellent features including everything from the basics of crossovers and parametric EQ's and delays, to more advanced functions like dynamic EQ and wattage (voltage) limiting on output. The DSP is realtime showing signal and output levels, easy to use vis USB, and has a fantastic graphic interface with visual representation of what the changes you make are doing. It occurred to me that I'd love to use a DSP like this on other amps that I own, including my Crown XLS-5000. Currently my basic dsp options are the minidsp or the dated DCX-2496. I, personally like the Inuke DSP interface better than the other two options. I wrote Behringer and asked them if they had any product like this in the making. I was basically told, great idea, get enough demand and we'll build it.

Well, perhaps here is our chance. Let's provide Behringer some feedback and then we can forward this thread to their support and marketing teams when it builds some steam.

Wishlist

  1. DSP functionality that extends below 20hz (as currently the lower limit with INuke DSP) The lower the better - 5hz, 10hz, 15hz?
  2. RCA input options in addition to XLR or 1/4" jacks (balanced and unbalanced inputs)
  3. A concentration on subwoofer functionality would be desired - perhaps inclusion of a Linkwitz Transform for sealed subwoofer use.
  4. Cost < $200 MSRP -> closer to ~$100 ideal.
  5. The ability to feed the DSP software a .FRD file produced by real time frequency response analyzers like REW and Omnimic and have it auto calculate parametric EQ filters for each use case (with multiple save slots)




Here is the initial e-mail correspondence with Behringer:

Request Type: Pre-Sales

Behringer Support,

Does Behringer plan to release the INuke's DSP in a standalone DSP chasis? There would be a big market for it I think. I would love to have the INuke's DSP in a 1U rack mount unit. Make it happen Behringer! For bonus points allow the DSP to control frequencies down to 5 or 10hz or so for the DIY home theater community. It's a large and growing group and our only option right now for that type of thing is something called the minidsp which is imported from China and has very limited support or documentation. The INuke DSP by comparison is a professional product that is easy to use and effective. Please let me know about the status of a standalone DSP product release. Thanks Jonathan VonEngeln [e-mail deleted]


************************

Dear Jonathan

Thanks for the email. Excellent suggestion! I, personally, would love to see this too. I'm not aware of this particular idea being in development, but I do know that BEHRINGER is always working on new ideas for products. If enough people ask for this, then there's a chance that BEHRINGER will make it, so at this point the best thing I could imagine doing would be to light up the forums with this idea to see if it catches on with the public. If enough people start begging for it, then BEHRINGER will surely have to address it at some point.
Take care and have a good weekend!

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Sam DANIEL
Your MUSIC Group Care Team
care@music-group.com
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post #2 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 01:32 PM
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It would be nice...this approach has been tried before.

There just isn't enough volume in the HT market for specialized gear.

It would be enough if they would simply release a software update that would allow filters down to 10Hz.

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post #3 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 01:35 PM
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Does the Inuke DSP do anything that the mini dsp does not? If so, yeah I'd buy one for sure. I know for one it's way more user friendly.
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post #4 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 01:38 PM
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Behringer is a pro audio company that mass produces products. Selling a few thousand of a certain product will not make them any money.
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post #5 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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If it's based on the existing INuke DSP they'd have very little R&D to recover. Something like this could easily be a no competition market leader with just a few small tailored options for the home theater enthusiast use. There is a hungry market for this type or product --- evident on each of the home theater enthusiast boards. Even if you think it unlikely - if you are interested in such a device - please post your interest...that's what I'd like Behringer to see.

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post #6 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 02:01 PM
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I think it is an awesome idea. Like you said, very little R&D, they already have the software built. If they price it aggressively they could own the market. I also own a 3K DSP and, even with my limited knowledge, found it super easy to use and understand once you played with it. I loved that I could install the app on my computer and toy around with it before I actually configured mine for real.

I don't think Behringer would have much to lose, and lots to gain.
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post #7 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 02:09 PM
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mini dsp does every thing and more.
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post #8 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 02:12 PM
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Like I said, you are welcome to try as we have already gone through this exercise before.

You would have a better chance just getting a software upgrade to the existing products to allow a greater range of filters. But, I don't see that happening either. They don't want to get involved in the HT market.

I would love to see it come to fruition for sure though! smile.gif

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post #9 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

If it's based on the existing INuke DSP they'd have very little R&D to recover. Something like this could easily be a no competition market leader with just a few small tailored options for the home theater enthusiast use. There is a hungry market for this type or product --- evident on each of the home theater enthusiast boards. Even if you think it unlikely - if you are interested in such a device - please post your interest...that's what I'd like Behringer to see.

There is still tooling, marketing, packaging and certification costs.
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post #10 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 02:30 PM
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There is still tooling, marketing, packaging and certification costs.

Exactly, there are way more costs than you think to bring a product to market, even for a large outfit like Behringer.

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post #11 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 03:06 PM
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mini dsp does every thing and more.

is there limiter/compressor app for minidsp? what about dynamic EQ?
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post #12 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 03:09 PM
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if the proposed device was available in the same price range as miniDSP I'd definitely buy it.
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post #13 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 03:14 PM
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if the proposed device was available in the same price range as miniDSP I'd definitely buy it.

My guess is that it would be cheaper.
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post #14 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 03:21 PM
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My guess is that it would be cheaper.

i am not sure. DCX2496 is not that cheap. it has basically the same functionality but more I/O options. i am not sure how much it adds to the cost though
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post #15 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 04:22 PM
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I've got experience with the Behringer iNuke DSP and the MiniDSP. There are things I like a lot about each, but both have issues as currently implemented.

I'd certainly consider a standalone from Behringer if it existed.

It would be far more compelling if the hardware and software had a low frequency limit less than 10 Hz, and it had the ability to serve as a unbalanced to balanced converter.

