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post #1 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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S.E.O.S.R....Super Endeavor of Overdone Sound Reproduction.

A fitting name given by my partner in this build, and really, the man who helped us get it off the ground and will be doing the xover design and build. There may be a bit of a collaborative effort in the design phase of the xover as well. Matt (MTG90) has graciously offered to help with initial design, as well as actually doing the full xover design. We have discussed the possibility of input from others with design experience as we document the build in the thread.

This whole thing started when Gorilla, Popalock and I started to talk about a mega HT speaker build. We went back and forth a ton on the details of it and eventually decided it would be a good idea to contact Matt. Matt was great! He was interested right off the bat and has been an asset already, as he will continue to be. This project is what sparked the BMS group buy. The thread will move slower, as the gear will take a bit of time to get here, and once it is, we will have our work cut out for us. My end will be easy, swipe the credit card, build enclosures, that sort of thing. I will send off the parts to Matt once they all arrive and he will begin passive xover design. I am going to build some here as well, and fiddle with the mindsp and active xover a bit. My efforts won't yield anything as good as Matts, but it will be fun to try.

Ok, down to the nitty gritty. The build will consist of 9 speakers total...L/C/R, two sets of side surrounds(trying to maximize side coverage for 3 rows) and rears. The rears, and surrounds will consist of dual 12" woofers, a BMS 4594CD and a SEOS24 eek.gif. The mains build will be a bit bigger, with each containing the same BMS 4594 in a SEOS24 and dual woofers to be named later smile.gif. Not being a tease, we are still hashing through a couple of good options. Enclosures will be large and power #s will be as well. The main goal of this, before you all try to have me commited for building these surrounds, is to have the closest thing to nine exact matching speakers as possible.(with smaller woofers in the surrounds of course). I am trying to achieve an enormous size to the sound, incredible dynamics and silky smooth sound, should be easy right biggrin.gif

The debate on the mains started with different 18" options and came down to some 15" as well. We are goign back and forth, at the moment, on BMS or B&C woofers. The cabinets will more than likely end up looking something like the JBL Everest in the end..maybe bigger biggrin.gif I won't have quite the finishing skills or building skills as the folks who built that cabinet, but it will be my best effort. The first set of cabinets will be ver rough, to get the design perfect. Once the entire design is finished, and Matt feels comfortable with the xover and we are really happy with the sound, I will start to construct the finished units. The finishing will be a lot of effort just to know I did them right, but they will be behind the false wall in the end, so no one will see them. I just really want to make them top notch. The surrounds will stay simpler, because they are goign to force some huge pillars already and I don't want to push that much further.

I would like to thank all the DIY efforts on the forum and those involved for sparking this interest in me. Gorilla gave me my first real inspiration to build my Sentinels(which I'm listening to right now and are fantastic speakers), thanks Andrew. We all know Erich's tireless efforts to benefit the DIY community, and finally, Matt G for being a great enthusiast/designer who is willing to help so much. Stay tuned


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post #2 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:27 PM
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Nothing short of EPIC here. I will be closely following/drooling until i can afford and accomodate a similar build of my own.


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post #3 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:33 PM
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can we call it the megazoid? because thats all i could think of reading the title. Will be interesting to see this when its all said and done


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post #4 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:40 PM
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Wow! Sounds like it's going to be a big one!


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post #5 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:49 PM
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since you are doing an ultimate speaker build, I'll post a couple links and then run away smile.gif

cap comparisons:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
http://jimmyauw.com/2009/08/18/extreme-capacitors-battle-2nd-session/#more-1009

coil option:
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

after testing a lot of caps, I share similar opinions on quite a few of the cap test results discussed in those threads. The north creek inductors are worth the cash even though the prices seem extreme.... once you hear them compared to what you can buy at PE, it's laughable the difference.

The crossover is the single most important thing in the speaker... It will mean the difference between average and otherworldly sound no matter what kind of quality drivers you use.... part of that is the topology and skill of the designer, but part is also the parts used.

have fun and best of luck with the build!

