First build - Octo SI 18's with flat packs. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I hope this isn't too redundant since I know a lot of guys are using the new SI's or Dayton 18's but I figured I'd do a thread anyway. I have no idea what I am doing, thankfully mrsmithers is helping me a out a ton.

I'm going with 8 separate boxes for my 8 SI drivers. I thought about going dual opposed but I wanted maximum flexibility for placement in my room and I wanted to use flat packs and these were available before a dual opposed box. These are so nice, packed very well, and I'm very glad I decided to go with the flat packs.

Here are 8 of them, 7 stacked and out first glued box. We are going to go all the way through with one sub until it's completed and then do more of an assembly line kind of thing with the rest of them.





Here is our work area in my garage, the box is next to Kevin's SEOS center channel he is working on.





Here is the room the subs will be in, put my 4 year old in the picture for scale. She liked to dress up like Merida... or any other princess for that matter.




Here are my drivers.



Here is the amp I'll be using to power all 8 subs. I'm not going to keep it in the rack, it's too loud and I don't want to do a fan mod. Instead I'll just keep in in the laundry room and have it connected to my receiver through the 12 volt trigger thanks to Kevin's (mrsmithers) help.






I had 2 dedicated 20 amp lines run a couple of weeks ago, had to go outside the house and back into the laudry room next to my HT room. You can see into my room through the rack. Ahhh, beautiful spaghetti - but who cares since it's out of sight. I don't know how I did it all those years with no access to the back of the components. You can see the 2 new 20 amp outlets on the left side.




Here are the possible placements I'm going to try:

4 stacked floor to ceiling behind each main speaker. I have 22 inches right now between my mains and the tri traps in the corner, so I'll have to move the mains out just a bit to give the drivers room to breath. I could take out the tri traps and then I could fit the 4 subs stacked much easier but I don't want to do that. I plan on selling the Submersive in the picture, already sold my other Submersive to get the project going.







I also might put 2 in the corners and put 4 under the screen, or 2 on each side of the center channel.





I also could put a sub or 2 next to the couch where the end table is.



Or a sub or 2 in between my equipment rack and book case - and cover part of the bleach stains. smile.gif



I might move the dumbbell rack over to the right and put one in between the couch and rack.



In between the chair and bench.




Or a combination of all of the above, who knows. I'm going to take omnimic measurements and write down subjective comments from any and all placements and go with what I like best - I have a suspicion that I'm going to end up with 4 stacked in each front corner.

I also plan on getting a minidsp.

Today I plan on spakling/sanding and then putting on the duratex on the first box and then put in the driver, feet, terminals either tonight or tomorrow and fire it up - once again, with much help from Kevin - thanks man! smile.gif
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post #2 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 09:40 AM
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So how did you like the first box? Did it go together okay?

I made up some directions of the assembly order I thought was easiest. I just need to type up some info under each photo. Is this the way you did it?

STEP #1 and #2:



STEP #3 and #4:



STEP #5 and #6:

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post #3 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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It went great - love it. I've never done any DIY before so this has been a very good first experience. Fits together so nice!!

We only messed up one part, we did all the sides before putting the inner front baffle on and then had a little bit of a tough time getting that fit in between the 2 sides but it went fine. We figured out that we needed to do that front inner baffle just like you show in step 4 above.

We are using brad nails instead of clamping every thing. With 8 boxes to do it would take forever clamping. We just clamp, nail, remove clamp, clamp something else, nail, repeat. So fast this way.
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post #4 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 10:15 AM
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Front stage looks legit man! The octo addition should seal the deal.
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post #5 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 10:46 AM
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FINALLY a build thread!! *SUBSCRIBED*
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post #6 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 10:57 AM
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seems a shame to try and bunch them all up at the front. with eight of them, you should scatter them around as much as possible imo. maybe four up front and the rest around the room? one under each surround?

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post #7 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

seems a shame to try and bunch them all up at the front. with eight of them, you should scatter them around as much as possible imo. maybe four up front and the rest around the room? one under each surround?

There are only two channels of amplification. This likely means that the subs would have to be grouped in two sets with all subs in each set sharing the same EQ/gain/delay settings.
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post #8 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

There are only two channels of amplification. This likely means that the subs would have to be grouped in two sets with all subs in each set sharing the same EQ/gain/delay settings.

