Interest in FTW 21's? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 39 Old 03-12-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 238
I was texting Mark today and he's thinking about bringing the FTW 21's back. How many of you guys would be interested if he decided to bring them back? Depending on actual commitment, he's thinking if he can get enough guys willing to drop some $, it would be viable to bring them back.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 Old 03-12-2013, 08:44 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
I'll be honest, a high-ish priced 21" is going to be a niche product no matter what.

But damnit, I sure would like one. smile.gif

I'm willing to believe that there will be a a positive general interest in them though how many will be purchased? It's hard to say. Imho, Mark should have these around. It's a product almost nobody provides. However it's a risk/reward from his PoV and he will have to figure that for himself and if it can be brought back without losing money if it doesn't sell well. What is working in his favor is it doesn't have to be developed. It already existed so bringing it back is just a matter of materials and production.

I say bring em back!

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #3 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 05:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 135
I might be interested in buying a couple. How much do they usually go for? How do they perform compared to 18" drivers from the likes of Dayton and Stereo Integrity?
Martycool007 is online now  
post #4 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 06:15 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It's a product almost nobody provides.

Is there any high excursion 21s offered currently?

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #5 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 06:23 AM
Senior Member
 
ozziedog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gravette, Ar.
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I think before he should worry about the FTW he should ensure that he is able to constantly remain in stock on his other drivers. Right now he only has 1 driver in-stock ( The Phallus ) and 3 drivers out of stock and have been out for quit some time. You should worry about the core of your business before rushing to expand it. The FTW will never be what keeps him in business.

Also what would be different then last time? He discontinued it for a reason, has anything changed?

That being said, I have to agree with Scott there will always be a small market for the 21's but it will always be a small market. However he would be the only one on the market offering these. So, if he could keep a small amount of these in stock without hampering his ability to keep in stock on his other drivers and is able to make a profit then yes he should consider it.

This is just my 2 cents though.

I work in retail and we look at being out of stock as not only lost sales now but it tarnishes your customer image and will cause you lost sales later also. With so many companies going under (av123, Elemental Designs, etc) people are getting weary about ordering from ID companies especially when they are new to this and all they see is he is out of stock on almost everything. I have been lurking around long enough that I know his reputation and trust there will not be an issue with Mark, but that is not the case with everyone else.
ozziedog is offline  
post #6 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 09:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East side of NW Cascades
Posts: 2,478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 285
I might be interested in another 2 21's.
I'm looking to replace my rear subs with something beefier than 15's...
BassThatHz is online now  
post #7 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 09:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,820
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 378
Man I wanted 4 of those bad last summer!!!

I'm curious, how would you guys say that 8 SI drivers compare to 4 of those? I was thinking about 4 of the FTW's. In the end I'm probably better off with 18's just because 21's are so hard to come by. They just look so damn cool though. smile.gif
carp is online now  
post #8 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 09:36 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Is there any high excursion 21s offered currently?

I guess I should have worded my post a bit better.

By that I meant that there are at times high excursion 21's on market but never consistently and most recently it was IST. There was the Exodus but .... well, you know. There are some odd balls like the MTX Jackhammer which I think is a 22" or 24" driver. I can't remember and I don't know where one could buy one. Not sure if I can think of any others but my mind is still booting up. What I mean is to recognize that others have brought a similar product but for equally brief time. It wouldn't be true or fair to other manufacturers for me to have said, 'nobody has offered a product like this'. If that makes sense. redface.gif

I still think Resonant Engineering should make a 21" version of the XXX. Seriously.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #9 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 09:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 394
What are the T/s parameters and how much do they cost? It would depend on the cost per performance to me.
MKtheater is online now  
post #10 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 09:48 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Mach5 FTW-21

FS: 19.7hz
Re: 3.2ohm
Qms: 8.56
Qes: .40
Sd: 1640cm2
Vas: 499.9l
Xmax: 34mm
Le: 5mH????<--not sure
Pe: 1,200w