Shane
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post #6 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Nothing short of EPIC here. I will be closely following/drooling until i can afford and accomodate a similar build of my own.

Get on this bro...You are one of the originators, build it!!

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Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

can we call it the megazoid? because thats all i could think of reading the title. Will be interesting to see this when its all said and done

The SEOSR Megazoid!! I love it.

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Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post

Wow! Sounds like it's going to be a big one!

Very large. I think my paranoia about my room size and desire for output sent me over the edge biggrin.gif

The room is going to be very large..21w X 35ish D x almost 11ft ceilings on tier one, just under 10ft on tier 2 and just under 9ft on tier 3. Three rows of seats, the works. I have saved a ton over the last year in hopes of building a theater of my dreams and it may actually happen now. I am already grinning.


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post #7 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheaterdoc View Post

since you are doing an ultimate speaker build, I'll post a couple links and then run away smile.gif

cap comparisons:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
http://jimmyauw.com/2009/08/18/extreme-capacitors-battle-2nd-session/#more-1009

coil option:
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html

after testing a lot of caps, I share similar opinions on quite a few of the cap test results discussed in those threads. The north creek inductors are worth the cash even though the prices seem extreme.... once you hear them compared to what you can buy at PE, it's laughable the difference.

The crossover is the single most important thing in the speaker... It will mean the difference between average and otherworldly sound no matter what kind of quality drivers you use.... part of that is the topology and skill of the designer, but part is also the parts used.

have fun and best of luck with the build!

Thanks man, much appreciated!! Don't go away though, share your thoughts at will. I am more than willing to spend whatever it takes on xovers. I told Matt from day one, just tell me what you need and I will buy it for the build. I am going to read the links now, thanks!


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post #8 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 07:14 PM
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All I saw was a bunch of subjective stuff about very expensive caps and coils rolleyes.gif Lets keep this focused on the crazy speaker designs.

Absolutely no need for anything more expensive then this IMO

http://www.parts-express.com/brand/erse-audio/241

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/metalized-polypropylene-capacitors/294?kg=641|1924&m=501


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post #9 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 07:18 PM
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Sign me up !!! Now this is a SEAS build that I could see building myself (even though my current room requirements are much smaller). Do you have a build thread for your theater too ?
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post #10 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Get on this bro...You are one of the originators, build it!!
The SEOSR Megazoid!! I love it.
Very large. I think my paranoia about my room size and desire for output sent me over the edge biggrin.gif

The room is going to be very large..21w X 35ish D x almost 11ft ceilings on tier one, just under 10ft on tier 2 and just under 9ft on tier 3. Three rows of seats, the works. I have saved a ton over the last year in hopes of building a theater of my dreams and it may actually happen now. I am already grinning.

Wow! That is one heck of a room. I would love to have 11 ft ceilings.


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post #11 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 08:01 PM
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can't wait to see it!!!
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post #12 of 1538 Old 02-08-2013, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Get on this bro...You are one of the originators, build it!!
The SEOSR Megazoid!! I love it.
Very large. I think my paranoia about my room size and desire for output sent me over the edge biggrin.gif

The room is going to be very large..21w X 35ish D x almost 11ft ceilings on tier one, just under 10ft on tier 2 and just under 9ft on tier 3. Three rows of seats, the works. I have saved a ton over the last year in hopes of building a theater of my dreams and it may actually happen now. I am already grinning.

Sounds like you have the audio well in hand. What are you doing for the video? Do you have a thread in the dedicated theater area?

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post #13 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 04:06 AM
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Big speakers = Big sound. I love it. The surrounds sound awesome. Maybe overkill for movies but multi-channel music will benifit for sure.

The mains have me more interested. I love my cornscalas and these sound like them after a overexposure to gamma rays!!!

I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

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post #14 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Sign me up !!! Now this is a SEAS build that I could see building myself (even though my current room requirements are much smaller). Do you have a build thread for your theater too ?

