Need help buying wood working tools on a budget - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking a saw that I can use for just about everything including DIY subs. I was thinking of a 12" compound miter saw with a budget of up to 250$ or so.

I was looking at these three guys:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_157783-67702-C12FDH_0__?productId=1037899&Ntt=compound+miter+saw+with+laser&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcompound%2Bmiter%2Bsaw%2Bwith%2Blaser&facetInfo=

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100384715?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=12%22+compound+miter+saw&storeId=10051&N=25ecodZ5yc1v&R=100384715#.UUYx9Bw4tch

There was a 12" Ryobi that I liked best at Home Depot but its not online for some reason.

Also, I'd like recommendations on a router that's around 150$ or so.

I'm really looking forward to getting into this and a lot of other household projects. I may even make a head and foot board for our king size bed if I get good at this stuff! smile.gif

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post #2 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 04:31 PM
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Nice gear. But what do you plan to do with them that a 10" can't do?
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 04:45 PM
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I have that dewalt saw. I have been happy with it, and I've used it a lot for various non-speaker projects, but apart from cutting interior braces to length, I've hardly used it at all for sub and speaker projects. A circular saw with DIY straight edge guide (instructions on YouTube) would be more useful for speaker projects. A router and/or jigsaw are also useful.

-Max
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 05:44 PM
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The most frequent tool used in my shop is the table saw. Keep your eyes in your local Craigslist. They pop up all the time as they are so big an bulky no one wants to move one when they do. You will need a truck, tools to take apart and a strong friend. Yes you can use a DIY saw guide but I like to use my saw. On the road I use a Rigid Job site table saw.

I'm using a refurbished Rigid Router it comes with two bases and is at your price point.

http://www.toolsnow.com/Ridgid_ZRR29302_2HP_Plunge_Fixed_Base_Router_p/6189.htm
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post #5 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 05:53 PM
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Besides my table saw, plunge router & portable router table, I have a 12" compound miter saw for 12 years and use it for countless projects.
(and so many other tools, when Sears closed their many tool stores 5-6 years ago I bought 4-5 bench tools at over 50% savings)

However, a 10" sliding compound miter saw would have given much more flexibility for cutting wide boards.....consider that as alternative to 12" compound miter saw.
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post #6 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxcooper View Post

I have that dewalt saw. I have been happy with it, and I've used it a lot for various non-speaker projects, but apart from cutting interior braces to length, I've hardly used it at all for sub and speaker projects. A circular saw with DIY straight edge guide (instructions on YouTube) would be more useful for speaker projects. A router and/or jigsaw are also useful.

-Max

Max, what sort of non speaker related projects have you used the miter saw for?

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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

The most frequent tool used in my shop is the table saw. Keep your eyes in your local Craigslist. They pop up all the time as they are so big an bulky no one wants to move one when they do. You will need a truck, tools to take apart and a strong friend. Yes you can use a DIY saw guide but I like to use my saw. On the road I use a Rigid Job site table saw.

I'm using a refurbished Rigid Router it comes with two bases and is at your price point.

http://www.toolsnow.com/Ridgid_ZRR29302_2HP_Plunge_Fixed_Base_Router_p/6189.htm

I was just looking at some of your projects. If its good enough for you, its good enough for me. Thanks, I'll get it. I'd love to get a table saw but my garage isn't big enough and the basement is carpeted. So I was thinking of something I could put up and away when not in use

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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Besides my table saw, plunge router & portable router table, I have a 12" compound miter saw for 12 years and use it for countless projects.
(and so many other tools, when Sears closed their many tool stores 5-6 years ago I bought 4-5 bench tools at over 50% savings)

However, a 10" sliding compound miter saw would have given much more flexibility for cutting wide boards.....consider that as alternative to 12" compound miter saw.

I've looked at some sliding saws today and came to the same conclusion.

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post #7 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

Nice gear. But what do you plan to do with them that a 10" can't do?

Very good point. I just want to cover all my bases and not have a bunch of saws. There is this rubix cube subwoofer project someone did that really impressed me. Those little squares were done on a miter.

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post #8 of 25 Old 03-17-2013, 10:48 PM
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Compound miter saws have limited use when building speakers. Now - for adding trim to a house, there is no better tool for the job. Add a small compressor and a brad nailer, and you're set. Ripping and crosscutting? They're not the right tool.