James, I think I remember them costing about $700 or more (shipped) to those of us that live in the US.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #11 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 10:16 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 394
I need the BL, spl, and MMS.
MKtheater is online now  
post #12 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 10:19 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Oh, right.... WinISD can't figure those out on it's own. rolleyes.gif And it calls itself a computer program. tongue.gif

BL: 22.24
MMS: 493.39g
SPL @1w1m: 91.6dB
SPL @2.83 Vrms 1m: 95.5dB

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #13 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 10:31 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Thanks Scott, yeah I am familiar with all you mentioned, similarly, I wasn't aware of any real offerings ... and just curious as I'm not up on it as I feel others are.

Absolutely, RE should offer up a real bass pump, ie;..a 21" or so behemoth. Seriously.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #14 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 10:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozziedog View Post

I think before he should worry about the FTW he should ensure that he is able to constantly remain in stock on his other drivers. Right now he only has 1 driver in-stock ( The Phallus ) and 3 drivers out of stock and have been out for quit some time. You should worry about the core of your business before rushing to expand it. The FTW will never be what keeps him in business.

+1

I would have jumped on 15" model had it been available. No matter when I check out his site its always out of stock or coming soon. Same deal with Obsidian and SI, long wait times and out of stock. I say either keep the stuff instock and keep more than you think you might need till the next build shipment or don't even bother and close up.

His IXL15/18s would probably be his bread and butter money makers with the 21 as a "halo" product. It does no good to have nothing instock.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #15 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 10:52 AM
Member
 
fish323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'd be interested in a pair, but the OOS status of most of his other drivers makes me nervous. Incriminator Audio offers a 21" sub in one or two of their lines. I've been emailing back & forth with them trying to get a one-off 21" sub built using their Flatlyne (underhung) series. It's been a tedious process.
fish323 is offline  
post #16 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 12:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
21's are the niche market of the DIY niche market so the demand is probably minuscule. It would probably be in Marks best interest to do a pre-order sale for these with a specified time limit. If he gets the amount of orders he needs to make the build make sense then he goes ahead, if not then all the deposit money gets refunded and no build.

Like Scott I would like one but then again I want one of every sub, probably just like Scott biggrin.gif

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is online now  
post #17 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 01:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 394
I modeled both this FTW-21 vs a RE XXX 18 both in a huge LLT. The RE is about $850. Here is one pair vs one pair:

MKtheater is online now  
post #18 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 02:30 PM
Member
 
Dezmond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WNY
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Bl seams a little low for a 21. Is it the same motor as in the 18 ?
Dezmond is offline  
post #19 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 02:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
Manic1!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I guess I should have worded my post a bit better.

e MTX Jackhammer which I think is a 22" or 24" driver. I can't remember and I don't know where one could buy one.

http://www.amazon.com/T9922-22-Audio-6000-Jackhammer-Subwoofer/dp/B001NJ4436

Act quick there are only 3 left!!!! Only $6500 each!!!
Manic1! is offline  
post #20 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 238
The only sub that is really out of stock is the UXL. I'm not sure why he hasn't taken down the IXL stuff but he hasn't made them in years. I know it sucks that he's out of stock on quite often but being a one man show and financing the business on his own, I'm sure just ordering a few hundred of everything then actually doing all the VC work and assembly etc takes big man hours. I know the cones are one issue with the UXL, they are very expensive and as far as I know, only one place makes them, so if they say "5 months" what else can he do? It's crappy but thats the way it is. I've already put my order in for 2 more if he brings them back.

Of course its a niche market, hell the whole DIY scene is a niche market. Most guys don't want to spend much on gear, not like a few years ago anyhow. It's a race to the bottom, who can make the cheapest, decent gear wins. Thats not a win for anyone since it will only be a repeated business model. Can you imagine if things were still made like in the 50's? instead of our "throw away" society? The drivers would be 200lbs and run of a nuke! hahaha

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
post #21 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 04:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
baniels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 52556
Posts: 999
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 42
I would like to see this available again. Even if it was a pay and wait game.
baniels is offline  
post #22 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 04:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Of course its a niche market, hell the whole DIY scene is a niche market.