Haven't started the build thread yet...contractors doing the house build are slower than.., well you know. The house is getting rough inspection this week and then we can close up the inside and move to the "bunker". Once the theater area is ready to start, hopefully in a few weeks, I will document step by step. Dennis Erskine has been kind enough to send me a set of options for his services, which I will take advantage of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post

Wow! That is one heck of a room. I would love to have 11 ft ceilings.

yeah, we are very fortunate to have great space!

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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Sounds like you have the audio well in hand. What are you doing for the video? Do you have a thread in the dedicated theater area?

Hey Mike, I haven't started the thread yet, as stated above. I talked to you a bit about the Sony 1000 a while back. I have started a thread in the UHE section to get some help on PJ. I'd be happy to hear from you about what you guys can offer. pm me and we can chat a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Big speakers = Big sound. I love it. The surrounds sound awesome. Maybe overkill for movies but multi-channel music will benifit for sure.

The mains have me more interested. I love my cornscalas and these sound like them after a overexposure to gamma rays!!!

I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

Yeah, the surrounds got out of control, but I'm ok with it! I am just being excessive about matching the mid/hf section of the bms cd to the mains, and that means the seos24 to implement it properly. If the baffle needs to fit that, it may as well have dual 12s in it right.. biggrin.gif


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post #15 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 05:16 AM
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S.O.E.O.S.R....Super Endeavor of Overdone Sound Reproduction.

Huh? What is the extra "O" for?
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post #16 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

All I saw was a bunch of subjective stuff about very expensive caps and coils rolleyes.gif Lets keep this focused on the crazy speaker designs.

Absolutely no need for anything more expensive then this IMO

http://www.parts-express.com/brand/erse-audio/241

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/metalized-polypropylene-capacitors/294?kg=641|1924&m=501

I have a lot of researching to do. This seems to be split down the middle, and I certainly don't want to spend needless $$. If something will make a difference, I will pay the premium though. What I will probably end up doing is buying a few different ones (an experimental investment) and have Matt tell me if he thinks they are making a difference at any point as he experiments with the xovers.


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post #17 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 07:33 AM
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I might be interested in building one speaker for use as the center channel between my Seos12/360/2226's utilizing the BMS4594 and the Seos24, not sure on which woofer I should go with, but it will have to be below $350 as that is all I will have left, money wise. I have always felt that the center channel speaker is the most important so going overboard with a BMS-4594 and a Seos-24 might be just enough overkill for me to be happy. I will most likely go active on the crossovers, as I lack the knowledge to build a passive. This may very well be the most interesting thread that I have ever had the pleasure of reading here on AVS!
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post #18 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I have a lot of researching to do. This seems to be split down the middle, and I certainly don't want to spend needless $$. If something will make a difference, I will pay the premium though. What I will probably end up doing is buying a few different ones (an experimental investment) and have Matt tell me if he thinks they are making a difference at any point as he experiments with the xovers.

If you are considering expensive crossover components, just go active. It will be cheaper and more useful down the road. The only problem is having to buy more amps.

Good reading active vs passive:

http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

JSS
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post #19 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:10 AM
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SUBSCRIBED!!!! Jake, this build is crazy and I love it. As Rilla stated it will be nothin short of EPIC. The first super SEOS build. Very nice.......
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post #20 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I might be interested in building one speaker for use as the center channel between my Seos12/360/2226's utilizing the BMS4594 and the Seos24, not sure on which woofer I should go with, but it will have to be below $350 as that is all I will have left, money wise. I have always felt that the center channel speaker is the most important so going overboard with a BMS-4594 and a Seos-24 might be just enough overkill for me to be happy. I will most likely go active on the crossovers, as I lack the knowledge to build a passive. This may very well be the most interesting thread that I have ever had the pleasure of reading here on AVS!

There are way better threads out there than mine Marty, but thank you! I love the way you put the idea behind your center channel...just enough overkill. I can assure you that whatever woofers I use, none are more than $350. If you are going to go active anyway, you could even save loads of cash on a good BMS woofer with the group buy. You could get a 4594 and a pair of BMS15s330 for like $900 or so with the group buy! Add a SEOS24 for $2 bills and for just over a grand have the best damn center you could want!

