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post #1801 of 1832 Old 03-25-2015, 05:38 PM
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What surrounds are you using? I get lots of info from my surrounds and one time I blew a speaker back there. I do listen at reference all the time. Once I added mains for surrounds the surrounds came alive.
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post #1802 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Just build a baffle wall all around including the ceiling so you can have in wall SEOSR everywhere!
You know that sounds like something I'd do! I'd really love to figure out a way to match the surrounds from a capability standpoint. I won't go back into the matching vs not matching timbre, but as more movies are mixed 3d sound, I would think the content would be more taxing on the surrounds...I mean, to make the effect of a jet flying overhead real, or things of that nature, we need some horsepower. I think a waveguide is the wrong choice for most of my channels except the lcr though, so finding a coax, or I gues it would basically be a triax at this point, with an 8 or 10" woofer and the 4594 behind it, would be the next best thing. outside of that, I think many of the 8-12" coaxs will mate well and have the range to keep up with soundtracks..not keep up witht he seosr of course.

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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Great to see such a no holds bar system coming to fruition. I just wish that more movies used surrounds effectively. I still only have 5.1 cuz it sounds great but most info coming out of surrounds is still ambient. Some action films have crashes going from front to back but I find it rare for me to finish a movie and say the surrounds were really active. The latest hobbit movie does. It seems the minority. I am hoping that with the new audio formats that they use surrounds better and I will get two more speakers.

Thanks! I'm excited and releaved that I've come to my senses and decided to take the time and do these right.

I hear ya on surrounds, but the hope is that with the new formats, more and more mixes will make them stand out
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post #1803 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
What surrounds are you using? I get lots of info from my surrounds and one time I blew a speaker back there. I do listen at reference all the time. Once I added mains for surrounds the surrounds came alive.
Still not positive...leaning toward something like the JBL SCS series atm. When the kids aren't with me, I'm a reference level listener as well, but in my HT, that will be half the time or so at most.
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post #1804 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1805 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 11:57 AM
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Is it me or do I see top speakers and side speakers?

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post #1806 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Starkrace View Post
I don't know when the final spec will be announced but extrapolating based on rumors and the CES setup it stands to reason the layout follows 14 base layers and 13 height layers for a total of 27 channels.

14 Main Channels
All 30 degrees apart and an additional LR Center which is placed 15 degrees to the left and right of the center channel.

Starting from center and going clockwise:
FC (0º), FRc (15º) , FR (30º), RWide(60º), RSurr (90º), RSback (120º), RRear (150º), CenterRear(180º), LRear(210º), LSback (240º) , LSurr (270º), LWide(300º), FL (330º), FLc (345º)

13 Height Channels
Duplicating 12 speakers listed above, removing LR Center, and placing them at a 30 degree elevation above the mains. Add in a single top overhead speaker ala Auro "Voice of God"

Effectively creating a hemisphere of sound around the MLP.

I wonder how accurate that is ^ (regarding DTS-X)

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post #1807 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Man, I am anxious to see how it all shakes out....I am really thinking of taking the plan to the point of foundation, framing etc now and having Shawn hold off on the column and ceiling speaker fixtures until this comes out more clear. I figure I'll be into August by the time the foudation is poured, the framing, siding, roofing etc are done, build risers, stage, drywall etc, so I'll have plenty to get done and maybe DTS changes optimal column placement, ceiling speaker placement..who knows
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post #1808 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 01:43 PM
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If you're really concerned about that then just wait a few more weeks for the official announcement from DTS about DTS:X.

It was supposed to be this month but it looks like it got pushed into April.


That said, DTS has noted that their layout will be fully compatible with "other immersive surround formats".

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post #1809 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
You know that sounds like something I'd do! I'd really love to figure out a way to match the surrounds from a capability standpoint. I won't go back into the matching vs not matching timbre, but as more movies are mixed 3d sound, I would think the content would be more taxing on the surrounds...I mean, to make the effect of a jet flying overhead real, or things of that nature, we need some horsepower. I think a waveguide is the wrong choice for most of my channels except the lcr though, so finding a coax, or I gues it would basically be a triax at this point, with an 8 or 10" woofer and the 4594 behind it, would be the next best thing. outside of that, I think many of the 8-12" coaxs will mate well and have the range to keep up with soundtracks..not keep up witht he seosr of course.




Thanks! I'm excited and releaved that I've come to my senses and decided to take the time and do these right.

I hear ya on surrounds, but the hope is that with the new formats, more and more mixes will make them stand out

This is true and already more film mixers are taking advantage of "full range" surrounds.

However, please know that in the cinema world bass management is a whole new thing. At home we have already had "full range" surrounds because of it so there is little benefit because of these new formats.

But if you want, it won't hurt anything..... but your wallet.

I'd say if you want a speaker in a surround sound system to be "full range" enough, go to 40hz. Think something like the Pi4 or Sentinel. It would be easier and more practical to get a high power coax that can do a solid 80hz and just have it bass managed like any speaker would.

