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post #361 of 1502 Old 04-02-2013, 05:24 AM
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How does the XT1464 differ from the Seos-24? I have a single Radian 951PB that I would like to find a good horn to mate with. I have been looking at the XT1464 with 1.4" Radian 951PB's, but I am not sure how it compares to the Seos-24 and I am also not sure of the price.

He much does the XT1464 cost?
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post #362 of 1502 Old 04-03-2013, 04:33 PM
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This is the only documented build I know of that uses the XT1464. Paul used an 18sound CD with it. He is very accomplished speaker designer and his Raptors got excellent reviews. You could buy 3 of Chop's TD15Ms and use them in 2-ways with these horns. If you read through this build you will see discussions of directivity and power response. They even discuss some of the issues I mentioned in the other thread about a dome 2-way.

It will only give you a 60deg horizontal beamwidth so you would need to make sure that gives you good coverage in your room. Although I haven't used them on paper the XT1464 is a better horn than the XR1464 that is in the Noesis. My speculation is that JTR chose the XR version because it gives them the form factor that their customer base demands (it is about 5" narrower and the horn can be flipped for center horizontal center channel use).

Edit: I just realized I forgot to link to the build: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?35812-The-Raptor-a-10-quot-MTM
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post #363 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Somebody's ready to build some Ubermains biggrin.gif
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post #364 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:19 AM
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Ha! I can't wait to see what your sick mind comes up with chop.

Sorry I haven't been following along since early one. What was finally decided?
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post #365 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha! I can't wait to see what your sick mind comes up with chop.

Sorry I haven't been following along since early one. What was finally decided?

Actually we toned it done a bit..going to be dual TD15M with BMS4594 and seos 24 in the mains (with an adendum to ad dual TD18s to them later). For surrounds, just a single TD15 and the 4594 seos24 combo.
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post #366 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:37 AM
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Sounds like you got some sanity back. That'll probably work out well for you wink.gif
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post #367 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:41 AM
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Actually we toned it done a bit..going to be dual TD15M with BMS4594 and seos 24 in the mains (with an adendum to ad dual TD18s to them later). For surrounds, just a single TD15 and the 4594 seos24 combo.

LOL. Just a single TD15 for the mains. Jake your toned down build still makes most of our over the top builds look like childs play. biggrin.gif

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post #368 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Actually we toned it done a bit..going to be dual TD15M with BMS4594 and seos 24 in the mains (with an adendum to ad dual TD18s to them later). For surrounds, just a single TD15 and the 4594 seos24 combo.

Hmph!! mad.gif

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Sounds like you got some sanity back. That'll probably work out well for you wink.gif

I guess so...

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LOL. Just a single TD15 for the mains. Jake your toned down build still makes most of our over the top builds look like childs play. biggrin.gif

Lol. Re-read that. He has two TD15's per main and a single for his surrounds. wink.gif

Then I shall be your King. cool.gif

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post #369 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Hmph!! mad.gif
I guess so...
Lol. Re-read that. He has two TD15's per main and a single for his surrounds. wink.gif

Then I shall be your King. cool.gif

Lol. I meant to say surround. Apparently I have mains on the brain right now. smile.gif

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post #370 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Hmph!! mad.gif
I guess so...
Lol. Re-read that. He has two TD15's per main and a single for his surrounds. wink.gif

Then I shall be your King. cool.gif


Hahaha..you win biggrin.gif

In all honesty, i just had to simplfy some things for sanity sake. I want to get these up and running, and enjoy them for a while. Once the theater is operational, I can start work on adding dual 18s to each main, and the timeline won't be pushed. I just couldn't cope with the idea that I'd have to wait much longer. My damn house has taken 6 months longer than it was supposed to as it is, so I justed needed some simplicity. It saves me mone on processing and amps for now too.
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post #371 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
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Good plan, bro. No seriously. Just so you can imagine my journey, my uber mains started out as me just wanting to build some 4pi's. Yup. That's it. Then I got super deals on more 2226's and I was like, "oh, let's make a dual 15 4670 clone". Then more 2226's came my way and so on and so on. Just thinking about the cabling and speaker wire is making my brain fry. I'll have about twelve or more channels of active crossover to set up. It's going to be something.

