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post #1441 of 1538 Old 02-08-2014, 07:31 PM
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He's talking about 4 x 12 drivers. Two above and two below.

Chop, why not integrate all 4 x 15s at once? Seems like twice the work.
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post #1442 of 1538 Old 02-08-2014, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

does anybody know which content goes to which speaker in systems with 5 front mains, such as the one shown here:

Originally the Academy had the left extra and right extra installed to be able to play films with Sonys SDDS 8 channel film audio format. Now it's for Atmos I believe as they use a 5 channel stage. Some Dolby processors had a setting that would matrix content by mixing center and right or center and left content into those two extras. Not in use usually tho unless Atmos mix

JBL Pro Cinema
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post #1443 of 1538 Old 02-08-2014, 08:07 PM
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i wonder if something like this might radiate pretty close to a 24" woofer.


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post #1444 of 1538 Old 02-09-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

He's talking about 4 x 12 drivers. Two above and two below.

Chop, why not integrate all 4 x 15s at once? Seems like twice the work.

It could be that we do that, my thought was just that I may not need the quads and it would save me about $1800 if I am happy with the output of the duals and then add quads down the road. Ahhhh, who am I kidding biggrin.gif
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post #1445 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Update!! Mini's are all here and work can begin soon...bad news, my contractor just cost me about $20k and a few weeks time mad.gifmad.gifmad.gif

At this point, I can't even lose my cool because it's been such an ordeal, If I do, I'm likely to completely spin out. This causes a change to my subwoofer plan as that cash would have alloted for the IB space to be constructed and is now gone.....silver lining, have been talking with Nick and am getting 8 of the Si 24zzz biggrin.gif I have to take these silver linings and smile because if I dwelled on the amount of money this contractor cost me, or the fact that it took them 2 years to build my house I'd fall apart. I digress, progress will now commence!
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post #1446 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 10:14 AM
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Sorry chop. I've witnessed contractors get screwed by home builders and builders get screwed by contractors quite a few times. Its part of the business without getting into details.

Good news is it sounds like you are happy with the actual house and you aren't falling apart.

8 24s will be a lot of displacement!!! Look forward to how you implement them into the room!
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post #1447 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Sorry chop. I've witnessed contractors get screwed by home builders and builders get screwed by contractors quite a few times. Its part of the business without getting into details.

Good news is it sounds like you are happy with the actual house and you aren't falling apart.

8 24s will be a lot of displacement!!! Look forward to how you implement them into the room!

Yeah, it can happen in any combination I guess. It just sux because I have this attitude that if I'm overly cool with everyone and the nice, easy going guy, things will always work out better. In this situation, by the time I realized I needed to let that go and start kicking a$$, it was too late. They always had just a bit of leverage on me and were just ahead of me on the cards so to speak. It's so hard to monitor the relationship between a home builder and the subs...you never know who's story is straight, but when the supply house starts saying they are shipping because the builder never paid for the last order....ahhhhhhh

The house is great, better than anything I ever though I'd have. There were some design changes I'd make, but it's always easier to see after the fact. Every once in a while I do fall apart, but it happens and like five minutes later I'm fine....guess it's one of the blessings of the ADD biggrin.gif
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post #1448 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 05:52 PM
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Keep it together bro! We are all counting on you and so are all your peeps in your new house!

Keep it in perspective! Also, I had a very similar ordeal and it is amazing what $500 and a letter from a law firm with at least three names in the title can do to a contractors interest in helping you.
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post #1449 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

Keep it together bro! We are all counting on you and so are all your peeps in your new house!

Keep it in perspective! Also, I had a very similar ordeal and it is amazing what $500 and a letter from a law firm with at least three names in the title can do to a contractors interest in helping you.

Thanks man! It does give you perspective, funny how that works. The only issue with the law firm is when the contractor is out of biz and takes off on everyone...ordinarily, you're 100% right
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post #1450 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 07:59 PM
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Chop, just out of curiosity, did you use a real contractor or a sub contractor. I've been in this business for 18 years and don't know a single general contractor that "could" takeoff as they all have houses for sale and of their own. There isn't a such thing as a homeless (house not for sale/being built) contractor as that's their only source of making money.
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post #1451 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Chop, just out of curiosity, did you use a real contractor or a sub contractor. I've been in this business for 18 years and don't know a single general contractor that "could" takeoff as they all have houses for sale and of their own. There isn't a such thing as a homeless (house not for sale/being built) contractor as that's their only source of making money.

Real contractor dude...they closed up shop..still "here" , but llc closed and family own the home they live in. I only know because I knew them for a long time and they just tried to push too hard, too fast and get too big....they weren't ready. The subs are where it went bad. When the subs first showed up for each area, things were good, lien waivers were there, etc. When they couldn't push those subs around, new ones would show, without me knowing they were new, just being told they were employees of the old ones coming to work. Anyway, it's over now and I'm getting ready to move in, just cost me extra dough and frustration.
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post #1452 of 1538 Old 02-27-2014, 11:44 PM
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Chop, I'm gonna pm you since this is my occupation. Turned gen contractor at age 17 and know these individuals like back of hand. If you truly got screwed, (not made changes that weren't in contract) there are easy courses of action to get your money back.

