A7s-650 kit and Crown XTI-2002 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 02-17-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Long story short, I bought these (A7s-650 kit and Crown XTI-2002) from eD together as per Alex's suggestion right before they closed doors. I don't want to change subs or enclosure but should I begin looking for another amp?

I am wired for an 8Ohm load bridged which is 1600rms from the amp.

After reading around quite a bit I can not find a whole lot about the XTI-2002 being used for sub-woofer duties. Is it capable of producing anything worth while below 20Hz?
The band manager software limits EQ'ing to 20Hz and above, is this because it falls on its face power wise at this point?

I'm in a 12'X16' room that has one whole side open to the rest of the house. (1400ft2 8ft ceilings) I realize it may be difficult to fill the entire house, but over all I have been disappointed with the LFE.

I used audyssey XT32 for initial setup and turned things up from there. I have not run REW yet because I am still in the process of learning how to use it.

I like the idea of built in DSP. Am I waisting time on this amp? If so, make me some suggestions...

Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 35 Old 02-19-2013, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Any input?

Should I sell the crown and go for an EP4000 with a miniDSP?

Any other amps I should look at for subwoofer duties?
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post #3 of 35 Old 02-19-2013, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I emailed Crown this morning and was told

"Pro audio amplifiers are rated from 20Hz to 20kHz. There is about a 24 dB /octave roll off at 20 Hz. If you want higher level below 20Hz, you would have to boost the gain on the low frequencies. There is no way to defeat the roll off."

I guess I'll try to contact Be ringer next. I've read lots of info on here and other forums but is nice to hear it directly from the source.
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post #4 of 35 Old 02-19-2013, 04:55 AM
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I have two kits w/ two crown XTi2002 amps and all is pretty good, outside of the gain problems I am having (mostly inexperience with pro amps). I think they are very capable and great amps. They aren't really that popular due to the cost, when compared to the EP4k and others much cheaper with similar power.

Most of the EQ functions are meant for a different audience / pro rigs. They are not concerned with frequencies that low.

You have a 1500 ft3 of space that is open to the rest of the house, meaning that the room size is HUGE! One of these is not going to properly pressurize that space. If it was a closed room, it would be a much different story.

Do you have the ability to measure your response? OmniMic or REW?

I struggled getting mine setup in an "open floor plan" room, until I picked up an OmniMic. It helped me find the proper locations for the subs, greatly improving performance.
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post #5 of 35 Old 02-19-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesidan View Post

I emailed Crown this morning and was told

"Pro audio amplifiers are rated from 20Hz to 20kHz. There is about a 24 dB /octave roll off at 20 Hz. If you want higher level below 20Hz, you would have to boost the gain on the low frequencies. There is no way to defeat the roll off."

That's what they told me about ALL PRO AMPS and we know that's not true. There are many people with crown amps on this forum without any problems in the low end. I think that's their standard line that they tell everybody regarding the 20Hz roll off. I would try to connect everything first before you start looking for another amp. Sometimes people over think things way too much. smile.gif
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post #6 of 35 Old 02-19-2013, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys! I've had this up and running for close to a year and have been underwhelmed since.

I have REW on my laptop but don't know how to use it or have a good mic to measure with. I only have the mic that came with my Marantz sr5006 for audessey xt32. Can I use it?

I will look into OmniMic for sure:)

This is what I received from Behringer today.

"According to the spec sheet for the EP4000, this unit has a frequency response of 5Hz to 50kHz at -3 dB, but I do have a spec listing that shows how flat the frequency response actually is for this amp. I, unfortunately, am not aware of any amp made by BEHRINGER that provides me with a spec of the frequency response flatness. Sorry that I am unable to help you any further with your search."

I wish someone with this amp using it in a similar circumstance would chime in with some measurement data in the low end. I just don't know what I might be missing....

Keep the advice coming
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post #7 of 35 Old 02-20-2013, 07:17 AM
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There have been lots of people who run EP4000's and have posted subwoofer measurements that show the subs as going down to sub 16hz will plenty of SPL with a flat frequency response. I do not recall anyone running the Xti-2002 as a sub amp with measurements that show any serious SPL below 20hz. Bottom line is that the Behringer EP series is going to be a better match for a subwoofer than the Xti-2002, but the Xti-2002 is better for running your mains, LCR's, as it has on board DSP that would come in very handy for that, plus most peoples LCR's do not go down to sub 20hz anyway.
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post #8 of 35 Old 02-20-2013, 11:16 AM
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Yes, the EP-2500 and EP-4000 can reach as low as you need. Here is the old stack





These powered these two different setups, the sealed eD's were 2 ohms each sub and the Danleys were 4 ohms each. I ran each amp in stereo.



