Dual Dayton HO 18's - First DIY project - AVS Forum
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I’ve posted a few times in here with questions re my first DIY project (2 18” Dayton HOs, 1 EP4000)…. Just finished one sub so figured create a new thread to post pics…and more questions. I’ll break out my real camera and take more pictures while assembling the next sub and will post them here too. I hope to finish the 2nd sub this weekend and then take some measurements and get everything calibrated.

For now, here are a couple pics I took with my cell phone.




I used Erich’s 4 cu ft flat packs (which were great btw). For this first sub, I used PL Premium and ended up assembling the entire cabinet at once and using 4 ratchet tie downs and 6 bar clamps to hold it together while it dried. This ended up working out OK but I did use my small belt sander to even up around the seams since the PL expanded a bit and caused the pieces to not be perfectly flush in some places. The sander also helped clean up where PL got smeared around the seams. I’ve since bought Titebond II and plan to assemble the 2nd sub with it piece-by-piece, which I think will result in less time needed for clean up/sanding/etc.

I went with Duratex and a foam roller for the finish. I think I ended up with 3 coats but wasn’t quite able to get the finish I’d wanted. I ended up with more texture than I’d prefer and could never get 100% rid of the roller lines. If anyone has suggestions to avoid the roller lines, please let me know.

To mount the driver, I used hurricane nuts that were secured to the cabinet with small squares of plywood I’d glued to the MDF (read to do this on another thread). I’ve read mixed reviews about using hurricane nuts but didn’t have much trouble with them (a couple bolts took a few minutes to get in b/c the holes weren’t perfectly straight – took a little wiggling to get the bolt to thread into the nut but eventually went in fine).

I tested the sub briefly last night and was relieved to hear that it definitely works. First impressions are good and it sounds like it goes lower than my Epiks so I’m interested in seeing its measurements. I’ll post the measurements here once I take them.

One concern though – I hear a slight hum coming from the sub when everything is hooked up and powered on. I imagine it’s related to a ground loop issue; I’ve been using a Hum-X device with the BFD I used for my Epiks (this eliminated the hum entirely). Last night, I unplugged the BFD and used the Hum-X for the EP4000 which seemed to reduce the hum but did not eliminate it entirely. If I put my ear near my mains’ tweeters, I also hear a slight buzz coming from them. The hum would not be noticeable during a movie but think I’d perceive it during soft parts of music. Any thoughts on what’s causing this hum and how to eliminate it? Or is a slight hum from the EP4000 typical? BTW, unplugging the coax cable had no impact with the BFD/Epiks; and I tried running a ground b/n the BFD and AVR which had no impact.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:28 PM
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Did the top of your sub have roller marks? Another forum member, mrsmithers, has done a sub and 3 speakers with Duratex and all of the tops look better than the sides. I'm thinking about turning the cabinets as I put Duratex on them so that I'm always doing the top. Problem is that will take a lot more time.

I do know that from paining my wall to become a screen for my projector I had to be very careful not to put ANY pressure on the roller at all. Even the slightest pressure would cause a roller line to show up when the projector was turned on.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:34 PM
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Also, I had a bad hum when I bought a ep4000 and dual Captivators. I checked the cable line and sure enough there was a huge difference between having the cable line plugged into my box and when I unplugged it. The hum was still there without the cable plugged in but MUCH better.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017I3K9M/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ended up buying this which helped a ton, a could only hear the hum when I put my ear right up next to the Cap driver once I used it. So, check your cable line and if a simialr thing happens to you this could be the solution for you.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:40 PM
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I ran into the same problem. Roller marks show very easily with this finish. You just need to apply very even light pressure and make quick strokes. That sounded dirty. biggrin.gif

As far as the hum; I've run into the exact same problem. My subs run off my EP4000's has zero hum unless I'm calibrating the SMS which doesn't make sense. However my friend that I build a 15 for running off an EP2000 has a very distinct hum.