How about 2 stacked in each front corner and 2 stacked under each side surround? Have one channel for the up front subs and one for the side/rear of the room subs?

Either way I'm going to try everything before settling on a final placement.
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post #9 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 12:22 PM
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Carp, good lookin' out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

There are only two channels of amplification. This likely means that the subs would have to be grouped in two sets with all subs in each set sharing the same EQ/gain/delay settings.

That would be the conventional wisdom, sure.

However wink.gif experimentation rules the day. The prudent approach is dedicated power for as many locations (up to about four) as one can muster. But I'm thinking if Carp identifies which axial direction possesses the most influential dominance, then positions the subs on each side/each end ... of that centerline. That way, via selective mode cancelation, the modal issues in that axis are minimized. That may mean front-to-back, side-to-side, even corner to opposite corner placement may be best. You'll be fine with just the two channels of tweakability.

Also, aesthetics and practical considerations enter into the equation as well. I'm thinking I'd try a spread across the front, and the remaining four spread across the back (two in each rear corner maybe), would adress both width, and depth modes. The two amp EQ'able amp channels could align levels and arrival time to properly match the subs as a group to the mains. Keeping the memebrs of each of the two sub groups essentially equidistant from the LP, you'll be fine.

This should be quite interesting. Be mindful, you'd likely benefit a great deal from as much additional bass damping as you could aesthetically handle. A gorgeous cloud system, an entire rear wall system.

This is becoming quite the potent rig, damn ... I'd like to experience it.


Thanks for sharing, this will be one to watch. What EQ tools will you employ?
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post #10 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 12:26 PM
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This is going to be fun! Will definitely be following along.smile.gif
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post #11 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

So how did you like the first box? Did it go together okay?

I made up some directions of the assembly order I thought was easiest. I just need to type up some info under each photo. Is this the way you did it?

STEP #1 and #2:



STEP #3 and #4:



STEP #5 and #6:


Erich, thats exactly how i did mine, worked perfectly as well. Pretty much that order will work for all the flatpacks. with an inner baffle. the 0.6 CUFT you can do both sides at once pretty easily, and if you were adventurous you could do top/bot and sides together
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post #12 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 12:41 PM
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More SI build threads are always welcome! Your room is going to be silly with 8 SIs and 3 Noesis'!
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post #13 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Carp, good lookin' out.
That would be the conventional wisdom, sure.

However wink.gif experimentation rules the day. The prudent approach is dedicated power for as many locations (up to about four) as one can muster. But I'm thinking if Carp identifies which axial direction possesses the most influential dominance, then positions the subs on each side/each end ... of that centerline. That way, via selective mode cancelation, the modal issues in that axis are minimized. That may mean front-to-back, side-to-side, even corner to opposite corner placement may be best. You'll be fine with just the two channels of tweakability.

Also, aesthetics and practical considerations enter into the equation as well. I'm thinking I'd try a spread across the front, and the remaining four spread across the back (two in each rear corner maybe), would adress both width, and depth modes. The two amp EQ'able amp channels could align levels and arrival time to properly match the subs as a group to the mains. Keeping the memebrs of each of the two sub groups essentially equidistant from the LP, you'll be fine.

This should be quite interesting. Be mindful, you'd likely benefit a great deal from as much additional bass damping as you could aesthetically handle. A gorgeous cloud system, an entire rear wall system.

This is becoming quite the potent rig, damn ... I'd like to experience it.


Thanks for sharing, this will be one to watch. What EQ tools will you employ?

That is what I did. Three across the front and one in each rear corner. Each sub in the group is real close to equal distance from the main listening position. This is because my screen is curved and the subs up front follow the curve. Front three, one group and back two the second group. Makes it easy to work with.

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post #14 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Carp, good lookin' out.
That would be the conventional wisdom, sure.

However wink.gif experimentation rules the day. The prudent approach is dedicated power for as many locations (up to about four) as one can muster. But I'm thinking if Carp identifies which axial direction possesses the most influential dominance, then positions the subs on each side/each end ... of that centerline. That way, via selective mode cancelation, the modal issues in that axis are minimized. That may mean front-to-back, side-to-side, even corner to opposite corner placement may be best. You'll be fine with just the two channels of tweakability.

Also, aesthetics and practical considerations enter into the equation as well. I'm thinking I'd try a spread across the front, and the remaining four spread across the back (two in each rear corner maybe), would adress both width, and depth modes. The two amp EQ'able amp channels could align levels and arrival time to properly match the subs as a group to the mains. Keeping the memebrs of each of the two sub groups essentially equidistant from the LP, you'll be fine.