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post #372 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Good plan, bro. No seriously. Just so you can imagine my journey, my uber mains started out as me just wanting to build some 4pi's. Yup. That's it. Then I got super deals on more 2226's and I was like, "oh, let's make a dual 15 4670 clone". Then more 2226's came my way and so on and so on. Just thinking about the cabling and speaker wire is making my brain fry. I'll have about twelve or more channels of active crossover to set up. It's going to be something.

Do I hear a dual processor 22.4 setup in the future? biggrin.gif

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post #373 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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Don't tempt me. tongue.gif

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post #374 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 06:16 PM
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Do I hear a dual processor 22.4 setup in the future? biggrin.gif


Can you help out a newb decode this ? pleasssse
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post #375 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Do I hear a dual processor 22.4 setup in the future? biggrin.gif

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Can you help out a newb decode this ? pleasssse

5.1 setup - 5 speaker channels and 1 subwoofer channel (aka LFE - low frequency effects)

front speakers (aka LCR)
  • left front (L)
  • center channel (C)
  • right front (R)
side speakers
  • left side (LS)
  • right side (RS)

7.1 setup - adds two back speakers (left (LB) and right (RB))

11.1 setup - adds front 'height' speakers (LH & RH) and wide speakers (LW & RW)

11.2 setup - adds another LFE channel (currently the max available AFAIK)

22.4 setup - double the equipment of 11.2 - which would still be underwhelming compared to what this build will result in... biggrin.gif

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post #376 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 09:55 PM
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Just doubling the amount of speakers in a room, even with a 2nd AVR, would add nothing. How are the new vectors created?

No. You add new vectors (points of reference IE: channels but non-discrete) by using matrix decoders. It's been done very much before 7.1 was mainstream. I did this back in 2000 to make a 6.1 set up before that was even in the conscious of the mainstream AV public minds.

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post #377 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Just doubling the amount of speakers in a room, even with a 2nd AVR, would add nothing. How are the new vectors created?

No. You add new vectors (points of reference IE: channels but non-discrete) by using matrix decoders. It's been done very much before 7.1 was mainstream. I did this back in 2000 to make a 6.1 set up before that was even in the conscious of the mainstream AV public minds.

And he called it the M45. biggrin.gif

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post #378 of 1502 Old 04-10-2013, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Just doubling the amount of speakers in a room, even with a 2nd AVR, would add nothing. How are the new vectors created?

No. You add new vectors (points of reference IE: channels but non-discrete) by using matrix decoders. It's been done very much before 7.1 was mainstream. I did this back in 2000 to make a 6.1 set up before that was even in the conscious of the mainstream AV public minds.
Pioneer......lol.

PM sent Scott.

I look forward to your SEOS24 and 4954. I wanted to get a pair of these but could not for now. I had a dual 15" horn design that played 800hz nicely depending on the woofers used but the highs were the hardest part to figure. Then Erich did his magic and there are options and then the group buy.........well for now I will watch your thread.
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post #379 of 1502 Old 04-11-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer......lol.

PM sent Scott.

I look forward to your SEOS24 and 4954. I wanted to get a pair of these but could not for now. I had a dual 15" horn design that played 800hz nicely depending on the woofers used but the highs were the hardest part to figure. Then Erich did his magic and there are options and then the group buy.........well for now I will watch your thread.

