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post #541 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:18 PM
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Ah jeez, you had to go there???? ok, perhaps

Airy?
Hollow?
Stale?
Blah-ish?
Funky?
Silly?
Fresh?

Very uncouth of me... even though I know you are kidding

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post #542 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:24 PM
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I don't know... Honky kimda sounds racist to me bro.

Dude, not cool. You owe me a new keyboard. Or at least one that isn't covered in Dew. biggrin.gif

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post #543 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I don't know... Honky kimda sounds racist to me bro.

Dude, not cool. You owe me a new keyboard. Or at least one that isn't covered in Dew. biggrin.gif

WTH are you drinking the nectar of the Gods at 10:30 for? Ok you are few hours behind I guess, but still!!!!

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post #544 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:40 PM
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WTH are you drinking the nectar of the Gods at 10:30 for? Ok you are few hours behind I guess, but still!!!!

I'm freaking nocturnal. It's only 8:40 here; about 5 hours from me winding down. Not sure all the sugar has anything to do with it, lol.

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post #545 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:45 PM
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Hmm, if I were a prognosticator, I might say it could, but wth, I still had a DMD in my cupholder at 8:40, I was getting done with a 6 hours drive however, so gotta keep the eyes on the road. I am nocturnal as well, but it doesn't take Dew to get me there unfortunately, it just happens.

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post #546 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:47 PM
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WTH are you drinking the nectar of the Gods at 10:30 for? Ok you are few hours behind I guess, but still!!!!

Nectar of the Gods? I thought Mountain Dew was Nectar of the Tards. tongue.gif

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post #547 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:50 PM
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Nectar of the Gods? I thought Mountain Dew was Nectar of the Tards. tongue.gif

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I think all of you need to go here and take some time for personal inflection.



















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post #548 of 873 Old 03-31-2013, 07:53 PM
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You're a tard...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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post #549 of 873 Old 04-01-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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That dip between 200-500hz is right in the main vocal range...Do you see any loss there from a speech intelligibility standpoint? I think it might be a good thing overall if you don't notice it as that is still where some might think a flat curve would make the system sound a little more "honky" or something like that. Not sure of a good word to really use??

Interesting that you pointed this out. I've never had an issue hearing dialogue before until last night. We were watching the first episode of the new Game of Thrones season and the scenes north of the wall it was slightly hard to hear a few words here and there, it seemed there was too much bass in the voices which reduced the intelligibility a bit. My subs weren't hot enough for that to be the issue.

I think so much of what we hear is content dependent though, we can spend forever getting a flat response but if it's in the content there is nothing we can do. I think they just recorded some of those scenes with the mid/upper bass too high or something.

You do have me curious though, I'll try raising the 200-500hz range a bit and watch the scenes again... crap, I think I deleted the episode. I'm sure next week will have scenes north of the wall again though, I can try it then.
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post #550 of 873 Old 04-01-2013, 07:16 AM
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Sounds good, let me know what you find!

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post #551 of 873 Old 04-01-2013, 09:47 AM
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I think so much of what we hear is content dependent though, we can spend forever getting a flat response but if it's in the content there is nothing we can do.

This. x1,000

It's all in the mix.

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post #552 of 873 Old 04-04-2013, 04:06 PM
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Carp,

Thanks for the link to this thread. I can't believe I didn't know about it. Well maybe I can believe it since I have been so busy with my room (have not updated but will soon). And I will let you know when I build the false wall as requested (hopefully soon).

Build looks awesome. I have heard what the dual Dayton's of MrSmithers did in your room and I was impressed just like everyone else there. Now I want to hear what 8 of these are like. I think you owe us a demo!

I would love to have some curves saved so we can switch between flat and house curve and various levels of hot. Now that we have access to an incredibly capable ULF system we can do some cool experiments with our subjective preferences.

I read through most of the thread and I think I will reiterate what a few others said about any further upgrades involving treating the room and doing bass traps and taking care of the time domain to make sure you don't have excessive decay in your room. Headroom is certainly not something you need to worry about.

Great stuff.......and did I mention it was demo time? I put the kids to bed at 8. Just sayin!
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post #553 of 873 Old 04-04-2013, 04:12 PM
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Scott,

I just noticed that your avatar is Jeremy Clarkson! Very funny and I remember that episode too! Top Gear is my favorite show. Love cars. Love comedy. Love........alright you get the point.

