Originally Posted by Erich H
Why would you consider a change, or what would you be hoping to gain? The only real difference on a SEOS-12 I see between the BMS 4550 and the B&C DE250 is that the 4550 extends higher. But the 360 also extends higher than the DE250. So it's a wash. And I believe all 3 use the same diaphragm.
Oh my, you are not paying attention. The diaphragm is completely different. That is the difference.
I sent Geddes a DNA-360 and he tested it. He was impressed. Even though he said the 360 did indeed extend higher, that's not really worth looking at because very few people can hear around 19khz......and virtually no one can tell the difference of a few decibels up that high. The DNA-360 tests better than the DE250. But I've said many times it's not going to ever be noticed by anyone but a computer microphone. So at some point we should stop looking at 1db differences and just enjoy the speakers we've built.
This is an interesting one to argue. The same argument goes on over high res, 96/24, and one bit SACD. Some say that, of course its impossible to tell the difference.
But, if you hear it, or experience it, you can't not hear it.
I probably can't hear much above 13khz. But I can tell the difference between the BMS 1.5" VC, and the 1.75" VC. So the questions I ask myself are, is there enough hf out of my range that I can pick up via skin? (one theory that I don't subscribe to), or is it that your ears hear it, but it is so masked, and down in amplitude that it's not noticeably there, but subconscious? Used to be my theory. Now I think that music is very complicated. We are not listening to sine waves. So, the speed with which the diaphragm changes directions is important. Even in sub frequencies. So, in mid range, the diaphragm that changes directions fast enough to reproduce 20khz, is going to sound better in the vocal range, when it needs to change directions and replicate complex signals.
Audio is one of the rare industries where people actually want to pay more for something, just to do it.
There is that, in a good dose. But there is something even darker than that.
This is the concept of worth. With some things its easier to quantify. Like cumin vs. paprika. The marked is set by an algorythm of cost of raising, on to getting it to market.
But when you get into smoked Spanish paprika, then, it's noticeably different, but how much more?
When I go to the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, I think half the time the vendors are just making up the prices. They are all over the place, and with no real life correlation to how the speakers sound.
Guitar players have a wide range of instruments to choose from. And the better the guitar player, the more discerning they are on the instrument they choose to play. But at some point, the cost of the guitar is going to reach a point of diminishing returns. And worth will be determined simply by who, if anybody, has enough money and desire to buy a certain instrument.
Noted golf instructor Harvey Penick had an interesting take on getting new clubs. He observed that when you got a new driver, you spent a lot of time hitting it, and concentrated more when you used that club. But eventually, it would become mundane, and the person hitting it would not get as much out of the club. The club didn't deteriorate, it just was not hit with the same care as before. So the thing to do was to go get a new driver.
He escaped this spiral by becoming a teacher, and not playing professionally anymore.
I know a guy who has the same PA he bought in 1976. It is an ugly, bad sounding, Jurassic PA. But to his way of thinking, he bought a PA, and now he will never need to buy another one. His whole life.
That is certainly not me. I am always looking to improve. Not necessarily get bigger. Right now the quest is for more compactness. Easier to set up. I am looking to improve my horns too. Always something to tweak.
A good example is with the Karma Series versus the Fusion Series, or the 350 versus the 360 compression driver. No one has ordered the Karma Series yet, but the 15" model is one heck of a speaker that measures great, and sounds incredible. I've told people that every time they ask, but they always go for the more expensive Fusion-12.......just to be safe.
Yet the Karma-15 is only in the Karma Series based on price......not performance.
I am not familiar with these, but I feel your pain. I sometimes sell old speakers on eBay. If they have those three magic initials, they will go through the roof. JBL. I have sold cones that I had for over 20 years. Beat to crap in untold bar gigs, complete with beer stains. They will sell for more than I paid for them used, two decades ago. And cannot convince the buyers to buy something brand new with a warrantee, with numerous improvements that I can list and demonstrate. "do you have more JBL?"
My friends....we must stop the madness.
I am part of the problem, and solution.
In fact that is a paraphrase of Homer Simpson, "To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to all our problems!"