I didn't really make my-self clear, 21" drivers are a niche market within an already tiny niche market that is DIY. DIY sub builds are mainly in the 15" to 18" range with 18" being the norm right now because of the recent offerings of lower priced 18" subs. Even when there were 21" subs available the sub builds were scarce compared to other sizes. It is a small market within a small market which doesn't seem worth it for Mark to pursue unless he gets a decent amount of pre-orders to cover him-self.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is online now  
post #23 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 06:59 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

21's are the niche market of the DIY niche market so the demand is probably minuscule. It would probably be in Marks best interest to do a pre-order sale for these with a specified time limit. If he gets the amount of orders he needs to make the build make sense then he goes ahead, if not then all the deposit money gets refunded and no build.

Like Scott I would like one but then again I want one of every sub, probably just like Scott biggrin.gif

Two of every sub. Two! biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmond View Post

Bl seams a little low for a 21. Is it the same motor as in the 18 ?

Yes, I believe it is the same motor off the UXL18.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #24 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 07:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia; now run by adults.
Posts: 5,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 41
If there were enough made so that Infrasonics in Australia also ordered some, I'd have another two. I'd also be willing to put up a deposit so that a number for a batch could be confirmed.
A9X-308 is offline  
post #25 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,579
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I didn't really make my-self clear, 21" drivers are a niche market within an already tiny niche market that is DIY. DIY sub builds are mainly in the 15" to 18" range with 18" being the norm right now because of the recent offerings of lower priced 18" subs. Even when there were 21" subs available the sub builds were scarce compared to other sizes. It is a small market within a small market which doesn't seem worth it for Mark to pursue unless he gets a decent amount of pre-orders to cover him-self.

Right but the reason the 15" and 18" are used so much is because for the most part, guys are buying multiple cheaper drivers like you said. I think quite a few people have the thinking that big drivers are slow etc. Of course we know it's not the case but the misconception will always be there. I for 1 hope he brings them back, he needs a few more options on his product line, plus I want a few more. IMO his FTW 21" and the mal-x 21" were easily my favorite HT drivers vs anything else I've ever owned. I guess we'll see what happends. Maybe he'll start some pre-orders or something....

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is online now  
post #26 of 39 Old 03-13-2013, 09:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mjaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Two of every sub. Two! biggrin.gif

What was I thinking confused.gif of course it is multiples, I am ashamed I mis-spoke biggrin.gif

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
mjaudio is online now  
post #27 of 39 Old 03-14-2013, 07:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 135
How do these 21" drivers perform?

Do they perform better than 18" drivers such as the UXL-18 or Dayton HO18 or SI18?
Martycool007 is online now  
post #28 of 39 Old 03-14-2013, 02:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East side of NW Cascades
Posts: 2,478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

How do these 21" drivers perform?
Do they perform better than 18" drivers such as the UXL-18 or Dayton HO18 or SI18?
The 21's beat the pants off the HO, SI and UXL. No question about it.

The only drivers that challenge the 21's are the RE-18's and LMS-18 (that I know of at least).
The LMS is more efficient in smaller boxes (23" cubed) and with slightly less THD (and probably power compression). At least IMO.
The RE-18 might be able to out-do both of them in an IB because of its excursion-headroom (you can play it louder without risk of dented metal cones etc).
BassThatHz is online now  
post #29 of 39 Old 03-15-2013, 06:45 PM
Member
 
whiskey_face's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/death-penalty-21-incriminator-audio-21-1500w-death-penalty-series.html

heres another high(ish) xmax 21. cant comment on the sound quality though, I think these are more geared towards SPL burps.
whiskey_face is offline  
post #30 of 39 Old 03-15-2013, 10:08 PM
Member
 
Dezmond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WNY
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have been drooling over these bad boys, check out the bl .

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=286
Dezmond is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off