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post #271 of 363 Old 04-11-2013, 05:09 AM
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Received mine yesterday.
Would have to say John & Jana's service has been fantastic!
Shipping was also very quick (albeit expensive to Australia).
The drivers look superb! Cannot wait to fire them up!
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post #272 of 363 Old 04-15-2013, 02:44 PM
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Exactly what material are the phase plugs made out of?

Also, in order to have the black anodizing done, all one has to do is ship the phase plugs back to AE.?
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post #273 of 363 Old 04-15-2013, 03:17 PM
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Solid aluminum, iirc.

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post #274 of 363 Old 04-15-2013, 06:32 PM
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I stopped by AE this afternoon to pick up my 4-TD10X's. The packing was exceptional even though I only had 30 some miles to drive them home. smile.gif
I took a quick look around the shop and it was pretty impressive. It was like walking into woofer heaven!! There were all kinds of sizes of woofers on turntables and shelves.

I looked at the black phase plugs on several woofers and am still content with my choice to stick with the regular phase plugs. The aluminum just offsets the color of the black cone very nicely whereas the black phase plug blends in too much.

Thanks again Jana and John for a great buying experience and the awesome woofers!!!! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #275 of 363 Old 04-16-2013, 08:19 AM
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tsloms, sorry i wasn't around when you came by yesterday. Being a single father, I leave at 3:15 everyday to pick up my girls from school and don't get back until about 4:15. I think you showed up right in the middle of that time. Glad you are happy with the woofers though and thanks for the compliments.

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post #276 of 363 Old 04-16-2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_E_Janowitz View Post

tsloms, sorry i wasn't around when you came by yesterday. Being a single father, I leave at 3:15 everyday to pick up my girls from school and don't get back until about 4:15. I think you showed up right in the middle of that time. Glad you are happy with the woofers though and thanks for the compliments.

I would have liked to have met you but I did stop by just before 4 so I didn't catch you. I understand the joys of being a single father as I have 13, 15, and 17 year old daughters. There's never a dull moment!

Once I am able to begin my build I will post pics but it won't be for a month or so yet.
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post #277 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 12:54 PM
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Figure I'd give you guys some more AE speaker porn. Here are a couple pics of the TD6's that Matt is designing a xover for me. Check out the magnet on these bad boys. Absolute insanity. Matt will be breaking one in shortly and providing some TS parameters.

In the meantime:



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post #278 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:12 PM
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is that a 6" driver or an 8". its 6". 8 ohms. found it

? i dont see it on their site

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post #279 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:16 PM
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Those look really cool. Two of this under a SEOS 12 would make for a really nice design I bet. What are you planning on doing with them?
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post #280 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

Those look really cool. Two of this under a SEOS 12 would make for a really nice design I bet. What are you planning on doing with them?

2 under a SEOS12. biggrin.gif

Will be handling the height duties. Matt keeps assuring me overkill is just right. smile.gif

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post #281 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

2 under a SEOS12. biggrin.gif

Will be handling the height duties. Matt keeps assuring me overkill is just right. smile.gif

thats what i was thinking!. i wonder how that would compare to a Big Mal?

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post #282 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:23 PM
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Edit: thought you were asking a different question. biggrin.gif

I think these will have a sensitivity and output advantage but not dig quite as low as the NS6's.
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post #283 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

thats what i was thinking!. i wonder how that would compare to a Big Mal?

Not sure, but this was a no brainer matching up with the rest of the build.

So I'm going from M80 mains, M60 center, and QS8 heights to TD15m mains and center and dual TD6's per side heights. Should be crazy. Well maybe not Chop crazy, but normal people crazy nonetheless. biggrin.gif

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post #284 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:27 PM
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plenty crazy! no worries!!

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post #285 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post


I think these will have a sensitivity and output advantage but not dig quite as low as the NS6's.

Which isn't a big deal for what they will be used for.

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post #286 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

2 under a SEOS12. biggrin.gif

Ah, a Daniel. With the phase plugs on the TD6s, that's gonna make a particularly awesome googly-eyed face (if used WG down). :-D
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post #287 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Figure I'd give you guys some more AE speaker porn. Here are a couple pics of the TD6's that Matt is designing a xover for me. Check out the magnet on these bad boys. Absolute insanity. Matt will be breaking one in shortly and providing some TS parameters.