Weird thing is even my SVS had a very slight hum so it's not just a pro amp issue. I've been pretty lucky with avoiding ground loops and such so far.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:57 PM
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Buy a wider roller. HD and Lowes both carry 18" wide rollers, don't forget you'll also need an adapter.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:59 PM
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Did the top of your sub have roller marks? Another forum member, mrsmithers, has done a sub and 3 speakers with Duratex and all of the tops look better than the sides. I'm thinking about turning the cabinets as I put Duratex on them so that I'm always doing the top. Problem is that will take a lot more time.

I do know that from paining my wall to become a screen for my projector I had to be very careful not to put ANY pressure on the roller at all. Even the slightest pressure would cause a roller line to show up when the projector was turned on.

I did have marks on the top but less than on the sides so you might be onto something. You also might be right about me using to much pressure. I tried varying it from soft to very hard but I'll try to go extremely soft on the next sub.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Also, I had a bad hum when I bought a ep4000 and dual Captivators. I checked the cable line and sure enough there was a huge difference between having the cable line plugged into my box and when I unplugged it. The hum was still there without the cable plugged in but MUCH better.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017I3K9M/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ended up buying this which helped a ton, a could only hear the hum when I put my ear right up next to the Cap driver once I used it. So, check your cable line and if a simialr thing happens to you this could be the solution for you.

I didn't mess with my cable last night but have tried disconnecting it in the past when troubleshooting the hum with my bfd. It had little/no impact with the bfd hum so I assumed it wouldn't impact the ep4000 either but guess it's worth testing. I almost bought that exact adapter from amazon for the bfd but didn't since I still got a hum with the cable unplugged all together. I was hoping the hum-x would be as effective with the amp as it is with the bfd... unfortunately it isn't.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I ran into the same problem. Roller marks show very easily with this finish. You just need to apply very even light pressure and make quick strokes. That sounded dirty. biggrin.gif

As far as the hum; I've run into the exact same problem. My subs run off my EP4000's has zero hum unless I'm calibrating the SMS which doesn't make sense. However my friend that I build a 15 for running off an EP2000 has a very distinct hum.

Weird thing is even my SVS had a very slight hum so it's not just a pro amp issue. I've been pretty lucky with avoiding ground loops and such so far.

I just moved to a new house recently. My old house had the ground loop hum so I was really hoping I wouldn't get a hum when I hooked everything up here... Unfortunately, I get the same hum I had at the old place. The hum isn't too bad so I can live with it but am hoping I can at least reduce it if not eliminate it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

Buy a wider roller. HD and Lowes both carry 18" wide rollers, don't forget you'll also need an adapter.

Funny you mention that bc I did some googling yesterday for 24" rollers. The widest I could find were the 18" so I'd still end up with a line on each side. I actually thought about using something else flat and wide to basically scrape the final cost of paint off with... maybe a wide squeegee that's used for floors. I might take a look at them at Lowes and see if I think it could be effective. Come to think of it, I just replaced a 26" windshield wiper blade... Maybe I'll try that on a piece of cardboard.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:12 PM
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What about dabbing it with a sponge?

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Old 02-28-2013, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Mrsmithers sent me this video for how to put on Duratex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuav56tGIE4

Check this video, I didn't watch it until after I posted it. He shows how to keep from getting roller marks.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:35 PM
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Looks nice. I know you will be happy with this sub. smile.gif Those flat pack kits are excellent, heck, they are even a good deal. I would have saved a lot of time if I would have just gotten one of those.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:15 AM
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Looks good! I'll be watching this thread carefully since I also have an Empire and I'm considering buying the exact same setup. Interested to hear your thoughts on the dual Daytons vs your Empire when it's all done.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

What about dabbing it with a sponge?

That crossed my mind but I want to minimize the texture and I imagine the sponge would result in more texture. Also, while it wouldn't result in roller lines, seems like I'd have lots of rectangular sponge marks which I wouldn't want either.

Ideally, I'd like a similar texture as to that on my Epiks. I have a good amount more texture than that now - which I'd be OK with if I could just eliminate the roller marks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Check this video, I didn't watch it until after I posted it. He shows how to keep from getting roller marks.