I used to use a table saw, and though I still have one, I rarely use it. For years, I have cut all my sheet stock with a circular saw and a guide. Before I bought the good guide system, a shop-build set served me well for years. With a decent (even shop-made) guide, a $80 circular saw will do nearly all of the ripping and crosscutting you'll need for most projects.

As far as routers? I like my Rigid 29302, but it appears that it is no longer available. However, there is a Craftsman set that appears to be a near clone, and costs a bit less than I paid. No, it is no Bosch, but for hobby use, it should last a good while.
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post #9 of 25 Old 03-18-2013, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleatusCat View Post

Max, what sort of non speaker related projects have you used the miter saw for?

A workbench. A table. A talking unicorn. Cut some aluminum blinds. Made some sawhorses. Cut some ABS pipe to make an acid bath for stripping the zinc off EMT tubing to prepare it for welding. Made a stand for cleaning a pool filter out of 2x4s. Other random home maintenance stuff. It is really useful, and I'm glad I bought it, but I don't use it that much for speaker projects. However, I have used it to cut port tubes and various internal braces for speakers, and it was handy for that -- the fact that it makes square cuts is convenient for port tubes, for instance.

If you are looking for the most useful stuff for speaker building, I mostly use my circular saw / Eurekazone track for cutting up plywood sheets, and a router with a Jasper circle jig for cutting driver holes, recesses, and roundovers. You can DIY a guide to cut straight lines with a circular saw -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH5dW-QcgeI. You can make your own circle jig for a router, too, or use one that comes in your router, but the Jasper one is really easy to use (all the holes are pre-drilled) and is worth the $40 if there is space in the budget. You can also cut driver holes with a jigsaw, but you need a router if you want to cut recesses and do roundovers. And a shop vac. You definitely need a shop vac.

I described some of my tool purchases in my first DIY thread on here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1327401/ready-to-diy-starting-with-a-tht-low-profile-sub

-Max
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-19-2013, 07:36 AM
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I'm not sure where you're located but if you have a Woodcraft store local they probably still have some of these guides in the store for 79.99/set. I like these better than the makeshift tracksaws for the money and ease of use/setup.
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2020556/29150/3piece-bora-clamp-edge-tool-guide-set.aspx

I like this circular saw for the price
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041K36JC/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This router if you want handheld and get a Jasper circle jig and some good bits(Frued, Whiteside, CMT)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005RHPD/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can't say I've ever used my miter saw for cutting sheet goods and with the above guides I don't even use my table saw for that. I'm a one man show and find it unnecessarily difficult to hoist a large sheet up on the table saw, much less guide it across straight.

The above should keep you under your budget until you start buying router bits. You'll find tons of things you can do with these tools once you have them. I spend more time making doll furniture for my daughter and real furniture for my wife than I do making things for my self.

Build a table/bench and save for some GREAT clamps, not just ones that will get the job done.
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-19-2013, 07:04 PM
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Listen to this man. If you're going to get a table saw, I'd shoot for a cast iron top. I have the Ridgid jobsite saw as well. It's not a bad saw.


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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

The most frequent tool used in my shop is the table saw. Keep your eyes in your local Craigslist. They pop up all the time as they are so big an bulky no one wants to move one when they do. You will need a truck, tools to take apart and a strong friend. Yes you can use a DIY saw guide but I like to use my saw. On the road I use a Rigid Job site table saw.

I'm using a refurbished Rigid Router it comes with two bases and is at your price point.

http://www.toolsnow.com/Ridgid_ZRR29302_2HP_Plunge_Fixed_Base_Router_p/6189.htm

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post #12 of 25 Old 03-19-2013, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys! I'm pass on the table saw as I simply don't have enough room in the garage or proper ventalation in the carpeted basement. smile.gif

I see a lot of votes for the Bosch 1617 router. A coworker is offering http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1619EVS-4-Horsepower-Variable-Collets/dp/B000051WRZ to me for 100$ barely used. It looks a bit heavy compared to the 1617 and the Rigid that BigmouthDC posted. Most of the use will probably be out of table.

So far the plan is to go with a circular saw and a router for now and get the 40$ carbide bit set from Amazon.