This should be quite interesting. Be mindful, you'd likely benefit a great deal from as much additional bass damping as you could aesthetically handle. A gorgeous cloud system, an entire rear wall system.

This is becoming quite the potent rig, damn ... I'd like to experience it.


Thanks for sharing, this will be one to watch. What EQ tools will you employ?


Thanks, nice to see you here and thanks to you and everyone else for the advice and comments. I'm going to get a minidsp I'm pretty sure. I can't really do rear corners in my room, one corner is the stair case and the other is my desktop computer desk which can't really go anywhere else. I can go about 6 feet from the back wall along the side wall though. If I do that the subs along the side wall will be much closer to me than the subs up front though.

Luke, you were talking about maybe getting something else for dsp right?
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post #15 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

So how did you like the first box? Did it go together okay?

I made up some directions of the assembly order I thought was easiest. I just need to type up some info under each photo. Is this the way you did it?

STEP #1 and #2:



STEP #3 and #4:



STEP #5 and #6:


Erich, this is the first opportunity I've had to see or work with your flat packs. Absolutely OUTSTANDING. I'm not at all surprised given the quality and effort you've put towards everything else (including stuff other people ignore, like packaging) but it was very welcome. I'm not gonna lie, part of me has been dreading the day when carp finally got all his stuff. Eight boxes is still a task but with these flatpacks I think it'll take 4 boxes or so before it feels like we've really done one. Aside from the cuts being excellent as you'd expect from a CNC you can definitely tell a lot of thought went into the entire effort.

The only comment I have is that, in my opinion, putting one of the long sides on before the two short sides makes some sense. If you put the short sides on and don't get the exactly correct side to side (which is fairly easy to do, but still is a point where someone could make a mistake) then the long side either won't go on at all or there will be a gap. If you put the long side on first it gives the short sides something to nest against. Then the only thing you can screw up is the side to side of the longer piece which isn't any harder or easier to mess up than the shorter piece, the difference being it won't affect any of the other pieces. I think that's splitting hairs a bit and up to personal preference though.

As carp said, the biggest thing we should've done different is put the side on last instead of the baffle. I dunno what I was thinking there. Also, protip for anyone who's never used a nailer before, there's a dummy hole in your brad nailer where you can see if you're running very low on nails. It's there for a reason, use it tongue.gif It turns out nailing goes much more successfully when, you know, you actually have nails.
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post #16 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so I'm not sure I'm going to catch the DIY builders bug/addiction that has been running rampant lately. smile.gif I just did the interior gluing with that PL Pro stuff. Gotta say, not too much fun especially trying to get the front baffle where it's almost impossible to see. I did get my head in their with a flashlight and looks like all parts are covered. Kevin told me not to worry about the bracing part, so next box will be easier.

I went a little overboard with the spackle perhaps?





Yeah, things got a little messy and out of control with the PL glue. I don't mind showing the warts in my build since I've never done this and am clueless.

Oh, btw, to complicate matters I drug my mbm-12 out of storage a couple of months ago and have been using it. I don't know if I will continue to or not when I get all the subs in the room.



Unrelated but what the hell, I got in some sledding today too.





Good time, but I'm so sick of the snow.
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post #17 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 02:37 PM
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Yes! Good to see your build kicking off and to see some progress. A huge +1 from me on spreading the subs out, including the back of the room. biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 02:54 PM
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Yeaaaahhh!

 

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post #19 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 03:02 PM
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You should probably sand down the edges before adding any filler or spackling. biggrin.gif You really wouldn't need hardly any, maybe none at all.
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post #20 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahhhh good to know. That will save me a ton on spackle. smile.gif
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post #21 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 03:16 PM
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Erich is single handily responsible for the hear loss of a generation of AVS members smile.gif Subscribed.
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post #22 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Erich are you sending my driver soon? I can't be stuck with a measly 7 subs, oh the horror! biggrin.gif
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post #23 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmithers View Post

The only comment I have is that, in my opinion, putting one of the long sides on before the two short sides makes some sense. If you put the short sides on and don't get the exactly correct side to side (which is fairly easy to do, but still is a point where someone could make a mistake) then the long side either won't go on at all or there will be a gap. If you put the long side on first it gives the short sides something to nest against. Then the only thing you can screw up is the side to side of the longer piece which isn't any harder or easier to mess up than the shorter piece, the difference being it won't affect any of the other pieces. I think that's splitting hairs a bit and up to personal preference though.