Thanks, watched it all the way through.... I definitely applied more pressure than he is when barely holding the roller with a couple fingers at the end. I'll try this technique on my next sub this weekend. If it goes well, I'll sand down the current sub good and try another coat or two on it. If I still get lines, I'll probably try the windshield wiper over the last coat like I mentioned above.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally have some free time to post an update on this project. I finished my 2nd sub last Saturday and spent a few hours Sunday calibrating everything. Still not entirely satisfied with the measurements so will mess around with eq/placement more at some point; but what I have is good enough for now.

I took more pictures during the build of the second sub.

I used Erich's 4cft flat packs which were great. The Harbor Freight clamps worked fine.


I used PL Premium for the 1st sub which worked but was a mess and took a lot of sanding to remove where it squeezed out of the seams. I decided to try Titebond II for the second one which I preferred over the PL Premium. I still used some PL Premium inside along the seams.


Assembled and sanded down.


Used drywall spackle along all the seams and was able to get them to disappear once painted.


Squares of cheap plywood glued down. I then drilled through both baffles and the plywood squares and inserted hurricane nuts in the plywood by tightening a bolt onto each and then removing it. It was a very tight fit getting the driver into the baffle but I didn't have any trouble with the hurricane nuts.


Sub #1



Sub #2


In my bonus room.



I used to have an Epik Empire and Legend where I've placed the Daytons. I've now moved the Legend about half way down the left wall.


The Empire is on the right wall, further back.


Here are measurements I've taken. All of these measurements are after running Audyssey XT32 and also EQing with my BFD. Blue is just the Epiks when I had them on the front wall corners - you can see they start to roll off at 20hz. Red is just the Daytons - not sure what to make of this - there's a narrow null around 17hz but not sure where it's rolling off. Green is all 4 subs in the locations from my pictures above - not as flat as I'd like... there's a null around 75db, a dip at 25hz, and a few bumps that I couldn't resolve. I think it's relatively "flat" down to maybe 15hz with some decent output to 12hz. I can tell from listening to it that I'm definitely able to play lower than I have before. I'm very happy with the sound of the Daytons. Not sure how to describe it but it's maybe a fuller sound than the Epiks and I definitely have more of the tactile impact I was looking for. If I can't get the response improved with my BFD, I'll probably buy a minidsp and see what that can do for me. This was a fun project and satisfying result.....I can see how some of you get into DIY.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, and I still never got the Duratex on as smooth as I'd like and still ended up with roller lines; but I think this box ended up better than the first. I did try going over it with an old windshield wiper as I mentioned early - it didn't work at all. I have plenty of Duratex left so one day might sand the boxes down a bit a try more coats with a different type of roller.

As far as the EP4000 hum I mentioned earlier - it's very subtle and I don't even notice it when listening. Don't think I'm going to worry about it.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:28 PM
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Thin out your duratex with a little water, about 5% or so, it will make the finish finer and make sure you are using smooth foam rollers. Let the duratex setup for a a minute or 2 after you roll it on and it will leave less roller marks when it's just starting to setup. Thining it out is recommended by them for a smoother finish as well.

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Old 03-13-2013, 05:07 AM
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Great build, benunc!
I will try N8DOGG's thinning recommendation and let you know via my build thread if that's the ticket to lead us to the holy grail of ideal DuraTex application.
Thanks, N8DOGG.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried adding a little water to the Duratex for my first sub. Wasn't sure what ratio to use so might not have added enough to make a difference. I did use a foam roller too. For the second sub, I just dipped the roller directly into the paint can as shown on the video carp posted above so did not add water.

Blah450, yeah let me know how your's turns out. If I think I can get a better finish, I'll sand mine down a bit and put another layer or so on. Still have plenty of Duratex left so it won't cost me anything but time.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:10 AM
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It was easier for me to not have roller marks when I used a 1/4 nap roller than with the foam roller. With the foam roller it wouldn't rotate when I tried to do the last light smoothing out part, with the nap roller the roller continues to roll even with very light pressure.

I was in a rush so I only did one coat, but I have some mickey mouse ears black paint that I used as touch up in a couple places and it worked fine. I need to hit a few more spots, and like you said I can always go back and do another coat of Duratex if I want to.
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