In the meantime:



Seet Travis, those look purdy! I will be watching you guys put together the heights for sure.
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post #288 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 02:06 PM
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I'm doing dual TD6Hs under SEOS12/BMS4550 and wall mounting them up high on articulating plasma mounts and angled down for LCR... have to get speakers up out of the reach of the 1 year old rough and tumble boy in my house smile.gif He's already done a number on a >$6K pair of Harbeth Monitor 30.1 tiger ebony veneered cabinets.... nothing like watching a couple thousand bucks in value go up in smoke as cabinets get damaged.....surrounds will be articulating wall mounted PE gloss black cabinets with single TD6M and EOS8/BMS4550 again mounted up high out of reach... just need to find any kind of time at all to get boxes built and start the measurements and crossover work.... family time and personal stuff has eaten every single minute..... I don't even get time to surf the web hardly at all anymore frown.gif

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post #289 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hometheaterdoc View Post

just need to find any kind of time at all to get boxes built and start the measurements and crossover work.... family time and personal stuff has eaten every single minute..... I don't even get time to surf the web hardly at all anymore frown.gif

I know that feeling all too well. Well except the surfing part where I slack off at work. biggrin.gif

These originally were going to be used for surround duty, but I changed my mind and decided to match the entire front stage first. I'll worry about sides and rears in my next bout of upgradeitis. smile.gif

I need to get my butt in gear and start building cabs myself. All the lumber is sitting in my garage with nowhere to go.

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post #290 of 363 Old 04-18-2013, 05:00 PM
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My TD12X project starts this weekend. All phase plugs and drivers are delivered. Much thanks to John and Jana at AE for the outstanding service and quality of the drivers.
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post #291 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 10:36 AM
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Hi everyone...Its Jana.
So who wants a chance at getting a free woofer? For more details go to:
http://www.aespeakers.com/news.php?start=0&news_id=32

Im excited to see all the finished masterpieces.
filtor1 likes this.
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post #292 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 10:58 AM
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Welcome Jana! Glad to have you here. smile.gif

-Nate
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post #293 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 11:02 AM
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Thank you Nate. I figured the more places to communicate, the better....And I get a kick out of some of the posts... so we all win. wink.gif
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post #294 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 04:22 PM
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Here are T/S specs of the TD6M-8 after 2 hours break in:

* This data was exported from the Dayton Audio WT3 Woofer Tester
*
* Manufacturer:
* Model:
* Piston Diameter = 123.2 mm
* f(s)= 77.38 Hz
* R(e)= 6.38 Ohms
* Z(max)= 76.92 Ohms
* Q(ms)= 2.920
* Q(es)= 0.264
* Q(ts)= 0.242
* V(as)= 6.972 liters (0.246 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 1.13 mH
* n(0)= 1.17 %
* SPL= 92.77 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 12.11 grams
* C(ms)= 0.35 mm/N
* BL= 11.93


I still need to build a box measure FR and and play around with crossover simulations but it is looking to be a little tricky to get them to play down to 80hz. Going ported is a must if going using a passive crossover to get any kind of usable extension from them. These are more suited as mids.
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post #295 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Here are T/S specs of the TD6M-8 after 2 hours break in:

* This data was exported from the Dayton Audio WT3 Woofer Tester
*
* Manufacturer:
* Model:
* Piston Diameter = 123.2 mm
* f(s)= 77.38 Hz
* R(e)= 6.38 Ohms
* Z(max)= 76.92 Ohms
* Q(ms)= 2.920
* Q(es)= 0.264
* Q(ts)= 0.242
* V(as)= 6.972 liters (0.246 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 1.13 mH
* n(0)= 1.17 %
* SPL= 92.77 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 12.11 grams
* C(ms)= 0.35 mm/N
* BL= 11.93


I still need to build a box measure FR and and play around with crossover simulations but it is looking to be a little tricky to get them to play down to 80hz. Going ported is a must if going using a passive crossover to get any kind of usable extension from them. These are more suited as mids.

Is it me, or does the inductance seem really high?
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post #296 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

Is it me, or does the inductance seem really high?

I'm glad you said something as I was thinking the same thing.