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post #1810 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
Man, I am anxious to see how it all shakes out....I am really thinking of taking the plan to the point of foundation, framing etc now and having Shawn hold off on the column and ceiling speaker fixtures until this comes out more clear. I figure I'll be into August by the time the foudation is poured, the framing, siding, roofing etc are done, build risers, stage, drywall etc, so I'll have plenty to get done and maybe DTS changes optimal column placement, ceiling speaker placement..who knows
You can go ahead and pour. The columns can be moved internally, they are non structural. Plan something on the ceiling like a coffered ceiling, it gives you easy way to add or move overhead speakers now and later. By the time you get around for it to matter, you'll have the info you need.

From everything I am seeing it seems like DTS-X will be a cut above ATMOS in that it doesn't rely on one single speaker layout and it's more format agnostic. The mixers will have the ability to mix in any layout of format they want, and there can even be a metadata flag in the signal that tells the AVR which is which. I would imagine the mapping of channels and stuff will be available too so it will work on 11.2 set up, a 7.4.4 Atmos set up, or a 9.6.6 DTS X set up etc... You will be ok.

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post #1811 of 1832 Old 03-26-2015, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been searching around looking at other surround options and exploring other BMS options t build. They have a number of triaxials ,but I'm trying to find one that uses 4594 as the coax behind the woofer..they have a couple of 12s that might, but I have to find out tomorrow. I'm not as concerned for the surrounds, but if it works great...the biggest thing I'm thinking of are possible DTS configs and matching height and wide speakers with the lcr as closely as possible without build seosrs for those channels.


Oh yeah, by new 24" sinks showed up today
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post #1812 of 1832 Old 03-27-2015, 12:22 PM
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http://www.parts-express.com/bc-15hc...egree--294-579


http://www.parts-express.com/bc-15cx...egree--294-578

Could make decent surrounds?

Would run active nice too. (crossover not included)

I have no clue honestly- no experience with them. They just caught my eye.

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post #1813 of 1832 Old 03-29-2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
You can go ahead and pour. The columns can be moved internally, they are non structural. Plan something on the ceiling like a coffered ceiling, it gives you easy way to add or move overhead speakers now and later. By the time you get around for it to matter, you'll have the info you need.

From everything I am seeing it seems like DTS-X will be a cut above ATMOS in that it doesn't rely on one single speaker layout and it's more format agnostic. The mixers will have the ability to mix in any layout of format they want, and there can even be a metadata flag in the signal that tells the AVR which is which. I would imagine the mapping of channels and stuff will be available too so it will work on 11.2 set up, a 7.4.4 Atmos set up, or a 9.6.6 DTS X set up etc... You will be ok.
The rollout of DTS:X hardware sure sucks...little to no information just a lot of pretty pictures and expensive demos. Promised info for March seems to be pushed back. Hey DTS just give us some dam# information.

I cant wait to see how this works out in the end! Easy bet it wil be AWESOME! !!!!

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post #1814 of 1832 Old 03-30-2015, 06:26 AM
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It sounds like it's supports a few different layouts including the Dolby Atmos 7.4.4 standard. Should be cool.
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post #1815 of 1832 Old 04-03-2015, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Nothing major to report here yet...still waiting on parts to show, but did make one change this time. Going to order some of the lab gruppen ipd amps for this go around. They have great dsp and more than enough power to run the seosr and all the surrounds. A stack of 13 should look nice in the equipment room
Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll be able to get the new cabinets cut and assembly going. The more of that stuff I have done, the faster it will push me to get the room finished.

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post #1816 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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SEOSR 2.0.................coming soon to AVS
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Is this still a thing?




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post #1818 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 10:42 AM
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i bet he likes the 5732 more :-)~ (even before realizing the jbl active tunings can be improved upon when not requiring listening distances of 75 feet). just a hunch...

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post #1819 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this still a thing?



Hahaha...I'm sure I'm gonna get some much deserved poking about this. I'm easily swayed, what can I say i've got someone I trust helping me out and their advise comes with much more experience than I, so we'll see

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i bet he likes the 5732 more :-)~ (even before realizing the jbl active tunings can be improved upon when not requiring listening distances of 75 feet). just a hunch...
You're saying you think I'd like the 5732 better than anything else?? Even though they would be less than optimal positions etc? The idea behind the 2.0 is sort of going on the premise to use top quality components, correct placement of them with regard to the listening room I'll have them in and replicate the capabilities of something like the 5732, but tailored to fit the room better. I'm not educated enough to know better, but so far Dennis, Shawn and many more have said those 5732 will just not work right....is your opinion otherwise?
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post #1820 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I figure, I can't get the construction really started until I have my room design back from EG...til' then, why not look at all options, including and improved upon seosr. Some decisions had to be made in order to get the design moving so I can break ground, which I'm already two weeks behind on, but not all. I figure a couple of weeks is nothing in the grand scheme and why not have this thing tweaked right from day one
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post #1821 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 12:31 PM
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I would like to hear the 5674, unfortunately I've heard that it is/has been discontinued.

Good luck on the project Chop.

If I may, what are you planning to use for the 80-300Hz region?
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post #1822 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to hear the 5674, unfortunately I've heard that it is/has been discontinued.

Good luck on the project Chop.