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post #13 of 25 Old 03-20-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1619EVS-4-Horsepower-Variable-Collets/dp/B000051WRZ

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post #14 of 25 Old 03-20-2013, 12:06 PM
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For speaker building, I'd take a look at the new track saw just released by Grizzly: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Track-Saw/T10687
You can get the saw and two 55" rails for under $300. Much safer for cutting down sheetgoods than a tablesaw, and much more accurate than a circular saw with a homemade guide.
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-20-2013, 12:21 PM
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I like this quite, light and super accurate slider. It slides on four instead of the usual two rails thereby increasing accuracy. It also cuts @ 6000 rpm. No need for earplugs with this unit.



http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LS0714-2-Inch-Sliding-Compound/dp/B000AU1VJE/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1363806222&sr=1-4&keywords=makita+sliding+compound+miter+saw

I also use this track saw. No need for a large tablesaw if you have this rig.. Much cheaper than the Festool and I was impressed with the quality of construction. Built in England.
http://www.amazon.com/Makita-SP6000K1-2-Inch-Plunge-Circular/dp/B000UYTKG6/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1363806709&sr=1-5&keywords=track+saw


Look around for reconditioned units. I've had good luck with them; they perform as new.
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post #16 of 25 Old 03-20-2013, 01:28 PM
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That Grizzly track saw looks like a good deal. I'm interested in buying the track...I hope it's compatible with the Makita. BTW its not in stock yet.
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post #17 of 25 Old 03-20-2013, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys,

I ordered the Bosch 1617EVS, Porter Cable PC15TCSMK circular and the MLCS 15 piece router bit set up from amazon. smile.gif

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post #18 of 25 Old 03-20-2013, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajacat View Post

That Grizzly track saw looks like a good deal. I'm interested in buying the track...I hope it's compatible with the Makita. BTW its not in stock yet.

That grizzly does look like a great deal. However, I think each track saw system has their own nonstandard tracks, so I would do a lot of research before buying a track from one manufacturer and expecting it to work with the saw from another track system.

Edit: I just read that makita and festool tracks are generally compatible, so maybe the grizzly track is more compatible than I thought.

-Max
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post #19 of 25 Old 03-24-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys, I'm going to need a bunch of clamps. Any recommendations?

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post #20 of 25 Old 03-24-2013, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleatusCat View Post

Guys, I'm going to need a bunch of clamps. Any recommendations?

i use these from Home Depot

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Jorgensen-24-in-Heavy-Duty-Bar-Clamp-3724-HD/100159936#.UU-PpzsrKS8

have a bunch of different lengths

if you want to spend more the various "parallel Clamps" and "pipe clamps" are better but may not be worth it depending on what you are doing. For speakers the cheaper bar clamps will be fine but if you want to get into serious carpentry, better clamps are worth it
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post #21 of 25 Old 03-24-2013, 04:48 PM
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"You can never have too many clamps."

Norm, This Old House

All you really need are C-clamps and pipe clamps. Others will make life simpler, but aren't necessary. The nice thing about pipe clamps is that if you need a different size, you can just change the pipe.

If you plan to use them a lot, I recommend quality goods like Adjustable. If they will see limited use, you can probably get by with Harbor Freight. Their C-clamps and pipe clamps are OK, if not up to Adjustable quality. Their bar clamps don't seem to be so good, though.
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post #22 of 25 Old 03-25-2013, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I will set my eyes on pipe clamps then. smile.gif

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post #23 of 25 Old 03-25-2013, 09:07 PM
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I have some pipe clamps, but I mostly use bar clamps when gluing up speaker boxes. The bar clamps are much easier to handle and plenty strong. You generally don't need much clamping force, as you just need to hold the parts in place while the glue dries. Here's an example of a bar clamp, though I actually use cheaper ones from harbor freight. It seems that hf doesn't sell them anymore, though. "Denali" brand clamps, which are available on amazon, are one cheap alternative:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000FA0BMC/ref=mw_dp_sim_ss4?pi=SL500_SY125

-Max
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post #24 of 25 Old 03-25-2013, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking of bar clamps due to them probably having a lot more clamping force for less money. I'm actually planning possibly gluing heavy pieces together for a headboard. eek.gif

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post #25 of 25 Old 03-26-2013, 01:35 PM
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The problem with the F-style clamps is that they tend to push the wood to one side or another. I like the parallel clamps and even the bar clamps. both of which tend to push in a straight line and the parts don't want to slide as you tighten the clamp. Bessey or Jorgensen are among the best right now IMO.
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