Contractors RARELY change crews on jobs as they should be busy on the other job.

You may have fell victim of allowing an unestablished contractor to build your place but that would be the only way you can't get your money back since they truly just quit the business.
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post #1453 of 1538 Old 02-28-2014, 12:14 AM
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Just gotta ask even tho other crews were brought into the subject....All the rock blasting/digging/chipping/hammering wasn't part of the extra cost complaints from the GC was it? Just remembered you bringing up the trouble the build was going through with the terrain. That is a hidden section in most contracts that raises prices significantly is all. And you mentioned "subs" is where it went wrong. Subs aren't needed for a general contractor as he has his own crews. He would bring in specialist for concrete walls so that's why I bring it up.
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post #1454 of 1538 Old 02-28-2014, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Just gotta ask even tho other crews were brought into the subject....All the rock blasting/digging/chipping/hammering wasn't part of the extra cost complaints from the GC was it? Just remembered you bringing up the trouble the build was going through with the terrain. That is a hidden section in most contracts that raises prices significantly is all. And you mentioned "subs" is where it went wrong. Subs aren't needed for a general contractor as he has his own crews. He would bring in specialist for concrete walls so that's why I bring it up.

Nothing at all to do with it...I wouldn't place that on anyone else, as its a change of job scope. I did incur expenses there, but they can't be held responsible for that as the contract clearly stated any rock, etc was not part of the cost....I do think a prudent contractor would xray though and know what's coming, at least to some extent. The problem became having a certain amount of money to do a job, being told it could be done for that and then make changes to written contract after the fact with lots of copy, cut and paste of signatures, estimates etc. Again, something that can be fought legally, but does little for me except cost me even more money. When the GC is paid and the subs aren't, it fell on me to step in with money or not get it finished.
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post #1455 of 1538 Old 02-28-2014, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyway, now that the minid's are here, I hoping to start work on the SEOSR again very soon. It will be a redesign on the coax going full active (sorry Matt, I know the other design took some time redface.gif ) but I think it's really the best way to insure that we get this thing perfect. Between the crown amps dsp and the stupid RDL boxes, setting levels, etc there was just no way to optimize them. Now going directly to the mini's for processing and just using the Crowns for power, I think we can nail it.
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post #1456 of 1538 Old 03-01-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Anyway, now that the minid's are here, I hoping to start work on the SEOSR again very soon. It will be a redesign on the coax going full active (sorry Matt, I know the other design took some time redface.gif ) but I think it's really the best way to insure that we get this thing perfect. Between the crown amps dsp and the stupid RDL boxes, setting levels, etc there was just no way to optimize them. Now going directly to the mini's for processing and just using the Crowns for power, I think we can nail it.

Which MiniDsp are you using? I am assuming either three of the balanced 2 by 4's or a 10x10hd? Also, which amps did you decide to go with? If your Crown amps have a built in Dsp, why are you using the MiniDsp instead of using the amps for that purpose?

I just want to give you props because this thread has been one of the best that I have ever experienced! I am sorry to hear about your experience with the contractor!
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post #1457 of 1538 Old 03-01-2014, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Marty! I have three of the 2 x 4 with 4 way plug ins. The crown dsi dsp lacks just a bit and using them in conjunction with the d/A's was a pain matching etc.
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post #1458 of 1538 Old 03-02-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Thanks Marty! I have three of the 2 x 4 with 4 way plug ins. The crown dsi dsp lacks just a bit and using them in conjunction with the d/A's was a pain matching etc.

Are you going to be setting up the active MiniDsp crossovers yourself, or, is Matt doing that?
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post #1459 of 1538 Old 03-02-2014, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you going to be setting up the active MiniDsp crossovers yourself, or, is Matt doing that?

I'm sure I could make them work, and will try for sure, but Matt can make them sing biggrin.gif
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post #1460 of 1538 Old 03-02-2014, 11:17 AM
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I've always thought this was the easiest approach but kept my 2cents to myself as I'm far from a speaker builder. Just makes sense from a minimalist standpoint. And the minidsps seem to be great devices. Some talk about the bitrate of hz or whatever but I have no idea how that affects what the speakers do.
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post #1461 of 1538 Old 04-09-2014, 07:54 AM
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Hey all-

 

On my own little SEOS24 journey and haven't been over to this thread in a while.  Did Face come over here yet and show off his cardioid loaded TD15M/24's?  I think it's still a work in progress but IMO this is looking like an interesting way to shoot for directivity control down to Schroeder...