If I may, what are you planning to use for the 80-300Hz region?
Thanks!! I feel like I've done so many projects that have amounted to nothing but threads....this one, and the HT build in general, it's great to have them actually coming into use.

Still thinking of using the TD15M...the new direction will come from the handoff there to the next level and then the high end, horn etc. It's way too soon to say where the handoffs will be, but my feeling is that each component set in line will handle less range than the prior design and they'll be some additions to the component set as well. I'm really trying to make the 2.0 and end all speaker...no way to improve within reasonable extremes....the finese and clarity of the finest two channel and the dynamics/power to send people running from the imax..not much really
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post #1823 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 01:09 PM
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Any of the TD15 woofers will be able to handle up 380hz, and with more more authority and extension than the 15M.
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post #1824 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 03:57 PM
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You're saying you think I'd like the 5732 better than anything else?? Even though they would be less than optimal positions etc? The idea behind the 2.0 is sort of going on the premise to use top quality components, correct placement of them with regard to the listening room I'll have them in and replicate the capabilities of something like the 5732, but tailored to fit the room better. I'm not educated enough to know better, but so far Dennis, Shawn and many more have said those 5732 will just not work right....is your opinion otherwise?

i too would have advised against the 5732 and possibly even did so in the past. however we all learn as we go and while reading about the 5732, i noticed that it employs the 2542-sl c.d. the 2452sl is a 4" c.d. that in your application doesn't need to be crossed at the frequency (~1300hz or so) that it is when powering a 400 seat theater. you could run it down to 800hz no problem or even lower and still have 130db capable overkill headroom. what is special about 800hz? nothing. but when you look at something like the center-to-center spacing of the midhorn to the tophorn, you are looking at something LESS than the center-to-center spacing from the top to the "mids" of a speaker such as the 4722N. so with the same crossover point, a more capable compression driver, and LESS center-to-center spacing, the mid/top integration on the 5732 will be BETTER than with a proven 'home theater distance' winner such as the 4722N.


our ears are not very sensitive to height cues below the upper midrange, so the woofers (which you would be crossing in around 200hz or so) can be low and not cause any problem or they could even be placed side-by-side the mid/top horn as genelec does in their top-of-the-line studio monitors (the big guns such as the 1036a).*


so if it helps the intuition, think of the 5732 more as a 4722 sitting on top of a pair of additional 15" woofers that get rolled in around 200hz. since you will be up a step or two on your riser, the added height won't be a problem either.


as you know, there are several options that will work, and work well. i was simply sharing my opinion. :-)


*for a franken5732/1036a, the 5732mid/top can be purchased separately along with a pair of 18's and you could make your own version of 1036a's, but given your 21sw152 subwoofer plans, i don't think that is necessary. :-)

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post #1826 of 1832 Old 05-01-2015, 04:26 PM
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Yup.

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@COACH2369 - LTD02 beat me to your new room design.

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post #1828 of 1832 Old 05-02-2015, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
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lol LTD...I knew you'd do that


I see what you're saying now, makes sense. I have to say, I really trust the advise I've been given this week by a friend and very capable individual. I have to think that custom engineering something as capable, but with a configuration and active xover design that accounts for my particular room and goals right out of the gate, has to be the solution that will create the most success. If I didn't have the resources I do, I'd never attempt this...I'd probably just buy the 5732 and try them. Fortunately for me I do and I think I'll find the ultimate solution in this project. Plus my nature and changing things up a hundred times won't stop until I have a project under way and am committed.....even then I've changed things up so many times. I just have to commit to this and not worry about what the other options are, and trust I've made the right decision. Right now there are a few elements of this new design that have not been chosen, but I'll update the thread as they have and the design takes shape. Most of the info that affects the room design element can be counted on at this point and has been passed on to EG, so hopefully my room plans will be read soon...no more moving target
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post #1829 of 1832 Old 05-02-2015, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
lol LTD...I knew you'd do that


I see what you're saying now, makes sense. I have to say, I really trust the advise I've been given this week by a friend and very capable individual. I have to think that custom engineering something as capable, but with a configuration and active xover design that accounts for my particular room and goals right out of the gate, has to be the solution that will create the most success. If I didn't have the resources I do, I'd never attempt this...I'd probably just buy the 5732 and try them. Fortunately for me I do and I think I'll find the ultimate solution in this project. Plus my nature and changing things up a hundred times won't stop until I have a project under way and am committed.....even then I've changed things up so many times. I just have to commit to this and not worry about what the other options are, and trust I've made the right decision. Right now there are a few elements of this new design that have not been chosen, but I'll update the thread as they have and the design takes shape. Most of the info that affects the room design element can be counted on at this point and has been passed on to EG, so hopefully my room plans will be read soon...no more moving target
Sounds promising. I got my fingers crossed that it all works out for you buddy and will be following along like the rest of these yahoos!
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post #1830 of 1832 Old 05-02-2015, 08:40 AM
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"I have to think that custom engineering something as capable, but with a configuration and active xover design that accounts for my particular room and goals..."


roger.

Listen. It's All Good.

Last edited by LTD02; 05-02-2015 at 09:23 AM.
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