I was disappointed to find that someone in KS already has the personalized license plate "THESTIG".

Ok, sorry for OT but just had to comment.
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post #554 of 873 Old 04-04-2013, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Carp,

Thanks for the link to this thread. I can't believe I didn't know about it. Well maybe I can believe it since I have been so busy with my room (have not updated but will soon). And I will let you know when I build the false wall as requested (hopefully soon).

Build looks awesome. I have heard what the dual Dayton's of MrSmithers did in your room and I was impressed just like everyone else there. Now I want to hear what 8 of these are like. I think you owe us a demo!

I would love to have some curves saved so we can switch between flat and house curve and various levels of hot. Now that we have access to an incredibly capable ULF system we can do some cool experiments with our subjective preferences.

I read through most of the thread and I think I will reiterate what a few others said about any further upgrades involving treating the room and doing bass traps and taking care of the time domain to make sure you don't have excessive decay in your room. Headroom is certainly not something you need to worry about.

Great stuff.......and did I mention it was demo time? I put the kids to bed at 8. Just sayin!

I'm not surprised you missed it... building a room and 3 little kids one of them a baby - whew!!! eek.gif

I really want to have a GTG and have everyone over again. I was about to send out a mass PM to everyone at the beginning of the week for this Saturday but my wife informed me I have plans. I'm crazy busy myself this time of year with track. Most weeks I have 3 meets and on the days there aren't meets there is practice of course. I leave the house at 6:00 am and usually get home around 6:30 on a practice day and much later on meet days. I don't have an open Saturday as far as family plans go until the 27th, which is good because that is David's GTG in Iowa and I'm going.

I may have to push it back to when school is over, possibly a Friday in may. I'm bummed about that, I love having you guys over.

As soon as the summer gets here it's nothing but daddy day care - piece of cake now days with the girls being 4 and 7 - and free time. We'll have to have another GTG with a lot of beer, last time was a blast. Just keep me away from the bleach. And the remote if I get too crazy. smile.gif
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post #555 of 873 Old 04-04-2013, 06:34 PM
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Ha!
I can wait........Barely!

Just let me know when.

I will bring the non grain alcohol if I can find out what that is!
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post #556 of 873 Old 04-08-2013, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got around to watching a full movie with my wife. We watched Skyfall and I really liked it, had some great audio. I looked at the CV amp from time to time during bass heavy scenes and the -10db light was barely flickering.

So for normal movie watching I have a ridiculous amount of headroom.

Sound quality is so nice too, I noticed it again tonight watching Game of Thrones. My system has never sounded better, it's awesome. We watched the whole episode at reference, not that it means much since it's on tv and not a Blu-Ray, but still it sounded great. That intro music was goose-bumps city.

I have to say a big thank you to Kevin (Mrsmithers) for building me a minidsp box with 2 inputs and 4 outputs and also he tracked down the cause of my hum that the minidsp introduced.

The plan now is to have the amp out in the room for a bit longer until I have a real good idea where limits are for demos. However, I'm not too worried about it, seems like if I clip the amp too much it either trips the breaker or I can hear slight distress in the subs. Either way I don't think I can do too much damage to anything.
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post #557 of 873 Old 04-09-2013, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Finally got around to watching a full movie with my wife. We watched Skyfall and I really liked it, had some great audio. I looked at the CV amp from time to time during bass heavy scenes and the -10db light was barely flickering.

So for normal movie watching I have a ridiculous amount of headroom.

Sound quality is so nice too, I noticed it again tonight watching Game of Thrones. My system has never sounded better, it's awesome. We watched the whole episode at reference, not that it means much since it's on tv and not a Blu-Ray, but still it sounded great. That intro music was goose-bumps city.

I have to say a big thank you to Kevin (Mrsmithers) for building me a minidsp box with 2 inputs and 4 outputs and also he tracked down the cause of my hum that the minidsp introduced.

The plan now is to have the amp out in the room for a bit longer until I have a real good idea where limits are for demos. However, I'm not too worried about it, seems like if I clip the amp too much it either trips the breaker or I can hear slight distress in the subs. Either way I don't think I can do too much damage to anything.

Are you getting a voltage drop?