Thanks, I guess I will guinea pig a bit with the combo and see how they work together at lower xover points, etc. should be good though. I should have the seos24s in hand soon enough, so thet magic can start biggrin.gif. I have my flat packs all cut and ready to go, but I don't want to start assembly unitl I have the horns because I want to make sure the bracing is optimal and functional, taking no chances on doing now, thinking it's right and then finding out I was off with a measurement once they come.
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post #380 of 1502 Old 04-13-2013, 05:41 AM
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The pallet of horns and waveguides is suppose to be at the local airport. We just have to wait for customs to clear it. If all goes well, I will be able to pick it up next week.
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post #381 of 1502 Old 04-13-2013, 06:59 AM
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Chop or Erich what is the weight of the SEOS 24?
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post #382 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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....And then there were four cool.gif

Mark Seaton is a bad influence:D...though with his help and the, yet again revised plan, I think my wall of mains will be just about all an audio enthusiast could ask for. New direction, four sealed TD15M's aligned vertically and coupled with the SEOS24/4594 combo. Mark is a very generous with his knowledge and willingness to help the diy guys too. It makes you realize how little you know once you talk with him or Jeff for a while.

It only makes sense to up the anty a bit again with the above, and run them active. I think this will be the best chance at top performance for sure.
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post #383 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Hmph!! mad.gif
I guess so...
Lol. Re-read that. He has two TD15's per main and a single for his surrounds. wink.gif

Then I shall be your King. cool.gif

I challange you to a duel biggrin.gif

My sanity has been shelved once again.
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post #384 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Chop or Erich what is the weight of the SEOS 24?

Sorry Chrap, I don't know...Erich may pop in and give that answer
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post #385 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 08:09 AM
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The pallet hasn't arrived yet, so I don't know how much they weigh.


Chop, My main goal with a design is to use two 12" woofers under a single SEOS-24. Your design sounds interesting. Hopefully you can also get the passive crossover figured out as well. I'm not sure I understand the reason for four 15's, but should be neat to see a crazy man at work. biggrin.gif
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post #386 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The pallet hasn't arrived yet, so I don't know how much they weigh.


Chop, My main goal with a design is to use two 12" woofers under a single SEOS-24. Your design sounds interesting. Hopefully you can also get the passive crossover figured out as well. I'm not sure I understand the reason for four 15's, but should be neat to see a crazy man at work. biggrin.gif

I think your plan is a great one. It will be replicable, and probably have more output and finese than 90% of people will ever want.

Mark is the one who convinced me to go with four again, and in a sealed alignment, for the ability to extend really low with high output. I REALLY, REALLY enjoyed the CAt12s running full range with no subs. Basically, he suggested that four 15s could provide that and then some...room dependant of course, as I will be trying to fill a big space. I think they will prove very usefull for BluRay concert party nights. Plus, 4 15s in the mains was just interesting enough to get Mark to want to be involved biggrin.gif

I'm sure that once we lock down (for the most part, as I'm sure there will be tinkering) the active xover details, we can translate to passives for the masses. I don't know that the passives will offer the same last bit of performance, I'm sure they won't, but should get someone wanting to replicate the build fairly close with passives.
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post #387 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 10:40 AM
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Erich are all the SEOS's spoken for? And if so what is the best way to get in on the next order?
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post #388 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 02:27 PM
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A build like this shouldn't be an "assemble and plug it in" kind of kit. It's to big and complex that it requires integration with the room. Your active settings would not work for anyone except you. If someone wants dsp settings for the same thing in their room, they would have to measure their room. (Talking about the woofer to mid cross over assumed to be around 500hz). Also, at this league, everyone is going to have a different take on fitting it to their room. In the corner, away from boundaries. False wall continuous baffle, etc.

The idea of 2x12 under a seos24 would be doable no problem. Still though, some appreciation for the room would be required in any dsp settings below ~300hz.
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post #389 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 02:29 PM
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Erich. Once the off axis character of the seos24 is known, the woofer spacing and cross over should be juggled to match that.
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post #390 of 1502 Old 04-14-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Tux, I didn't mean to imply that it would be plug and play perfect. I just thought that with some good r&d we could make it replicable passively to some extent , just like buying a set of speakers and putting them in ur room. I am certainly doing all the extra to go beyond that, and all my other thoughts are certainly speculative at this point. This is also why I've enlisted the help of Mark and will also have him out to the theater for the integration process.
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