XLR outs would be nice.
Proper levels on the output would also be nice.
Adjustable phase and delay would be beneficial too.
I guess I should also ask for robust, clip-resistant inputs that would work with a wide range of voltages too??
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post #16 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 04:59 PM
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I may be easier to petition mindsp to add the missing functionality than to get Behringer to build a device. Minidsp just has to do the software to use with all the existing hardware already out there. I personally like my minidsp.

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post #17 of 118 Old 02-02-2013, 05:01 PM
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Behringer only needs software as well. I love my DCX but wish the filters were applicable below 20Hz.

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post #18 of 118 Old 02-03-2013, 09:55 PM
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Maybe it would be an easier sell to Behringer to add or replace the functionality of an existing product with that of the iNuke, like the current version of the BFD.

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post #19 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Behringer only needs software as well. I love my DCX but wish the filters were applicable below 20Hz.

Pretty much. We should focus moreso on the DCX. Update the software and maybe make a version that also allows for RCA connectivity (although I'm okay just using RCA->XLR adapters/cables).

It's really not that much, either. I got all three of mine for <$275 and it's the most robust of the bunch.

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post #20 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 11:28 AM
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One nice thing about the iNuke DSP functionality is that it is easily controllable from the front-panel controls using the front LCD screen- one thing the Mini-DSP doesn't have.

My initial experience with the DSP was that I was pretty impressed. I also liked how finely-tuned the HPF and LPF are possible with all the different options.

I set my sub for a HPF @ 20 Hz ; 6 db/octave
I set my LPF @ 80 Hz, Butterworth, 18 db/octave- but there were many more choices as well. I think I could have done 6, 12, 18, 24, and 48 db/octave.

This DSP would also be great in that it could be used by people with plate amps or commercial subs as well. My friend has a Velodyne sub that somehow doesn't have a LPF on it... he needs something like this.
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post #21 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 12:03 PM
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My annoyances with the minidsp are as follows:

-Voltage output limited to ~2V RMS which is less than my receiver is capable
-No XLR/RCA/ connectors of any kind, having to use phoenix connector
-Have to buy/use my own power supply and wire it in
-Have to hook up my laptop to switch settings / presets

I actually like the software itself and find it very easy to use. Some of these issues are taken care of in the higher models like the 10x10 but then again they are 600 dollars. I think a built in unbalanced to balanced converter would be awesome and would save most from having to buy a RCA to XLR cable or two. If Behringer developed something similar in a "plug and play" package with filters down to ~10hz I will buy it.
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post #22 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

My annoyances with the minidsp are as follows:

-Voltage output limited to ~2V RMS which is less than my receiver is capable
-No XLR/RCA/ connectors of any kind, having to use phoenix connector
-Have to buy/use my own power supply and wire it in
-Have to hook up my laptop to switch settings / presets

I actually like the software itself and find it very easy to use. Some of these issues are taken care of in the higher models like the 10x10 but then again they are 600 dollars. I think a built in unbalanced to balanced converter would be awesome and would save most from having to buy a RCA to XLR cable or two. If Behringer developed something similar in a "plug and play" package with filters down to ~10hz I will buy it.

I have never used the miniDSP, but I always thought the DCX was the superior device. I like using balance connectors whenever possible and I like having the screen which enables you to walk up to it to verify or change settings as well as change between several configs.

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post #23 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 12:43 PM
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I like each and every one of those suggestions, but if you just added the ability to eq to 10hz on the DCX, then I don't see the benefit of another unit that would do basically all the same stuff...

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post #24 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 01:04 PM
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I would certainly be interested. smile.gif

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post #25 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
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I like each and every one of those suggestions, but if you just added the ability to eq to 10hz on the DCX, then I don't see the benefit of another unit that would do basically all the same stuff...
Price. If a two channel device could be had at the cost of BFD it would be my choice.
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post #26 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 01:19 PM
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I would be interested in this product. I personally like the all in one units better than the MiniDSP
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post #27 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 02:15 PM
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I would be game on such a product.
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post #28 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
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I like each and every one of those suggestions, but if you just added the ability to eq to 10hz on the DCX, then I don't see the benefit of another unit that would do basically all the same stuff...

THIS!!!!

Seriously. The DCX is a superor product in all the ways we need and prefer. If only we could get an HT upgrade on the software that allows filters down to 10hz or better yet, 5hz, then we'd have a product that can nearly do it all. Do forget that the DCX has the XLR connector we like and the ability to take and send massive voltage. It's more robust than any like EQ device in this class. That's the product I'd go for it's a realistic endeavor for us to shoot for. Let's ask Behringer for that instead of a whole new product.

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post #29 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
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THIS!!!!

Seriously. The DCX is a superor product in all the ways we need and prefer. If only we could get an HT upgrade on the software that allows filters down to 10hz or better yet, 5hz, then we'd have a product that can nearly do it all. Do forget that the DCX has the XLR connector we like and the ability to take and send massive voltage. It's more robust than any like EQ device in this class. That's the product I'd go for it's a realistic endeavor for us to shoot for. Let's ask Behringer for that instead of a whole new product.

I would concur with this. I was a little disappointed with the noise floor on the particular unit I had, but other than that, it was excellent. 5hz tuning would make this unit a winner. Until then I'll stick with my SMS1. After the latest updates, it's a pretty nice unit for what it does.

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post #30 of 118 Old 02-04-2013, 03:26 PM
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I would like to see a new DCX with an updated pc interface using USB control and the ability to set HPF's and EQ centers down to 10Hz. Increase the onboard memory some while we are at it and I would be happy with it.

A cool feature would be the ability to save developed DCX settings onto a USB and load them directly from the USB drive into another unit as a selectable global settings preset.
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