I have yet to exceed 40amps at 120volts. But the voltage doesn't sag in my sub-panel EVER, it remains at 120volts (I'll have to double check that to be 100% sure).
I have 9 amplifiers between two hot wires and it only makes brief bursts beyond 25amps, up to 30amps. With all the subs at near xmech.
But most of my stuff is Class-D switcher's in the 70-90% efficient range. So maybe that's why... those big-iron amps are like 50%, no?

Maybe both of your amps are on the same leg too, that would make things worse? eek.gif
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post #558 of 873 Old 04-09-2013, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you getting a voltage drop?

I have yet to exceed 40amps at 120volts. But the voltage doesn't sag in my sub-panel EVER, it remains at 120volts (I'll have to double check that to be 100% sure).
I have 9 amplifiers between two hot wires and it only makes brief bursts beyond 25amps, up to 30amps. With all the subs at near xmech.
But most of my stuff is Class-D switcher's in the 70-90% efficient range. So maybe that's why... those big-iron amps are like 50%, no?

Maybe both of your amps are on the same leg too, that would make things worse? eek.gif

I don't know if I'm getting a voltage drop or not, I don't know how to test that.

I do know that the 2 times I've tripped a breaker I was using a relay and when I don't use the relay I haven't tripped a breaker. I only heard distressed sounds in the subs once, and I was clipping pretty hard (not using the relay) and it was the sound of the amp being pushed too hard and not the drivers I'm sure.

I'm not worried if the relay caused the issue because I've pushed the amp very hard while using the relay quite a few times and only twice I've tripped the breaker, and these are levels I would never go to unless I'm doing a demo or testing limits. So, I figure I'll just plug the amp straight into the wall when I'm really pushing things but for normal movie/music which is the vast majority of the time, I'll use the relay so that it's an easy on/off of the amp.

I only have 1 amp powering all 8 subs, 4 on each channel which gives me 625 watts per sub in 4 cu ft boxes and the SI drivers are rated for 600 watts in a 6ft enclosure so I think I'm good there. The amp is on it's own dedicated 20 amp line that I recently had installed and all the rest of my components are on the other dedicated 20 amp line.
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post #559 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I recently integrated the mbm-12 using the minidsp.

I have always had a dip at 100hz at my LP no matter what the crossover is, or if I try speakers no subs etc. Well, that is finally fixed with using the mbm. You would think that would mean I could locate it or hear it but I can't, I just get tactile feel. I already get tactile feel from the octo subs so now it's just a matter of what mood I'm in because sometimes it's too much tactile feel in which case I just mute the mbm output on the minisdp.

The minidsp allows me to set the delay independently for the mbm, which is great because neither 0 nor 180 on the phase knob integrated the mbm-12 with the mains. 180 was better but not that great. Now I have a smooth graph and all is well.

It's so nice man, for all those years I craved a sound like this. The subs alone with no mbm give me better tactile feel than i ever had before but it's nice to know I can switch on the mbm when I'm really in the mood for it. Right now I'm about 50/50 in regards to running the mbm. Those that know me know I REALLY like tactile feel so that's saying a lot if sometimes there is too much. Never thought I'd have that! smile.gif



Also, this past weekend I moved the CV 5000 amp into the laundry room which is behind the left wall when facing the screen. AHHHHH so nice not to hear the amp anymore.

Side note, I've gotten into the habit of unplugging everything when thunderstorms are in the forecast and I'll be gone all day. Best case scenario if I were hit is insurance would cover cost of my gear (not even sure if I'd get full value, I'm not sure how it works)... but I'll be damned if I'm building these 8 subs again. So, better safe than sorry. My sub amp is plugged into 1 dedicated 20 amp line and all the components are on the other one so I'll I have to do is unplug those 2 and I'm good - and I unhook the direct tv coax cable input from my box.
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post #560 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 09:22 AM
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Bass bins.

You need more.

You want more.

You must have more.

You will build more.


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post #561 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 10:30 AM
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carpe diem, what frequency response is your mbm producing run all by itself? any chance you have a sweep of it by itself?