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/23208-system-pictures-description-242.html#post3750041

 

This pic doesn't really show the boxes, but it's a box with a lot of holes in the sides, I think he has them stuffed with ultratouch.

 

I'm about ready to start some testing with some cardioid loaded 10's (I figure if directivity comes from the box loading, why not minimize C2C), I've been rolling over and over in my mind what makes the cardioid boxes tick, and I think the biggest issue, especially for the ~100-500 range needed for this purpose is that the gas flow resistivity needs to be quite a bit higher than off the shelf insulation products (somewhere around 100,000 mks rayls/m @ 2" is my running guess from messing with the porous absorber calculator).  I think that when you have a MDF box with holes and material attached over the holes it increases the effective GFR (based on my very scientific "blow into it" test! mmmm MDF dust is tasty) compared to the material in free space...

 

One interesting option that is available is rigid commercial pipe insulation, conveniently already sized in nominal driver sizes (just build some sort of frame/baffle).  Or maybe sonotube with holes cut in it and material glued over the holes...

 

Anyway just thought I would share for those interested, here are the boxes I'm going to start testing soon (have no idea if they will need more holes or not).  I'm using denim carpet insulation stapled over the holes, hope to have some polars in the near future...

LTD02 and Reddig like this.
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post #1462 of 1538 Old 04-09-2014, 09:28 AM
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Well, there goes my afternoon. I'll be off learning about cardioid loading.

Looks really interesting. Thanks for sharing Ryan!
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post #1463 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, on the road to rebuilding these beasts...sorry for using trademarked name Brandon biggrin.gif

I have new cut sheets all set up and just need to source a new building materials house. I'm planning the rebuild basically just because I started out taking my time on these and when life got in the way I just slapped them together to finish for the Gorilla GTG of Jan 2014. I have a new, more efficient bracing design laid out that should brace them better and actually take less effort and material. I'd like to get the flat packs cut for these and all 8 of the surrounds, as well as the future height channels, all at once. I figure I'll need 10 sheets for the SEOSR mains (4 woofer version) and another 10 sheets for the rest of the smaller speakers....I don't even want to think about how many sheets I'll need for the SI24 Mega sub build eek.gif

My dilemma, as I said above, is that I need a new material supplier. The supplier I've been using has the 11ply stuff and I thought it was good but I've since left a few cut pieces in the garage and when I went out there today to see how they have held up....the voids between the plys seem larger and have definitely allowed the other layers to bend and compress, making for a "spungy" feel. I thought maybe it was just from being out in the garage for the last couple of months, but I went to the lumber yard today and all their 11ply looks the same. I have done searches all around CT and can't find real 13 ply BB...anyone know of a supply house that will ship in the north east??
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post #1464 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 06:58 PM
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I know they ship at least from NYC to the East end: http://www.roberts-plywood.com/

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post #1465 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Face! I just checked out the website and will give those guys a call this week. Even if I can get someone to come to the CT border I'd be in great shape.
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Ever thought about have some one CNC your panels for you. Then AIY when time permits?

I know its all about DIY here but time is time. So sometimes its better, if you can afford it, to have them CNC'd. Just an option. Seems like there are plenty here in the know that could make you a G code file for you and then you could take that to the CNC guys for an easy quote. Wait doesnt Gorilla have a CNC?

Anyways I've said too much let me go back to the bench and continue watching the game from there.biggrin.gif
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post #1467 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ever thought about have some one CNC your panels for you. Then AIY when time permits?

I know its all about DIY here but time is time. So sometimes its better, if you can afford it, to have them CNC'd. Just an option. Seems like there are plenty here in the know that could make you a G code file for you and then you could take that to the CNC guys for an easy quote. Wait doesnt Gorilla have a CNC?

Anyways I've said too much let me go back to the bench and continue watching the game from there.biggrin.gif

Yeah, Andrew may end up running he baffles for me on the CNC, but with my new shop saw, cutting everything else is really pretty easy, and with regard to bracing, I template and fit as I go so it's almost easier for me to do it here.

BTW, my two buddy's that are over for the Pac-Man vs Bradley part 2 fight are laughing their a$$es of at me for posting on AVS while where watching the fights..."you got a speaker problem dude" is the last statement that was made biggrin.gif
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post #1468 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 09:42 PM
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or perhaps something like this: https://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=105

here is the bb:
http://www.woodcraft.com/category/3/1001038/1005311/Plywood.aspx?Thickness=3/4%22

looks like they offer classes and is some form of a club. maybe they can order an entire "bundle" or whatever one full unit of ply is called. eek.gif

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post #1469 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 09:47 PM
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or perhaps something like this: https://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=105

?

so expensive i pay $45 for 5x5 of Baltic birch ...
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post #1470 of 1538 Old 04-12-2014, 09:56 PM
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I was getting 4x8 sheets of 13 ply for $70 at Lowes

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