This was the 2 ohms per sub setup and here is the response



This was the 4 ohm setup and response









Finally here are my 6 passive kits



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post #9 of 35 Old 02-20-2013, 02:08 PM
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You say that you're disappointed in the LFE but do you have your gains setup correctly? If not, than you might be looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

Some things to consider:

1. What level is your volume knob at when you're watching movies? If should be around 0 to -10dB...
2. Did you level match all your speakers using an SPL meter at least?
3. Did you try move the speaker around your walls/room? Maybe you have it placed in a null spot...
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post #10 of 35 Old 02-21-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesidan View Post

I wish someone with this amp using it in a similar circumstance would chime in with some measurement data in the low end. I just don't know what I might be missing....

Keep the advice coming

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I exactly what you have only x2. My cabinets are 4Ohm each, not 8Ohm. Each XTi is bridged 4Ohm to each sub.

I am still struggling with my gain setup, but right now my gain knobs on the XTi are turned all the way up. I know that I definitely get down low, so that isn't an issue. Because I have an open room, it definitely doesn't pressurize the space like a smaller, sealed room will.

It took me a long time to find a good placement, and even then, it's not ideal.

My first measurements with OminMic were awful! Once I moved the subs around it definitely got a LOT better. So I would definitely look at moving it around some and just seeing what it does.

I will try to get some measurements this weekend, no guarantees though.
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post #11 of 35 Old 02-21-2013, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Donald2B--- Thank you very much for your input. If you can post some measurements, that would be great. When I set the gain on the XTI for 75db it is 2 or 3 clicks under half way. I'm curious about you having your gains maxed.

The room I'm in is very restricted because I have a huge sectional couch. I have the sub on the front wall between the TV and the right main near the opening to the rest of the house, opposite of the corner I would like it in. I will try a crawl test if I can get that heavy beast on my couch.

I've had offers of people wanting to trade or buy my XTI. I just need to figure out what I'm doing before I make a poor/good decision.
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post #12 of 35 Old 02-21-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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MKtheater--- thank you for the great pics, graphs and info, it makes me believe I won't go wrong with an EP4000. If I were closer to you I would probably have more subs than I knew what to do with, how many do you have left?

I just need similar info hopefully from Donald2B using his XTI2002's
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post #13 of 35 Old 02-21-2013, 08:55 AM
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I have all 6. A member says he wants them but still waiting.
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post #14 of 35 Old 04-01-2013, 08:37 PM
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I just read through this thread and have been interested in the Crown xti series to run my fronts. I'm just worried about it matching up with my Marantz pre/pro. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
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post #15 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I just read through this thread and have been interested in the Crown xti series to run my fronts. I'm just worried about it matching up with my Marantz pre/pro. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
What are you concerned about? Your Marantz, as long as it has balanced outputs, should be able to drive it with no problems.

Mike
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post #16 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 12:29 PM
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What are you concerned about? Your Marantz, as long as it has balanced outputs, should be able to drive it with no problems.



My concerns are if it will match up ok. The Crown has it's own EQ, which I'm assuming you can bypass? But what about my the DSP in my 8801 and the one in the Crown, will they work against each other?
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post #17 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 12:30 PM
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You can disable any DSP or EQ in the Crown.

Mike
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post #18 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 12:33 PM
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You can disable any DSP or EQ in the Crown.



I thought that would be the case, just needed to know for sure, thanks. Have you ever run your fronts with a Crown or other pro amp?
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post #19 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I thought that would be the case, just needed to know for sure, thanks. Have you ever run your fronts with a Crown or other pro amp?
Yes, a XTi1002.

Mike
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post #20 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, a XTi1002.



Nice, do you think it works as well as a traditional home audio amp?
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post #21 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 01:51 PM
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Yes, it works fine, IMO.

Mike
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post #22 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 02:41 PM
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Great, thanks.
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post #23 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes, the EP-2500 and EP-4000 can reach as low as you need. Here is the old stack





These powered these two different setups, the sealed eD's were 2 ohms each sub and the Danleys were 4 ohms each. I ran each amp in stereo.



This was the 2 ohms per sub setup and here is the response



This was the 4 ohm setup and response









Finally here are my 6 passive kits






Damn I would love to hear that!
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post #24 of 35 Old 04-02-2013, 08:15 PM
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Here is the front stage now

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post #25 of 35 Old 04-03-2013, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Here is the front stage now




Nice, how low does your bass go down?
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post #26 of 35 Old 04-03-2013, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Nice, how low does your bass go down?

Um.........

2 posts above is a graph of his setup.
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post #27 of 35 Old 04-03-2013, 04:22 AM
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Um thanks, guess I missed that biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 35 Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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We all have our days, must be your turn eek.gif
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post #29 of 35 Old 04-03-2013, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

You can disable any DSP or EQ in the Crown.

Why would you want to disable the EQ in the XTI amps? If it were me and I was using the XTI amps to power my mains then I would also use them to EQ my mains, then after EQ'ing I would run the Ayd in the Marantz pre-pro.
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post #30 of 35 Old 04-03-2013, 06:26 AM
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Here is a raw graph of the response with no EQ.

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