This is a quote taken from John on the AE page.
Quote:
The TD6H is my real favorite. Parameters will be up shortly. It has smooth response to 5KHz, efficiency around 90dB 1W, and tiny inductance of about .15mH. They compare to the Scan Speak Illuminator at over $300. The TD6H however has about 6dB more efficiency, 10mm Xmax vs 6mm, and 1/3 the inductance. You see the same with Seas Excel drivers. The other comparable drivers in terms of low distortion are from Audio Technology and ATC at upwards of $400 each. Even those have much higher and less linear inductance. For a 2way or MTM where you want to cross high to a dome or ribbon tweeter there are really no drivers that can compare.

Here are the measurements he posted. Quite a discrepancy between Matt's measurements.

TD6M-8 T/S Parameters
Fs: 83hz
Qms: 3.1
Vas: 10.3L
Cms: .45mm/N
Mms: 8.2 g
Rms: 1.38kg/s
Xmax: 3.3mm
xmech: 7mm
Sd: 127 sqcm
Qes: .46
Re: 6.1ohm
Le: .044mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 7.5 Tm
Pe: 100W
Qts: .4
qW SPL: 93.5dB
2.83V: 94.5dB




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post #297 of 363 Old 04-19-2013, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

This is a quote taken from John on the AE page...

FWIW that quote is re: the TD6H, not M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Here are the measurements he posted. Quite a discrepancy between Matt's measurements.

John had previously indicated that the first batch of numbers he posted in that thread for the TD6H were from a prototype and no official T/S have been published. Presumably the same holds for the 6M. Regardless, 1.13mH does seem high.
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post #298 of 363 Old 04-20-2013, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

Here are T/S specs of the TD6M-8 after 2 hours break in:

* This data was exported from the Dayton Audio WT3 Woofer Tester
*
* Manufacturer:
* Model:
* Piston Diameter = 123.2 mm
* f(s)= 77.38 Hz
* R(e)= 6.38 Ohms
* Z(max)= 76.92 Ohms
* Q(ms)= 2.920
* Q(es)= 0.264
* Q(ts)= 0.242
* V(as)= 6.972 liters (0.246 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 1.13 mH
* n(0)= 1.17 %
* SPL= 92.77 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 12.11 grams
* C(ms)= 0.35 mm/N
* BL= 11.93


I still need to build a box measure FR and and play around with crossover simulations but it is looking to be a little tricky to get them to play down to 80hz. Going ported is a must if going using a passive crossover to get any kind of usable extension from them. These are more suited as mids.

Wow, I really hope there is something wrong with either the driver or the WT3, those values are really far off AE spec with regards to Le. That is really NOT what I paid for.
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post #299 of 363 Old 04-20-2013, 04:09 AM
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If anyone has another driver in my area, I'd be happy to sweep one in DATS as well to see if there is any driver variation?
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post #300 of 363 Old 04-20-2013, 07:28 AM
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When a measurement doesn't match, we need to see why. Either the measurement is wrong, or the published info is wrong. In this case, the difference in Le measurement has been discussed many times over the past 15 years. Most programs like the WT3, Sound Easy, and others, will try to fit the very bottom of the curve. The curve fit points are all within the first few octaves above FS. They are designed to fit a VC acting as an iron core inductor with the solid steel pole inside. The copper sleeve forces the VC to act like an air core, removing the interaction with the pole. What results is the software being unable to fit the curve. The measurements at DriverVault stated:

"SE's curve fitting did not like the weird impedance profile of this driver due to the full copper sleeve on the pole piece, so measured Le is a bit higher than actual."

https://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/driver-measurements/tang-band-75-1558se/ae-speakers-td12m

What happens is the same in all the TD woofers. The copper sleeve flattens the curve making the VC become like an air core inductor. In the case of the TD6M there is a very slight rise below 500hz and the WT3 will fit to that portion of the curve. However, you can see that is really not accurate as the rest of that curve doesn't follow the small bump. Here is an actual measurement of the impedance curve of the TD6M:



Even at 20KHz there is still barely any increase to the impedance curve. Now if we look at the modeled curve putting in .15mH and 1.13mH we see why it is incorrect. The green curve shows the .15mH inductance and the blue curve shows the 1.13mH inductance.



You can see that the .15mH measurement is closer to what is really seen. In reality though, even the green curve shows far more predicted increase by 20KHz than the actual measurement of the driver.

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