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post #562 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 11:27 AM
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I've moved some of my system to merge with another system in place. With the 8) SIs I had a cliff dive at 55hz or so. My nearfield mbm solution: 2) 15hz native tune passive captivators. Talk about tactile and it totally helped to level the response. I still have a dip from 80 to 140 which won't go away with fiddling with the Mains or raising the subs. I've contemplated doing a split lfe for the SIs in conjunction with 4) td15x that I have. I'd have to address the back of the room after that. I'm excited tho as it keeps getting better. I finally got the FP14k to flicker in the orange playing the ending scene on how to train your dragon. I also got the cones moving and the glass flexing on the acadia door smile.gif
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post #563 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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carpe diem, what frequency response is your mbm producing run all by itself? any chance you have a sweep of it by itself?

Yes on my home computer, I'll post it later.
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post #564 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I've moved some of my system to merge with another system in place. With the 8) SIs I had a cliff dive at 55hz or so. My nearfield mbm solution: 2) 15hz native tune passive captivators. Talk about tactile and it totally helped to level the response. I still have a dip from 80 to 140 which won't go away with fiddling with the Mains or raising the subs. I've contemplated doing a split lfe for the SIs in conjunction with 4) td15x that I have. I'd have to address the back of the room after that. I'm excited tho as it keeps getting better. I finally got the FP14k to flicker in the orange playing the ending scene on how to train your dragon. I also got the cones moving and the glass flexing on the acadia door smile.gif

Oh god man, I used to own dual Caps. That would be crazy tactile feel nearfield!! Are they right behind your seat? I found with the mbm-12 that it didn't do anything for me at all until I put it right behind my seat and then wow. Then, getting it dialed in as far as distance settings with the minidsp made it blend even better.

Dual caps right behind you?! Awesome. Those subs have such amazing tactile feel especially around 20hz. Uzi fire must be incredible. biggrin.gif
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post #565 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Here you go LTD, blue line is subs and speakers mbm turned off. Red line is mbm and speakers with subs turned off.

[/URL]
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post #566 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey!!! What the hell!! My numbers changed to 5 db increments, nice. They have been doing 10 with snapshots even though i use 5 for all my graphs. Well, I'm not sure how that happened since I didn't change any settings.
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post #567 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 02:05 PM
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have you messed around with the phase/distance of the octo's and crossover points set between the Noesis and the subs? I would venture to say you could get that dip to disappear with the right settings, but I know you have been changing a WHOLE lot of settings so you may have already tried to cover this smile.gif

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post #568 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 02:18 PM
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have you messed around with the phase/distance of the octo's and crossover points set between the Noesis and the subs? I would venture to say you could get that dip to disappear with the right settings, but I know you have been changing a WHOLE lot of settings so you may have already tried to cover this smile.gif

yeah, not sure how many inputs your using on the minidsp, but have you tried flipping the phase on them to see if that drop disappears?

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post #569 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Oh god man, I used to own dual Caps. That would be crazy tactile feel nearfield!! Are they right behind your seat? I found with the mbm-12 that it didn't do anything for me at all until I put it right behind my seat and then wow. Then, getting it dialed in as far as distance settings with the minidsp made it blend even better.

Dual caps right behind you?! Awesome. Those subs have such amazing tactile feel especially around 20hz. Uzi fire must be incredible. biggrin.gif
The couch is a big sectional so I have one firing directly into the side of the first seat a few inches away. The other one is more towards where the couch starts to curve. The impact is ridiculous. It actually startled me when watching the Dark Knight Rises, I wasn't prepared for the impact when it hit during one scene in particular. The caps also survived the hulk and httyd. Those both have infrasonics that I thought would cause some bottoming out but no issue. I think being so close it's just not working as hard and being tuned to 15hz. It still sounds/feels good with just the SIs but the nearfield caps are just abusive!
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post #570 of 873 Old 04-17-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

have you messed around with the phase/distance of the octo's and crossover points set between the Noesis and the subs? I would venture to say you could get that dip to disappear with the right settings, but I know you have been changing a WHOLE lot of settings so you may have already tried to cover this smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

yeah, not sure how many inputs your using on the minidsp, but have you tried flipping the phase on them to see if that drop disappears?




Yes, I tried many different distance settings on the subs using the minidsp and that 100hz dip was still there. Using no smoothing at all it's a huge dip, very narrow but dips way down.

I'll experiment more though, it's fun to play with the minidsp settings.

I have 2 inputs and 4 outputs on the minidsp and as far as distance settings I can change each independently from 0 to 7.5 ms or any .1 in between, as well as inverting the signal.
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