Thanks for the nice comments about the flat packs. I'm really glad they turned out the way they did and I hope everyone likes them.......and leaves good reviews. You're right, it may not look like it, but a lot of time was spent to get them to assemble easily. Quite a few prototypes were cut to finally come up with the new models. Every time I made a trip to the CNC company telling them to cut a new idea, they thought it wasn't needed (after the 2nd attempt). But once they dry fit the last design together, even they were impressed with how easy it had gotten.

About your assembly suggestion. I can see what you mean, but the top and bottom should line up with the inner rabbet joints just like the braces do. So if you can keep the braces lined up, then the top and bottom panels shouldn't be any different because they all line up between the rabbet joints. Plus, you would then have to put glue on a vertical joint (the first side panel's rabbet). One thing I tried to do was keep people from having to put wood glue vertically on too many pieces. So if the first 2 steps are followed the way I mention, you can dry fit the side, trace where the braces, top, and bottom will touch it, lay the side panel down, add glue inside your traces, then put it in place......no glue running down a vertical edge before you get things lined up and ready.


When you have time, could you leave a review on the site. It's always nice seeing those after shipping things out. I think I've packaged about 1000 things in the past year, but people rarely remember to leave a comment about what they ordered. A review helps make it worth while. biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 03:27 PM
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Erich are you sending my driver soon? I can't be stuck with a measly 7 subs, oh the horror! biggrin.gif

Yes, it's still here. I'll get it packaged up and shipped at the beginning of next week. I have to ship back an A&E 12" woofer as well. If you don't hear from me on Monday, send a reminder. Don't worry, I didn't let anyone hook it up or do anything else with it. It was only used to test fit the woofer cut out. We made the cut outs a little bigger because that rubber gasket can be hard to fit a tight circle because it shifts around a little.


Those big chunks of styrofoam come in handy don't they? biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Yes, it's still here. I'll get it packaged up and shipped at the beginning of next week. I have to ship back an A&E 12" woofer as well. If you don't hear from me on Monday, send a reminder. Don't worry, I didn't let anyone hook it up or do anything else with it. It was only used to test fit the woofer cut out. We made the cut outs a little bigger because that rubber gasket can be hard to fit a tight circle because it shifts around a little.


Those big chunks of styrofoam come in handy don't they? biggrin.gif

Sure do! Crazy solid too. I'll write a review for sure too, your flat packs are so nice. I can't imagine doing this without them. Thanks so much for a great product at a unreal price.

Well, I have 3 of the 6 sides painted. I'm rotating so that I'm always painting the top, so now I need to let it dry before I put a painted side on the floor.
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post #26 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Done with the duratex for the first box. Like others have said, it's pretty cool stuff but also hard not to show streaks. I think it streaks less when you really load it up and put it on thick like it shows in the youtube video.




I've done one coat, I don't see any reason to do any more.
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post #27 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

seems a shame to try and bunch them all up at the front. with eight of them, you should scatter them around as much as possible imo. maybe four up front and the rest around the room? one under each surround?

no he needs 8 moar!!! wink.gif


Make sure you don't get that sub too close to your computer on the back side of your room. The magnet can affect the harddrives. If you have an old CRT monitor or CRT TV - walk within about 3 feet of that tv with one of those 18" driver and I bet it'll rainbow up on you. A computer hard-drive is written with magnets - you can erase or corrupt data if you get too close. Probably keep them at least a foot or two away and you should be fine.

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post #28 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 09:36 PM
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But you also have nice little boxes to do. biggrin.gif

I too noticed the streaks show less when loading it on there but I also need to be conservative while applying it as I only had a little under a gallon to do the two huge enclosures and was unsure how quickly I would use it up.

Your first one is looking good.
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post #29 of 876 Old 03-02-2013, 11:14 PM
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"nice and little" as opposed to ...
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post #30 of 876 Old 03-03-2013, 04:54 AM
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Awesome Carp!! 8 of those bad boys with your new Noesis are going to be great! You may not think you're going to catch the bug yet, but you will by the time your done...you'll be trying to think up the next project before you finish I bet.
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