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If you are considering expensive crossover components, just go active. It will be cheaper and more useful down the road. The only problem is having to buy more amps.

Good reading active vs passive:

http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

JSS

Thank you for the link sir. The plan is to have Matt build the best possible passive for them and see how I do with active too. I like the idea of plug and play once the passives are done, but I'm sure I will get the hang of the active bit over time and be able to get great results that way too. I actually had a really nice 3 way active setup in one of my cars a few years ago. I put nowhere near the effort into that as I will put into this. I'm trying to figure out how many of what minidsp, or other device I will need to get them all done...


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post #21 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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SUBSCRIBED!!!! Jake, this build is crazy and I love it. As Rilla stated it will be nothin short of EPIC. The first super SEOS build. Very nice.......

Thanks man! If this thing turns out half as good as I hope it does, I wil have the setup I always wanted!


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post #22 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 09:21 AM
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ChopShop, do you know how much the BMS-4594 will be with the group buy discount? If you don't want to post the price out in the open, feel free to PM me.

This is going to be one hell of a speaker! I am very much looking forward to reading the progress on this build! I have pretty much decided on going with the Seos for my theater build, but I am also going to do a Statement or Corn-Scala build to compare to the Seos, then I will either sell the one I like less, or donate it to my fiance' who is in law school in Oxford Mississippi and currently living in a cheapo apartment.
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post #23 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 10:23 AM
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I can design the passive and active crossover at the same time.

We will see how it goes with a passive 400-500hz crossover. I have done a lower passive crossover of 280hz crossover in my synergies so I hope these won’t give me too much trouble.
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post #24 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

ChopShop, do you know how much the BMS-4594 will be with the group buy discount? If you don't want to post the price out in the open, feel free to PM me.

This is going to be one hell of a speaker! I am very much looking forward to reading the progress on this build! I have pretty much decided on going with the Seos for my theater build, but I am also going to do a Statement or Corn-Scala build to compare to the Seos, then I will either sell the one I like less, or donate it to my fiance' who is in law school in Oxford Mississippi and currently living in a cheapo apartment.

Nice plan, choices are good! pm sent

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I can design the passive and active crossover at the same time.

We will see how it goes with a passive 400-500hz crossover. I have done a lower passive crossover of 280hz crossover in my synergies so I hope these won’t give me too much trouble.

Nice! It will be great to have the options. Sending you a pm in a bit about woofers, just had an interesting conversation with a supplier.


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post #25 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

S.E.O.S.R....Super Endeavor of Overdone Sound Reproduction.

Ok, down to the nitty gritty. The build will consist of 9 speakers total...L/C/R, two sets of side surrounds(trying to maximize side coverage for 3 rows) and rears. The rears, and surrounds will consist of dual 12" woofers, a BMS 4594CD and a SEOS24 eek.gif. The mains build will be a bit bigger, with each containing the same BMS 4594 in a SEOS24 and dual woofers to be named later smile.gif. Not being a tease, we are still hashing through a couple of good options. Enclosures will be large and power #s will be as well. The main goal of this, before you all try to have me commited for building these surrounds, is to have the closest thing to nine exact matching speakers as possible.(with smaller woofers in the surrounds of course). I am trying to achieve an enormous size to the sound, incredible dynamics and silky smooth sound, should be easy right biggrin.gif

Are you considering the BMS 12S320 for your surround woofers? Don't let the pricelist fool you...it's listed as a subwoofer on there, but it's a midrange on the BMS site. Triple demodulating rings, 3" VC, 98 dB sen., 500 W power handling -- seems like an absolute steal for $140/each!

Here's another 'okay' speaker that uses all BMS drivers -- two 12S320's and a 4592 coax CD. It's kind of cute how Tannoy calls the CD a Dual Concentric™ compression driver in the technical specs. wink.gif



To let you know just how insane you are for using these as surrounds! biggrin.gif

If the 12S320 isn't 'good enough' for you, you could step up to the 12N620 neo for $70 more. tongue.gif

Totally gonzo build if you end up doing it -- $4700 in coax compression drivers! eek.gif -- plus another minimum of $2500 in woofers and $1800 in waveguides..will be over $10k with crossover and cabs.
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post #26 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you considering the BMS 12S320 for your surround woofers? Don't let the pricelist fool you...it's listed as a subwoofer on there, but it's a midrange on the BMS site. Triple demodulating rings, 3" VC, 98 dB sen., 500 W power handling -- seems like an absolute steal for $140/each!

Here's another 'okay' speaker that uses all BMS drivers -- two 12S320's and a 4592 coax CD. It's kind of cute how Tannoy calls the CD a Dual Concentric™ compression driver in the technical specs. wink.gif



To let you know just how insane you are for using these as surrounds! biggrin.gif

If the 12S320 isn't 'good enough' for you, you could step up to the 12N620 neo for $70 more. tongue.gif

Totally gonzo build if you end up doing it -- $4700 in coax compression drivers! eek.gif -- plus another minimum of $2500 in woofers and $1800 in waveguides..will be over $10k with crossover and cabs.

Make no mistake, the build is on biggrin.gif. Already ordered my 9 SEOS24s and wm putting my BMS order in by Monday, just need to finalize the woofers I will use. I have looked at the BMS, n620 in 12 for surrounds and 15s for mains. The model pretty good, but I am still deciding. May actually exceed those numbers, my wallet hurts thinking about it. I just want to do it, build something overly overkill and know that I could not have done better for my purposes. Even if it exceeds that staed number, it's still less than the full Seaton or JTR systems I was contemplating. The AE td15x and 12x are modeling really nice, so it may end up being those too. Teh problem with the build is that I have so many woofer choices, its kind of like being at a restaurant with a big menu...too many things look too good !! biggrin.gif With the number of woofers I will be ordering, the AE's don't end up any more expensive than any of the others, and actually less than some.


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post #27 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Make no mistake, the build is on biggrin.gif. Already ordered my 9 SEOS24s and wm putting my BMS order in by Monday, just need to finalize the woofers I will use. I have looked at the BMS, n620 in 12 for surrounds and 15s for mains. The model pretty good, but I am still deciding. May actually exceed those numbers, my wallet hurts thinking about it. I just want to do it, build something overly overkill and know that I could not have done better for my purposes. Even if it exceeds that staed number, it's still less than the full Seaton or JTR systems I was contemplating. The AE td15x and 12x are modeling really nice, so it may end up being those too. Teh problem with the build is that I have so many woofer choices, its kind of like being at a restaurant with a big menu...too many things look too good !! biggrin.gif With the number of woofers I will be ordering, the AE's don't end up any more expensive than any of the others, and actually less than some.

Parts are ordered...Game On! smile.gif

Good point on what comparable speakers cost...$19,800 + shipping for 9 Noesis! Are they going to be oriented the same way as the Noesis or woofers on the bottom?

Is Jack going to sprinkle any 'extra discount sauce' on your order as you were the mastermind of the GB? biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post

Parts are ordered...Game On! smile.gif

Good point on what comparable speakers cost...$19,800 + shipping for 9 Noesis! Are they going to be oriented the same way as the Noesis or woofers on the bottom?

Is Jack going to sprinkle any 'extra discount sauce' on your order as you were the mastermind of the GB? biggrin.gif

Yes sir!

They will not be oriented like the Noesis. They will look more like they JBL Everest...dual woofers on bottom, topped with a SEOS24:)

He hasn't made me aware of any extra for me, but I wouldn't be mad at him if he did biggrin.gif In all seriousness, I was calling to set up a potential order for me, Gorilla and Popalock and it was going to get the discount because it was large enough. At that point, I just figured it would be cool to run it by Jack and get him to offer it to all in a group buy for everyone interested....the group buy was born


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post #29 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 07:04 PM
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Have you considered 18" woofers? Possibly in an MTM arrangement.
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post #30 of 1538 Old 02-09-2013, 07:27 PM
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Planning on building some big speakers, eh?

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